WINNER: NCAA College Hoops 2011-12 — Nate the Great

[flexmaster33]

nice breakdown agent, and thanks for the heads up on the MAC bracket...that has been updated.

Part of the problem is that the full-MAC didn't fill up, so it's kind of a hybrid mix this year.

[reptile]

Just a question flex, i am currently ranked #71. Do conference tournament games at the end of the season count towards rpi?

Since March Madness only includes 64 teams i am concerned that my 5-1 vs the top 25 and 4th place finish in the 3rd toughest conference will be enough.

[flexmaster33]

The RPI is only part of what the selection committee takes into account, and yes RPI #s can change through the conference tourneys.

[agentcom]

nice breakdown agent, and thanks for the heads up on the MAC bracket...that has been updated.

Part of the problem is that the full-MAC didn't fill up, so it's kind of a hybrid mix this year.

Yep, I realized that's we don't have the full 12 teams, but I figured that you'd be using the same tourney format. It's a pretty interesting tournament structure and it's new for this year's tourney. I didn't even know that was the format until I started looking into it to write that piece. It took me forever to write it (partly because I didn't notice at first that the Kent-N. Ill. game had finished, so I was trying to figure out now a 3-way tie might play out). It was a coincidence that you were doing a major update while I was writing it, so I didn't notice the new stuff until I had submitted the post.

[TheKidsTrumpet]

nice breakdown agent, and thanks for the heads up on the MAC bracket...that has been updated.

Part of the problem is that the full-MAC didn't fill up, so it's kind of a hybrid mix this year.

Yep, I realized that's we don't have the full 12 teams, but I figured that you'd be using the same tourney format. It's a pretty interesting tournament structure and it's new for this year's tourney. I didn't even know that was the format until I started looking into it to write that piece. It took me forever to write it (partly because I didn't notice at first that the Kent-N. Ill. game had finished, so I was trying to figure out now a 3-way tie might play out). It was a coincidence that you were doing a major update while I was writing it, so I didn't notice the new stuff until I had submitted the post.

Really enjoyed reading all of that agentcom. Thanks for the write up.

[flexmaster33]

ughh...this season has been my worst, and now I'm officially the first out after San Diego got its first win of the season — against my Pilots in the WCC tourney opener. Well played series ?!?!?! ... guess, now the rest of the teams can get my full attention!!!

Hoping for a U of P resurgence in 2012-13...if I'm not fired in the off-season

[agentcom]

ughh...this season has been my worst, and now I'm officially the first out after San Diego got its first win of the season — against my Pilots in the WCC tourney opener. Well played series ?!?!?! ... guess, now the rest of the teams can get my full attention!!!

Hoping for a U of P resurgence in 2012-13...if I'm not fired in the off-season

Hey flex, I got this funny feeling that you won't be fired from your own tourney

But seriously, does this mean your out for good? No chance of getting any attention from the selection "committee"? BTW, I assume the selection committee is you, working mostly the RPI, but making some adjustments based on what you think are weaknesses in the RPI formula. Would that be accurate?

[flexmaster33]

in the past, I've invited several other coaches to help out, but yes, in the end it's me making final say based on a variety of factors...placing in league, RPI #, quality wins, etc. And yes, just like the real life tourney, there are always people that think they should be in who aren't or ones that thought they'd be seeded higher. Just part of the real March Madness.

And yes, I'm out for this year...first time I won't make either tourney...my record was the worst I've ever had this season.

68 teams make it out of 150 or whatever it is...so about the top 40 percent get to the dance...the next 32 get a chance in the NIT consolation tourney, so even teams with some losing records will get into that bracket.

[agentcom]

nice breakdown agent, and thanks for the heads up on the MAC bracket...that has been updated.

Part of the problem is that the full-MAC didn't fill up, so it's kind of a hybrid mix this year.

Yep, I realized that's we don't have the full 12 teams, but I figured that you'd be using the same tourney format. It's a pretty interesting tournament structure and it's new for this year's tourney. I didn't even know that was the format until I started looking into it to write that piece. It took me forever to write it (partly because I didn't notice at first that the Kent-N. Ill. game had finished, so I was trying to figure out now a 3-way tie might play out). It was a coincidence that you were doing a major update while I was writing it, so I didn't notice the new stuff until I had submitted the post.

Really enjoyed reading all of that agentcom. Thanks for the write up.

Haha, I'm glad someone enjoyed it, cuz I spent a bit of time on it. Not really sure anyone would be interested in it except you, me, serbia and machrs. But it was fun to write and I never knew that the MAC conference tourney was played that way. The winner of the MAC conference tourney is guaranteed a #4 (at least) ranking in one of the regional tournies. So it's kind of important for both of us. First of all, congrats on clinching the MAC and second of all, I think regardless of the conference tourney both of us have pretty strong claims to make it to the dance regardless. So, I wish you luck in the tourney.

As an aside, kidstrumpet and I have started our game together (even before I wrote that post) and it seems like I'll take the game because I lucked out and got 3 first turns. Basically, I got REALLY lucky and B.G. will have to get even more lucky to win that game at this point. I'm certainly not complaining, but it's a little unfortunate that the match-up between the #1 and the likely #2 team in the MAC won't be a little more competitive.

Another spoiler alert, but today I took a Round 8 victory against K-State. He's ahead in one of the other games, and I'm ahead in the third game of the series, so it looks like I'll snag that #2 seed barring some bad luck. So ... I'm hoping that I'll see BG for that MAC title, but there's a couple of games in the interim that either of us could lose. No offense, trumpet, but BG is due for another conference loss pretty soon.

Hey flex, first round MAC games are usually played at the home school's site, while the rest (this year) will be at Quicken Loans Arena (Cleveland). Since there are only 7 teams in the MAC tourney rather than 12, there are really no "first round" games if you were to use the original conference format. If you consider the #6 v #7 game to be a "first round" game, which it kind of is, that would be played at the site of the #6 team. How is that gonna work out? More importantly for me, where are all the neutral site games going to be played? Since, none of the top 5 teams which I talked about in my write-up (BG, K-State, Me, E. Mich, Ohio) would really play at a home site in the actual MAC tourney, where is that neutral site going to be?

Spoiler alert #3: If I have time, I'd like to do a little MAC conference preview piece, which will certainly (again) talk about how Toledo doesn't do to well on the road, whether it's at a neutral site or an actual away game. As the #2 seed, if all games are played on the home court of the higher seed, I would think that my chances are better. Then my biggest challenge would be facing #1 BG on it's home court (where I've lost). A neutral site (like the actual MAC tourney) (maybe a regional or a randomly selected map) would be much worse news for me as I'm only 10-5 away from home this year. Of course, in reality, I think that this is mostly due to chance that I've lost a bunch of road games and had an impressive home record. But when I'm writing as if we're actually playing basketball, I like to talk like an ESPN analyst and talk about this sort of stuff. That's why I'm wondering.

Good luck to everyone in the conference tourneys and selection show! This has been a really fun tourney.

[flexmaster33]

For our purposes...the higher seed gets to play on its home court during the conference tournament phase. That gives a reward for the work put in during the 30-game regular season.

[ViperOverLord]

Butler Board Of Regents: Press Release

In recent days, Eastern Illinois lost it's coach and forfeited the remainder of its season. They were 1-1 versus the first place Butler Bulldogs and 0-1 versus the second place Wichita State Shockers with a final match-up between Witchita State and Eastern Illinois to be played on the final game of the season.

Eastern Illinois forfeited that final game and the Shockers were rewarded a share of the Missouri Valley Conference title (both teams finished with 15-3 conference records) and the number one seed in the conference tournament via a tie breaker. Consequently, Butler received the two seed in the conference tournament and lost the reasonable and expected opportunity to gain a solo share of the conference title and the top seed.

The University of Butler contends that Eastern Illinois should have finished the season or forfeited all conference games and not just the remaining conference games. In that event, Butler would have finished the season with the top seed and a full share of the conference championship.

If the preceding solution was found to be unacceptable to the NCAA or Wichita State then Butler also suggested an alternative; that the final Eastern Illinois game be played by the former coach or an interim coach. The NCAA in their apparent zeal to progress to the conference tournament disregarded the all contentions and solutions.

A Butler boycott of the Missouri Valley Conference Tournament was seriously discussed by the board of regents. The board has decided against such measures, deciding that the team, the conference, the fans, any and all associated parties, and Coach VOL should not be adversely affected further by this unfortunate situation.

The University Of Butler Board of Regents formally requests that should there be a final between Wichita State and Butler that it be played on a neutral court (Random or Classic). We deem that to be the most fair solution in the event of such a match-up.

[agentcom]

Butler Board Of Regents: Press Release

In recent days, Eastern Illinois lost it's coach and forfeited the remainder of its season. They were 1-1 versus the first place Butler Bulldogs and 0-1 versus the second place Wichita State Shockers with a final match-up between Witchita State and Eastern Illinois to be played on the final game of the season.

....

VOL, wouldn't it have only made a difference if E. Ill. had beaten Wichita State? That doesn't seem like it would have been very likely. Whereas, you do have a good chance of beating Wichita State. So, I'm not sure it would be fair to Wichita State to force them to play a game where they have a (roughly) 50% chance of losing that first place crown in place of a game where they had a much lower chance of losing. Not to mention that you're taking a home game away from them forcing them to play at a neutral site.

[flexmaster33]

I'm going to stand by my decision to issue forfeits in the case of deadbeats, leaving all of the conference tournaments seeded as they are. (If I were to change the rules in this case, I'd also have to revisit about half the leagues in the tourney).

Deadbeats drive me as crazy as anyone who devotes themselves to a tournament, but unfortunately we were hit by a rash of them this year. The reserves list was exhausted and new reserves only trickled in. Issuing forfeits is the most fair solution I could come to, especially since most of the deadbeats were losing the majority of their games anyway.

I do keep a list of deadbeats and will not allow them back into any of my future tourneys...hopefully this weeds out the problem in future years.

Good luck to all in the conference tourneys...March Madness is in the air.

[ViperOverLord]

Butler Board Of Regents: Press Release

In recent days, Eastern Illinois lost it's coach and forfeited the remainder of its season. They were 1-1 versus the first place Butler Bulldogs and 0-1 versus the second place Wichita State Shockers with a final match-up between Witchita State and Eastern Illinois to be played on the final game of the season.

....

VOL, wouldn't it have only made a difference if E. Ill. had beaten Wichita State? That doesn't seem like it would have been very likely. Whereas, you do have a good chance of beating Wichita State. So, I'm not sure it would be fair to Wichita State to force them to play a game where they have a (roughly) 50% chance of losing that first place crown in place of a game where they had a much lower chance of losing. Not to mention that you're taking a home game away from them forcing them to play at a neutral site.

- It wasn't likely when E. Illinois beat me at home but my dice crapped out on me when I had the game in check. That's why the games are played.

- "Forcing" someone to play their scheduled game? I think that's a better alternative to handing someone a one seed. Don't you? I don't want to play an entire season and then zero care is taken to finish the season right.

- "Taking" a home game away? I'm not taking anything. Wichita State didn't earn that home game. He can go beat E Illinois, win the one seed (with the tiebreaker) and then he'll have something to take. I won one more actual game (won the one seed by half a game). If anything, I'm having my home game taken. But I'm compromising and requesting a neutral site game. I think that is more than fair.

I'm going to stand by my decision to issue forfeits in the case of deadbeats, leaving all of the conference tournaments seeded as they are. (If I were to change the rules in this case, I'd also have to revisit about half the leagues in the tourney).

Deadbeats drive me as crazy as anyone who devotes themselves to a tournament, but unfortunately we were hit by a rash of them this year. The reserves list was exhausted and new reserves only trickled in. Issuing forfeits is the most fair solution I could come to, especially since most of the deadbeats were losing the majority of their games anyway.

I do keep a list of deadbeats and will not allow them back into any of my future tourneys...hopefully this weeds out the problem in future years.

Good luck to all in the conference tourneys...March Madness is in the air.

You didn't even have to change the rules (though one is probably merited). You just had to take care to find a replacement coach to finish the season so that you weren't handing a one seed and share of the conference tournament to someone for free. Nobody wants their conference title to end on a forfeit when it's completely avoidable. In any event, I'm calling for you to rectify a bad situation and declare that a potential conference championship between Butler and Wichita State be on a neutral court. I think that's more than fair, given that I did beat Wichita State by a half game in actual games played and that you could have avoided this situation by using a replacement coach.

[ubcman64]

I'm going to stand by my decision to issue forfeits in the case of deadbeats, leaving all of the conference tournaments seeded as they are. (If I were to change the rules in this case, I'd also have to revisit about half the leagues in the tourney).

Deadbeats drive me as crazy as anyone who devotes themselves to a tournament, but unfortunately we were hit by a rash of them this year. The reserves list was exhausted and new reserves only trickled in. Issuing forfeits is the most fair solution I could come to, especially since most of the deadbeats were losing the majority of their games anyway.

I do keep a list of deadbeats and will not allow them back into any of my future tourneys...hopefully this weeds out the problem in future years.

Good luck to all in the conference tourneys...March Madness is in the air.

You didn't even have to change the rules (though one is probably merited). You just had to take care to find a replacement coach to finish the season so that you weren't handing a one seed and share of the conference tournament to someone for free. Nobody wants their conference title to end on a forfeit when it's completely avoidable. In any event, I'm calling for you to rectify a bad situation and declare that a potential conference championship between Butler and Wichita State be on a neutral court. I think that's more than fair, given that I did beat Wichita State by a half game in actual games played and that you could have avoided this situation by using a replacement coach.

i think flex made it clear why he did what he did.