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Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:20 am

I reported an obvious case of secret diplomacy yesterday and provided the private message that proved secret diplomacy occurred. The powers at be, King Achilles, gave a warning. Who is King Achilles and why is he giving warnings when I have demonstrated a clear case of cheating? Secret diplomacy is the biggest violation of rules here and the perpetrator only gets a warning. What about a disqualification from the game at the very least?

How are these judgements made? I feel the enforcement of these violations are inadequate. I stuck my neck out and the perpetrator only got a warning. Does a warning really deter people from violating the rule of secret diplomacy when the cost/reward is obviously rigged in favor of violation?

I have a real issue with how this process was handled. If there are no consequences for secret diplomacy then there is no way to know if people are playing by the rules or not. There is nothing stopping people from making deals in private to advance their rankings.

This is lame. Look at Peruvian Boatman's ratings. He has been accused of secret diplomacy before and it is likely he is a habitual cheater but this is only the first time he has been caught. You give him a warning?

The Cheating and Abuse judges are weak. We need someone on the board that will give appropriate sentences and enforce the rules.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby GeneralRisk on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:26 am

It was the appropriate sentence because there are guidelines that King A must follow.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:42 am

It also says he should be blocked from playing. Doesn't that mean he has to forfeit the game? He is still playing the same game he cheated in.

The General Rule Enforcement Specifics are the following:


Secret Diplomacy
If you are found guilty of Secret Diplomacy, you will be blocked from playing with the other guilty parties for a duration of time, and will also face an escalation of Website Vacations if you continue to be found guilty of Secret Diplomacy.

Secret Diplomacy Infraction disciplinary levels are as follows:
Block and Warning,
Block and 1 Week Website Vacation,
Block and 1 Month Website Vacation,
Block and Account Inactivation.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:49 am

visgoths wrote:It also says he should be blocked from playing. Doesn't that mean he has to forfeit the game? He is still playing the same game he cheated in.

The General Rule Enforcement Specifics are the following:


Secret Diplomacy
If you are found guilty of Secret Diplomacy, you will be blocked from playing with the other guilty parties for a duration of time, and will also face an escalation of Website Vacations if you continue to be found guilty of Secret Diplomacy.

Secret Diplomacy Infraction disciplinary levels are as follows:
Block and Warning,
Block and 1 Week Website Vacation,
Block and 1 Month Website Vacation,
Block and Account Inactivation.


they do not forfeit single games.. also they will only block if there is enough to prove both players were involved....

like if a player pms me or walls me why should i be blocked from playing with him if i didnt act on it.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:54 am

I proved he cheated. I provided the PM that demonstrated clear SD. Hence, he should be blocked since as you say, it was proven he cheated. He should forfeit his game.

He sent me a SD message and I reported the PM. He should be blocked.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:09 am

did you act on it.. block is blocking him from playing with you.. you can do this by foeing him..
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:14 am

Moved to Questions & Answers
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:21 am

Secret Diplomacy
If you are found guilty of Secret Diplomacy, you will be blocked from playing with the other guilty parties for a duration of time, and will also face an escalation of Website Vacations if you continue to be found guilty of Secret Diplomacy.

Secret Diplomacy Infraction disciplinary levels are as follows:
Block and Warning,
Block and 1 Week Website Vacation,
Block and 1 Month Website Vacation,
Block and Account Inactivation.


The player was found guilty. It says they will be blocked from playing with the other guilty party.

In this case YOU received the pm and would be the other party, since you did not join in the secret diplomacy, you are not guilty (obviously) and therefore you are not blocked from the players games

You can "foe" the player and that would keep you guys from playing in the same games.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby deathcomesrippin on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:24 am

Being blocked is only in the case of two or more players participating in Secret Diplomacy. A block is put in place to stop them from using those tactics to assure a win for either one of them. When it is one person who is attempting SD, we don't just block them from playing you. You can do that simply by foeing them. As for a stricter set of guidelines, you quoted the rules yourself, and if you do not like them, then maybe you should post a suggestion in the Suggestions forum for a harsher set of punishments for Secret Diplomacy. If the player attempts it again, then there is the 1 week vacation.

The C&A forum is manned by volunteers and relies upon the community to report issues to us. We are all players as well as volunteers with the exception of King A, who has duties outside of just monitoring the C&A forum. That is our job. What we do not do is spend our whole days just trolling around looking for people who break the rules and punishing them. I, nor any of the other C&A mods, are paid for this, so there is no way you can expect us to simply just do that. The reports come in, we examine them as best we can, and then hand down our verdict. There is a record, so if it occurs again, we have the previous knowledge of it to use. If we spot something on our own, then that is fine and dandy, but even then we do not have the power to just willy-nilly hand out punishment. For quite a few of our cases, we will ask for opinions from other mods or those involved, weigh what has been said and the games they are about, and come to a call according to both the guidelines and past precedent. The fact that you believe this person to have broken the rules before or that he is a serial cheater is irrelevant. We don't go on witch hunts here, as much as some may say we do, nor do we stifle evidence simply because we are lame or weak. The sentence was appropriate. After the game, FAMO, then you will never have to worry about him attempting that again.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby deathcomesrippin on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:25 am

BG beat me to posting. Damn you. :P
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:27 am

He doesn't even have to forfeit in the game that he tried to cheat? This is so weak. If you look at his ratings he has been accused of cheating before. He is a habitual violator. I don't have it out for the guy - I just think the enforcement is weak considering how blatantly he was caught.

Secret Diplomacy is a major violation and yet the violator gets only a warning? This is so weak.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:40 am

How do you equate my reporting of a private message and secret diplomacy to trolling for violators? He cheated in a game i was playing, neither you or I were trolling. I made it very easy for you and the Cheating and Abuse Enforcement to see that there was a violation. I provided the private message that contained the Secret Diplomacy. This is not a witch hunt. You volunteered for this job so don't get defensive when you are criticized for your performance. I made it very easy for you enforcers to see that a violation occurred. If you did the appropriate due diligence you would go to his ratings and see he has been accused of this behavior before. It's really not going out of your way to do this - trust me, it takes two clicks of your mouse.

" The C&A forum is manned by volunteers and relies upon the community to report issues to us. We are all players as well as volunteers with the exception of King A, who has duties outside of just monitoring the C&A forum. That is our job. What we do not do is spend our whole days just trolling around looking for people who break the rules and punishing them. I, nor any of the other C&A mods, are paid for this, so there is no way you can expect us to simply just do that. The reports come in, we examine them as best we can, and then hand down our verdict. There is a record, so if it occurs again, we have the previous knowledge of it to use. If we spot something on our own, then that is fine and dandy, but even then we do not have the power to just willy-nilly hand out punishment. For quite a few of our cases, we will ask for opinions from other mods or those involved, weigh what has been said and the games they are about, and come to a call according to both the guidelines and past precedent. The fact that you believe this person to have broken the rules before or that he is a serial cheater is irrelevant. We don't go on witch hunts here, as much as some may say we do, nor do we stifle evidence simply because we are lame or weak. The sentence was appropriate. After the game, FAMO, then you will never have to worry about him attempting that again. "
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby eddie2 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:56 am

visgoths wrote:He doesn't even have to forfeit in the game that he [color=#FF0000]tried to cheat?[/color] This is so weak. If you look at his ratings he has been accused of cheating before. He is a habitual violator. I don't have it out for the guy - I just think the enforcement is weak considering how blatantly he was caught.

Secret Diplomacy is a major violation and yet the violator gets only a warning? This is so weak.


why are you even argueing the point he tried he did not get away with it.. next time he does it he will have a 1 week site ban.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:27 pm

I was responding to "deathcomerippin" post suggesting I was going out of my way to report violators. I don't know why he is a cheating and abuse moderator if he considers my report "trolling"? How is reporting someone cheating in a game I am playing who has sent me a SD Private message "trolling".

If he can't be bothered to take a clear violation seriously and he is so busy with his day job, why is he a volunteer?
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby Night Strike on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:51 pm

visgoths wrote: If he can't be bothered to take a clear violation seriously and he is so busy with his day job, why is he a volunteer?


How did he not deal with the clear violation? I thought warnings counted as dealing with the violations. The mods don't have the power to kick a player out of a single game. They can only kick out of all the games or none of the games. If you don't like the punishment scale, go make a suggestion to change it. As it stands, the violator WAS warned for his actions according the punishment scale already published.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby cookie0117 on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:05 pm

Put the key board down, go take a walk and cool down.

Then think about the fact that ratings are just tags you click, they are neither accurate or sometimes even appropiate. If someone clicks secret diplomacy but does not report anything, then its probably not secret diplomacy. Even then its a half assed accusation and that does not prove guilt.

The person received the punishment that everyone else would have received. As you were told if you think punishment is too weak, go to suggestions and sensibly and calmly suggest harsher punishments.

Cry and getting personal with people will lose you friends and is just childish. So take a chill pill and give the mods a break, they work to a set of rules on these cases, and we all know how upset people get when someone breaks the rules!!
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:17 pm

I am new to the enforcement process and I didn't realize there were set guidelines. Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby deathcomesrippin on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:55 pm

visgoths wrote:I was responding to "deathcomerippin" post suggesting I was going out of my way to report violators. I don't know why he is a cheating and abuse moderator if he considers my report "trolling"? How is reporting someone cheating in a game I am playing who has sent me a SD Private message "trolling".

If he can't be bothered to take a clear violation seriously and he is so busy with his day job, why is he a volunteer?


The C&A forum is manned by volunteers and relies upon the community to report issues to us. We are all players as well as volunteers with the exception of King A, who has duties outside of just monitoring the C&A forum. That is our job. What we do not do is spend our whole days just trolling around looking for people who break the rules and punishing them.



My comment was that WE do not go out of our way to find transgressors. In no way did I say you troll, maybe I should have emphasised the "we". If he cheated before, which you clearly believe, then the onus is not on us to attempt to catch past transgressions that go unreported. If you think I, or anyone, is going to pour over each game any one player may have played and look for possible SD in them, just because he did it this time, you are mistaken. If someone else comes forth, then he will be judged according to that case. Calm down, and read things for what they are. You weren't mentioned at all. If I felt you were trolling, I would have posted "visigoths, stop trolling" and been done with it. For the record, this was not my case, KA handled it. I just wanted to set you straight on the fact that this is the way it is done. Either deal with it or don't, but stop reading into things that aren't there.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:48 pm

Gosh, Cookie, we all aspire to be the cool headed gamer that you are....you're advice, Yoda-like. Do you have anymore great nuggets of advice? heh heh
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby Extreme Ways on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:52 pm

visgoths wrote:Gosh, Cookie, we all aspire to be the cool headed gamer that you are....you're advice, Yoda-like. Do you have anymore great nuggets of advice? heh heh

Was Yoda right?
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:54 pm

If you think cheating is no biggie - yeah, I guess so...
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby Night Strike on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:56 pm

visgoths wrote:If you think cheating is no biggie - yeah, I guess so...


No one in this thread thinks cheating "is no biggie". That's why warnings and then other punishments are handed out.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby visgoths on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:05 pm

"chill out", " take a deep breath" - I interpret those comments to reflect a sense that cheating is no big deal. We obviously differ on this translation if you are speaking for everyone except me in this thread. In most games when you are caught cheating you are disqualified so forgive me if my posts reflected my surprise that the offender was left off with just a warning. I understand now that there is a process and warnings are given for first time offenders. The people on the thread who feel differently are welcome to their opinions but shouldn't criticize or tell me to chill. We obviously have a different idea about what rules mean. I think the rules are soft on cheaters.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:10 pm

He's telling you to "chill out" because of the way you are acting, not bc cheating is no big deal.
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Re: Cheating & Abuse Enforcement

Postby BGtheBrain on Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:14 pm

Also, I noticed you were given all 1 star ratings from DBo and he says you were clueless.
By your own logic, one would assume that you are clueless, have a bad attitude, have poor gameplay, and your play is unfair.

The guy was warned, if he does it again he is punished further, following the guidelines.
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