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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:54 pm

let's get this stickied shall we?
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:57 am

Sports facilities and our savior cemeteries are completely surrounded by neutrals. They are basically an island for the first few turns (considering that neutrals are a real disincentive to attack). They are not the only island in the map, but they are the only one with an airport, thus making them the priest real estate on the map. Somehow, they should be connected to the main core of the map (there should not be a neutral in the way). Whether this is done by redrawing the connections so that our savior connects to ministry or central police, or by adding another connection, I am not sure.

In Amager, the average number of non-neutral beside a starting territory is 0.5. This part of the map is very closed-off in the early turns.
In North City, the average number of non-neutrals beside a starting territory is 3.2ish. This part of the map is wide open. Right now the barriers that are in place are all beside neutrals, which to me seems backwards as neutrals are a form of wall in and of themselves.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:03 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Sports facilities and our savior cemeteries are completely surrounded by neutrals. They are basically an island for the first few turns (considering that neutrals are a real disincentive to attack). They are not the only island in the map, but they are the only one with an airport, thus making them the priest real estate on the map. Somehow, they should be connected to the main core of the map (there should not be a neutral in the way). Whether this is done by redrawing the connections so that our savior connects to ministry or central police, or by adding another connection, I am not sure.

In Amager, the average number of non-neutral beside a starting territory is 0.5. This part of the map is very closed-off in the early turns.
In North City, the average number of non-neutrals beside a starting territory is 3.2ish. This part of the map is wide open. Right now the barriers that are in place are all beside neutrals, which to me seems backwards as neutrals are a form of wall in and of themselves.



I get your point regarding to Savior and Sports, moving the bridge from Christiania to Foring affairs could be a solution. My point of placment for Metros are that they must not be closer that one territs from a sigth, a combination colud be remove Metro on the Alloment garden along with moving the bridge.

That would open Amager up I think.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:48 am

Amager infrastructure changed so its not a hideout ;)

for impasables, take a look at the purple bonus area, how does roads look instead of the cones ?

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:41 am

The road looks 100 times better than the cones and fits with the map better.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:54 pm

isaiah40 wrote:The road looks 100 times better than the cones and fits with the map better.



I think so to, roads it is :D
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby crazymilkshake5 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:06 pm

Roads>Cones
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:48 pm

Roads are beautiful :) thanks for making the change. I understand what you mean about the metro stations, they seem fairly balanced now.
I guess its just a question of where to put roads.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:36 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Roads are beautiful :) thanks for making the change. I understand what you mean about the metro stations, they seem fairly balanced now.
I guess its just a question of where to put roads.

It's more a question of what to call the roads....:)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:09 am

Roads for impasables: ther location are set to make it less easy to get to a sigth by a metro.

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby iancanton on Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:21 pm

there are no tiny bonus zones in a corner. this makes the gameplay fairly easy to balance, which u've done well, except u haven't taken into account the metro stations.

the metro stations make this a very open map: every bonus zone can attack every other bonus zone except christianshavn. the bonuses just now are too low nearly everywhere. this means the preferred strategy in nearly every 1v1 game or team game is to kill the opposition, since u must assault neutrals if u try any other strategy. my bonus recommendations are below.

city north: up 3 from +5 to +8; this is the most difficult area to hold because of its 7 borders and central location.
city south: up 2 from +4 to +6; 15 regions are adjacent to this centrally-located bonus and only city north has more borders.
østerbro: up 1 from +4 to +5; larger than city south, balanced by having fewer connections and the langelinie +1.
amager: down 2 from +5 to +3; only 4 borders and edge location, plus it already includes the airport +1 and 2 metro stations for another +1.
vesterbro: up 1 from +4 to +5; similar to østerbro, except it has central station instead of langelinie.
nørrebro: up 1 from +3 to +4; similar to amager but smaller and without internal bonuses.
christianshavn: good at +3; only 3 borders.

the letters a, e and s in the legend font look very similar. try a different legend font?

ian. :)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:37 pm

iancanton wrote:there are no tiny bonus zones in a corner. this makes the gameplay fairly easy to balance, which u've done well, except u haven't taken into account the metro stations.

the metro stations make this a very open map: every bonus zone can attack every other bonus zone except christianshavn. the bonuses just now are too low nearly everywhere. this means the preferred strategy in nearly every 1v1 game or team game is to kill the opposition, since u must assault neutrals if u try any other strategy. my bonus recommendations are below.

city north: up 3 from +5 to +8; this is the most difficult area to hold because of its 7 borders and central location.
city south: up 2 from +4 to +6; 15 regions are adjacent to this centrally-located bonus and only city north has more borders.
østerbro: up 1 from +4 to +5; larger than city south, balanced by having fewer connections and the langelinie +1.
amager: down 2 from +5 to +3; only 4 borders and edge location, plus it already includes the airport +1 and 2 metro stations for another +1.
vesterbro: up 1 from +4 to +5; similar to østerbro, except it has central station instead of langelinie.
nørrebro: up 1 from +3 to +4; similar to amager but smaller and without internal bonuses.
christianshavn: good at +3; only 3 borders.

the letters a, e and s in the legend font look very similar. try a different legend font?

ian. :)


Thx ian :) the legen font was also only temp.

about the bonuses, your suggestion sounds fair, il update it ASAP
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:18 am

Flapcake wrote:Roads for impasables: ther location are set to make it less easy to get to a sigth by a metro.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Ok, that makes perfect sense. Should there be a standard "metro to sight" distance (mtsd) then?
I mean, the roads adjacent to Andersen and Botanical Gardens change what would normally be a mtsd of 1 to a mts distance of 2 (originally, you needed to capture 1 territory between metro and sight, now 2). This seems like the natural number to aim for.

The one at the Royal Theatre changes the mtsd from 2 to 3. While I agree that this Bonus region needs roads, that may not be the best place.

Osterport is a very powerful metro, as it has a mtsd of 1 to little mermaid (and the bonus behind little mermaid). Not only that, but by two seperate paths (citadel and Strand)!

Once again Amager is the most powerful though, as Casino has mtsd of 1, not only Christiana, but also to Tivoli. Furthermore, it has a distance of 1 to the two "open" bonuses. (the port is hidden behind a neutral).

The Enghave road is a special case. It doesn't change the mtsd, but it does put a necessary gap between metro And bonus. The mtsd for that metro is 1.

That is my analysis of the current road, metro and mtsd situation. Once again, I don't know the solution. A road between King's Garden and State Museum of Art might provide a choke point for people who prefer such things (I appreciate them). However, that is a mtsd-neutral change.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby Flapcake on Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:59 am

DoomYoshi wrote:
Flapcake wrote:Roads for impasables: ther location are set to make it less easy to get to a sigth by a metro.



Ok, that makes perfect sense. Should there be a standard "metro to sight" distance (mtsd) then?
I mean, the roads adjacent to Andersen and Botanical Gardens change what would normally be a mtsd of 1 to a mts distance of 2 (originally, you needed to capture 1 territory between metro and sight, now 2). This seems like the natural number to aim for.

The one at the Royal Theatre changes the mtsd from 2 to 3. While I agree that this Bonus region needs roads, that may not be the best place.

Osterport is a very powerful metro, as it has a mtsd of 1 to little mermaid (and the bonus behind little mermaid). Not only that, but by two seperate paths (citadel and Strand)!

Once again Amager is the most powerful though, as Casino has mtsd of 1, not only Christiana, but also to Tivoli. Furthermore, it has a distance of 1 to the two "open" bonuses. (the port is hidden behind a neutral).

The Enghave road is a special case. It doesn't change the mtsd, but it does put a necessary gap between metro And bonus. The mtsd for that metro is 1.

That is my analysis of the current road, metro and mtsd situation. Once again, I don't know the solution. A road between King's Garden and State Museum of Art might provide a choke point for people who prefer such things (I appreciate them). However, that is a mtsd-neutral change.


Hi DoomYoshi.
Thx for you analyze, I can see that you have takin your time study the structure of gameplay.

As the structure are set now, its only 3 sights that are "easy" to get, the 4 "HC andersen or/and amalienborg" got atleast 2 territs between. I dont want it to be "to" easy, a road could be added on østerport and strand boulevarden, disconnect citadel from østerport, road on tivoli and police, christiania and foreign affairs, move mtero war museum to waterpark. this way we are down to only enghave got 1 territs, it will damped the metro role in a quick win.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V5. 26/1 gameplay stamp ? pg.5

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:32 am

Flapcake wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
Flapcake wrote:Roads for impasables: ther location are set to make it less easy to get to a sigth by a metro.



Ok, that makes perfect sense. Should there be a standard "metro to sight" distance (mtsd) then?
I mean, the roads adjacent to Andersen and Botanical Gardens change what would normally be a mtsd of 1 to a mts distance of 2 (originally, you needed to capture 1 territory between metro and sight, now 2). This seems like the natural number to aim for.

The one at the Royal Theatre changes the mtsd from 2 to 3. While I agree that this Bonus region needs roads, that may not be the best place.

Osterport is a very powerful metro, as it has a mtsd of 1 to little mermaid (and the bonus behind little mermaid). Not only that, but by two seperate paths (citadel and Strand)!

Once again Amager is the most powerful though, as Casino has mtsd of 1, not only Christiana, but also to Tivoli. Furthermore, it has a distance of 1 to the two "open" bonuses. (the port is hidden behind a neutral).

The Enghave road is a special case. It doesn't change the mtsd, but it does put a necessary gap between metro And bonus. The mtsd for that metro is 1.

That is my analysis of the current road, metro and mtsd situation. Once again, I don't know the solution. A road between King's Garden and State Museum of Art might provide a choke point for people who prefer such things (I appreciate them). However, that is a mtsd-neutral change.


Hi DoomYoshi.
Thx for you analyze, I can see that you have takin your time study the structure of gameplay.

As the structure are set now, its only 3 sights that are "easy" to get, the 4 "HC andersen or/and amalienborg" got atleast 2 territs between. I dont want it to be "to" easy, a road could be added on østerport and strand boulevarden, disconnect citadel from østerport, road on tivoli and police, christiania and foreign affairs, move mtero war museum to waterpark. this way we are down to only enghave got 1 territs, it will damped the metro role in a quick win.


I totally forgot that you need 4 and it didn't occur to me that it was designed that 3 were easy to get. That makes perfect sense now. I like to analyze things. Unfortunately so many maps are basic, that all analysis was done years ago. On the other hand are maps that are too complicated for a rigorous analysis. This map is perfect in that I can look at everything in a period of 20 mins, but still interesting enough that I have to think about. I look forward to playing it by the way, and also to hopefully visit Copenhagen and actually see the sights.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V6. 03/01 gameplay stamp ? pg.6

Postby Flapcake on Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:57 pm

Ater suggestions by DoomYoshi and iancanton, I have come up with this. Now its only vesterbro that can reach a winning object at 1 territs, metros are not at any huge consern any more by a quick win, troop payment from bonuses are raised by iancanton suggestion. Title changed to a more readable font.

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 gameplay ? pg.7

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:23 pm

That is beautiful. I think what iancanton meant though was the legend itself, not the title. For example Osterbro could be misread as Oatarbro (since a, e and s look the same) if your computer has high enough resolution. I say gameplay stamp now.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 gameplay ? pg.7

Postby iancanton on Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:32 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:I think what iancanton meant though was the legend itself, not the title. For example Osterbro could be misread as Oatarbro (since a, e and s look the same)

correct! doomyoshi, thanks for ur work on spacing the metro stations.

the amager also needs to drop from +5 to +3. this is because the airport and two metro stations within amager already contribute +2.

ian. :)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 gameplay ? pg.7

Postby Flapcake on Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:12 pm

iancanton wrote:

the amager also needs to drop from +5 to +3.


Dohhhh, was also my intention to do :roll: changed at next update
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 gameplay ? pg.7

Postby Flapcake on Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:01 am

Changes: Amager drop from +5 to +3. Bonus font better readable now.

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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 gameplay ? pg.7

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:42 pm

Is King's Garden done with a lowercase or a capital K? It looks lowercase to me, might be typo, might just be the font.

Anyways, my work here is done.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 gameplay ? pg.7

Postby Flapcake on Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:17 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Is King's Garden done with a lowercase or a capital K? It looks lowercase to me, might be typo, might just be the font.

Anyways, my work here is done.



Hmm could be, but dont think so, goin to concentrate more on graphics when gameplay are in place.
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 gameplay ? pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:38 pm

The gameplay looks good on this now so this can now receive this:
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=D> =D> Congrats Flapcake! =D> =D>
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 gameplay ? pg.7

Postby Flapcake on Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:45 pm

isaiah40 wrote:The gameplay looks good on this now so this can now receive this:
Image
=D> =D> Congrats Flapcake! =D> =D>


Thanks guys :D

now lets concentrate on graphic ;)
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Re: Copenhagen sightseeing V12. 06/01 graphic's feedback pg.

Postby crazymilkshake5 on Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:55 am

=D> =D> =D>
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