Paris - V10 (May 28) (pgs. 1 & 9) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

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Paris - V10 (May 28) (pgs. 1 & 9) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:23 am

Map Name: Paris
Mapmaker(s): sempaispellcheck
Number of Territories: 39
Special Features: Starting neutrals, autodeploy, partial bonuses
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: This map continues the great tradition of CC city maps established by the NYC map. Paris is one of the world's most famous cities - a fantastic tourist destination with a long and eventful history. It is also, according to Jon Stewart's America: the Book, "the world's most...seizable city." If ten (count them, ten) different groups/tribes/etc. can take Paris, why can't we? :P

Version 10:
Large:
Click image to enlarge.
image


Moved stuff around, added a sky with a smiling sun, because the sky looked empty without it.
I still need to get those landmarks in, though.

Notre Dame starts as neutral 10, other 4 landmarks start as neutral 5.

39 territories
Drop: (to be confirmed)
2 players: 12 regions per player, 15 starting neutrals (including 5 landmarks)
3 players: 11 regions per player, 6 starting neutrals (including 5 landmarks)
4 players: 8 regions per player, 7 starting neutrals (including 5 landmarks)
5 players: 6 regions per player, 9 starting neutrals (including 5 landmarks)
6 players: 5 regions per player, 9 starting neutrals (including 5 landmarks)
7 players: 4 regions per player, 11 starting neutrals (including 5 landmarks)
8 players: 4 regions per player, 7 starting neutrals (including 5 landmarks)

If there is any other info you would like me to post here, please ask for it. Thank you!

show: Version 9


show: Version 8


show: Version 7


show: Version 6


show: Version 5


show: Version 4.1


show: Version 4


show: Version 3


show: Version 2


show: Version 1


XML: http://www.fileden.com/files/2012/4/3/3 ... risMap.xml

Looking for feedback on anything and everything. Tell me what you think (and why you think it :D )
Last edited by sempaispellcheck on Tue May 28, 2013 7:18 pm, edited 23 times in total.
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:09 pm

Well taking a quick look at this map I'd say your biggest problem is that the map is very plain. One big thing you could do to fix this is by adding some texture to the map, I'm not sure what program you're using but I know photoshop pretty well and there are others on here who know other programs. Next, the colors of the french flag bleed on to the playable area, which is ugly and kind of distracting, you should erase the areas where the flag colors go onto the map. Your next biggest problem is pixelization, which if you're unfamiliar with the term is where the lines or colored areas appear jagged or blocky. The river is the biggest culprit and some of the territory borders are pixelated as well. Ltly, the map needs some kind of character or Parisian feel to it. You could try putting in little illustrations of the major sights in Paris, such as eiffel tower, the arc de triomphe, the Bastille, Notre Dame, ect.

I hope this helped and I think once you get these things taken care of you should attract much more attraction from other map makers and commenters.
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:47 pm

Thanks a lot for the feedback, Helix, much appreciated. I'm working with GIMP (too poor for Photoshop, unfortunately).

Your suggestions make a lot of sense, and I had actually been thinking about illustrations of the landmarks (and maybe a baguette or something in the background?) for my second draft.

The pixelization will probably be the hardest thing for me to deal with, but I'll figure it out or ask for help.

Thanks again for your feedback, and hopefully I can get my second draft out soon!!
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby ManBungalow on Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:25 am

Cool.

Your map should have some sound gameplay before you start worrying about the graphics. At the moment, there aren't many regions, and there's nothing to really show off the unique qualities of Paris.

You have some 4-way borders, where it's unclear which regions attack which. For instance, I can't tell if Batignolles is supposed to attack Opera etc. Actually, I think the map would benefit from some more impassables in this format.

For the record, I've always liked the graphics on the Vancouver map (even though it shows a lot of the surrounding area, it's still a city map as far as I'm concerned).

There are plenty of people here who can help with GIMP and offer good advice.

That is all.
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:00 am

I like the concept!

Map needs work, graphically speaking. There are people better qualified than I to give input about that.

But as far as concept, this is excellent! I like the idea of "uniting" the 5 most famous landmarks.
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:22 pm

Thanks, Dukasaur!!

This is my first map, and I am by no means what you would call an artist.
That said, I'm working on the feedback that Helix has given me, and will go from there.

Glad you like the concept, though!
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:31 pm

Hey ManBungalow!! I'm sorry I didn't see your comment before.

Speaking for myself, I don't see too many problems with the gameplay as is. Counting the metro stations, the map has 42 regions, which is not a bad number - and certainly not the least ever seen on CC, as Duck and cover only has 24. Also, I had a fair bit of trouble fitting the text into the territories as they are, so it would take some doing to fit them in after dividing territories to add more.

As stated in the note at the bottom center of the map, territories cannot attack across corners, so Batignolles and Opera can't attack each other. It's all coded in the XML if you have the time to sift through that.

I like the Vancouver map' graphics as well, but I'm not certain what I could take from them to apply to my Paris map.

I am working on my second draft, which will contain a number of substantial improvements over this first draft, and hope to be able to post it soon.

Thank you for your feedback!!
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Flapcake on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:21 pm

Cool that you are doin a Paris city map, at this stage you have some work in front of you.

Some comment for you: you just cant enlarge the version you done and call it "large map" every thing gets pixilated that way, you need to work on both as uniqe maps, ofc you can copy stuff but bewhare of pixilation. the colors you use for background, it dosent look good that they mix in layers, bonus areas in serval colors confuses. the winnings condictions I have also used on some of my maps, and its already tryed out on my Danmark map, 5 was to hard.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=151728&start=0

My city map of Copenhagen have a turist theme,(same winning condictions) its importen that your map have a consistend theme.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=241&t=158529&start=0

I find your map appealing and worth working with, keep it up ;)
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:27 pm

This map seems way too small to support 5 10n Objectives. Maybe make it 4 of 5 (a la Copenhavn)? Maybe reduce the neutral presence? Maybe make them all +1 autodeploy?
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:53 pm

Hey, Flapcake and DoomYoshi!!

Thanks for the feedback, guys!! Flapcake, you raise some great points, and I will definitely work on those in my second draft.

About the winning condition - I want it to include territories all over the city, so it won't be advantageous to camp out in or exclude any one area. If I make it 4 of 5, I'm worried that players may just ignore la Rive Gauche completely because it only has 1 objective territory (Tour Eiffel).

Should I make them neutral 5s w/+1? And if I do, should Notre Dame keep its +2?

Thanks again for your feedback!!
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:56 pm

Also, I am considering changing the name of "Luxembourg" to "SciencesPo" or "IEP" (Institut des Etudes Politiques - Institute of Political Studies).

Thoughts?
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:16 pm

Second draft posted - see first post of thread. I'm thinking it'll be easier to just keep all drafts in the first post with spoilers rather than have them sprinkled throughout the thread.

The one thing I had wanted to do for this draft but didn't get to was to insert miniature drawings of the landmarks I will be using as objectives. At this point, I'm still not sure how to do that, so that will wait for the third draft.
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:56 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:Hey, Flapcake and DoomYoshi!!

Thanks for the feedback, guys!! Flapcake, you raise some great points, and I will definitely work on those in my second draft.

About the winning condition - I want it to include territories all over the city, so it won't be advantageous to camp out in or exclude any one area. If I make it 4 of 5, I'm worried that players may just ignore la Rive Gauche completely because it only has 1 objective territory (Tour Eiffel).

Should I make them neutral 5s w/+1? And if I do, should Notre Dame keep its +2?

Thanks again for your feedback!!
sempai


I wouldn't worry too much about camping out.

Keeping +2 makes sense, and you can even have that one with more neutrals on it to reflect the greater bonus and central location advantage.

However, your map is tripping me out!
It is faster to march through the territories than it is to take the ligne 1! Is this true while traveling through Paris?

EDIT: It is actually the same pace; still weird though.

EDIT again: Thinking about it twice, the neutrals negate that statement. It would only be equidistant in the late game. I don't foresee very many late games here though.
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:13 am

DoomYoshi wrote:Keeping +2 makes sense, and you can even have that one with more neutrals on it to reflect the greater bonus and central location advantage.


So, should I keep Notre Dame at 10 neutrals, or maybe cut it down to, say, 8?
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:58 am

sempaispellcheck wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Keeping +2 makes sense, and you can even have that one with more neutrals on it to reflect the greater bonus and central location advantage.


So, should I keep Notre Dame at 10 neutrals, or maybe cut it down to, say, 8?


I am not sure, let's see what some others think?
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Re: Paris (April 2) First draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Flapcake on Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:38 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Keeping +2 makes sense, and you can even have that one with more neutrals on it to reflect the greater bonus and central location advantage.


So, should I keep Notre Dame at 10 neutrals, or maybe cut it down to, say, 8?



I think 10 is to much, you can easily cut it down to 5, the areas are part of ohter bonuses and will gets atacked by different players.

1 thing: you can not have 4-way border, in a 4-way border you can't tell who attacks who.
2 thing: still your large map are obvious that you have just enlarged the file, it dosent work well, looks very pixelated, you have do get that sorted out (your small map also have some serius pixilations) Il say for this to being a draft, the pixilation are one of your main conserns rigth now.
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:10 pm

I was just talking about Notre Dame, since it's centered and gives +2 autodeploy. The others I've made 5.
I put a note in on the bottom of the map that you can't attack across corners. If you guys think players won't read it, I'll redraw the borders.

OK, I thought I had fixed the pixelation, but I guess not. How do I fix it? What do I need to do?
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:12 pm

Also, Flapcake, how did you get do the icons for the sights on your Copenhagen map? I'd like to do something similar here, but I don't know how.
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:20 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:I was just talking about Notre Dame, since it's centered and gives +2 autodeploy. The others I've made 5.
I put a note in on the bottom of the map that you can't attack across corners. If you guys think players won't read it, I'll redraw the borders.

OK, I thought I had fixed the pixelation, but I guess not. How do I fix it? What do I need to do?


To fix the pixelation, don't just make it larger. Redraw it at a larger size.
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby cairnswk on Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:27 pm

sempaispellcheck...welcome to mapmaking and all its trials and tribulations...good start for concept :)
I see the fourway borders you have on your map has been targeted, so i won't go there.

Below is a little something i did sometime ago that might/might not give you some inspiration for your map.
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:15 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:To fix the pixelation, don't just make it larger. Redraw it at a larger size.

Grr. I was hoping to avoid that.

Thanks, cairns!! And thanks for sharing your idea!! I could definitely use some of your territory names, if nothing else. :D

All right, all right, I'll redraw the borders. :roll:
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Flapcake on Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:25 pm

You simple just not enlarge text or lines, whats always good to remember is that images, text and drawn stuff reduces quality when enlargin, you only have the same amounth of pixels to work with, when scrinking the pixels gets smaller and you avoid pixilation, build large and scale down, newer the ohter way.

Solution to your pixel problem, redraw the map (sorry) in large version, smoot the edges of the borders, then when you do the small map, scrink with out the text, retype the text, or else you risk it will be blurry.

you asked for the icons at my copenhagen map, its landmarks and therfor have no copyrigths, the mermaid I have taken the picture my self, you can google the stuff you need and redraw/remodel it to out of reconesion, then thers no copyrigth.

(i know my english suck, but i hope you understand ;) )

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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:44 pm

Why is there never an easy way out? :x C'est la vie...I guess.
Oooh boy. Guess I have my work cut out for me. The next update may not be ready for a little while, but hopefully it will be worth the wait.
Thanks for the feedback, all!! (and don't worry about it, Flap, I can understand you perfectly).
Now...time to get to work!
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Flapcake on Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:05 am

sempaispellcheck wrote:Why is there never an easy way out? :x C'est la vie...I guess.


well I hope not its "C'est la vie" course you have something worth working with, but no one sayd map making was easy ;) you do have to do your very bedst, or aleast try. its not a hard job Iv asked for, its only the borderlines and the text, then what ever you want for effects (icons, patterns, shapes, shadows ect. ect.) you can add later on, rigth now we must lift it up to a minimun standard for a draft. (hope not it sounds to rugh :| )

wich program do you use ? (photoshop/Gimp, other)

Keep up the mood and good work.
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Re: Paris (April 2) Second draft (pg. 1) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:12 am

I'm just being over-dramatic, Flap (and whining a little, yes, but I'll get over that). True, true, I know, and I will.

I'm using GIMP, and I think what I'm going to do is redraw the map following natty's GIMP tutorial, but keeping bonus colors, territory names, bonuses, gameplay, etc. - starting from quasi-scratch. :D
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