Map sizes

[swimmerdude99]

Why are new maps so huge? its annoying and I really think they should be smaller... why so big? I can't see the entire map and the stats and stuff at the same time. If people want a big map can't they hit the button that makes it bigger? why are small maps so big now?

[ljex]

it would be nice if they had smaller versions...i understand lots of players have bigger screens than me but they can use the large map feature if they want.

[natty dread]

A, no one forces you to play the maps that you think are too big and 2, maps can't just be made "smaller" just like that - you need to be able to fit in all the details and rules on the map image. Also, for some reason we have an idiotic side bar on the left side of the screen taking room from maps.

And you can always zoom out in your browser by pressing ctrl - or holding ctrl and scrolling the mouse wheel.

[ljex]

A, no one forces you to play the maps that you think are too big and 2, maps can't just be made "smaller" just like that - you need to be able to fit in all the details and rules on the map image. Also, for some reason we have an idiotic side bar on the left side of the screen taking room from maps.

And you can always zoom out in your browser by pressing ctrl - or holding ctrl and scrolling the mouse wheel.

i have zero issues with with horizontal screen room, it is all about the size of the map vertically. Anyway if hive can fit all on one screen every other map should be able to at least come close. I can see about half of Kings Court II at any time and need to zoom out 4 times in order to see the entire map on one screen.

Sure i dont have to play the maps...but then that's just taking one of the great things about CC away from me as a player. Also what about random...am i allowed take maps out of random so that i dont get the large ones?

And yes, i can deal with it...but its a nuisance and it would be nice if cc could just stick to smaller maps sizes with bigger map options. Clearly im not the only one bothered.

All anyone is asking for is an option...there was already a large map function so people could see greater detail if they wanted. And while zooming out is an option it distorts the map ever so slightly which is even more annoying than scrolling. Not to mention the fact that it causes problems with some scrips like clickable maps where you can mis deploy or something like that.

[natty dread]

Yeah ijex, if you only want the map in a smaller size, just zoom out in your browser. But then don't complain that the text is unreadable, borders are unclear etc. Map images need, by default, be clear and readable in both sizes, so there's a limit how small a certain map image with certain gameplay can be made.

For example, a map like king's court 2 can hardly be made any smaller, the small map is already as small as a map with that many territories can be - if the map image were to be made any smaller, then people would complain that the map is unreadable, the numbers don't fit, etc.

You see, the way computer graphics work, you cannot downscale a bitmap image without losing details & accuracy - all images on computers are made of small coloured squares called "pixels" and there's only a certain amount of these pixels that can fit in a certain sized image. If you reduce the image size, you also reduce the number of pixels in that image, effectively reducing the quality of the image. That's also why the quality lowers when you zoom out, and if the maps were made smaller by default then it would achieve the same effect.

[cairnswk]

natty, i don't have issues with playing the smaller or larger maps...i have BOB 5.2.3 installed and that allows me to hide the side-bar menu when GAME is turned on as an option in the HIDE MENU: option.
I guess you don't have BOB.
I do understand however the small screen issues, and yes i beleive there should still be small maps as well as large ones - lots of work, but it goes someway to please most of the community.

[natty dread]

i have BOB 5.2.3 installed and that allows me to hide the side-bar menu

So? Bob is not part of the actual site, it's an external tool... the point is the sidebar shouldn't exist in the first place. We shouldn't need a tool to hide it.

I do understand however the small screen issues, and yes i beleive there should still be small maps as well as large ones

Sure there should be small maps, but these guys are complaining that "small maps are not small enough"... but the irony is that when I suggest to them to zoom out in their browser they say "no, the map gets too unclear then" without realizing that if the map was sized smaller it would cause the exact same problem....

Small maps need to be as small as possible while fitting in all the map elements so that they're clear and readable, but asking them to be made any smaller than that because they don't fit your own screen is simply foolish. If you want to downscale maps at the cost of quality/readability, you can just as well use the zoom function for that.

[DiM]

Small maps need to be as small as possible while fitting in all the map elements so that they're clear and readable, but asking them to be made any smaller than that because they don't fit your own screen is simply foolish. If you want to downscale maps at the cost of quality/readability, you can just as well use the zoom function for that.

QFT.



it's not just about the sidebar, even with that removed we'd still have to scroll vertically. it's about having a completely outdated interface, from a technological point of view.
other sites like majorcommand, luxdelux, or landgrab have far superior interfaces that include by default all the features of such add-ons like clickable maps or bob. plus they have separate legends for the maps in separate pop-up or slide-in images.

if we had this then we'd shave of 1-400 pixels of almost any map. this space could be used for adding more terits and enhance the gameplay or simply left out and make sure the map fits snugly on the screen.

[Dukasaur]

For example, a map like king's court 2 can hardly be made any smaller, the small map is already as small as a map with that many territories can be - if the map image were to be made any smaller, then people would complain that the map is unreadable, the numbers don't fit, etc.

King's Court 2 is a perfect example. It's insane that the "small" map won't fit on the screen, even vertically. And yes, the labels are almost unreadable, but there's no reason they have to be. There's tons of unused space in each hex, so why do the labels only fill the top quarter of the hex, instead of the whole top half? The old Avalon Hill tabletop wargames were built with small hexes also, but there weren't huge gobs of wasted space in a hex, if the label needed to fill the whole thing, it did. If the font on KC2 was doubled relative to the map hex, the map could be shrunk down by 30% in each dimension while still making the *actual* size of the labels larger and more readable.

it's not just about the sidebar, even with that removed we'd still have to scroll vertically. it's about having a completely outdated interface, from a technological point of view.
other sites like majorcommand, luxdelux, or landgrab have far superior interfaces that include by default all the features of such add-ons like clickable maps or bob. plus they have separate legends for the maps in separate pop-up or slide-in images.

They pay for all that techno-wizardry with more bugs, more bandwidth, and longer load times.

[natty dread]

King's Court 2 is a perfect example. It's insane that the "small" map won't fit on the screen,

Whose screen? Or did all screens become the same size when I wasn't looking?

And yes, the labels are almost unreadable, but there's no reason they have to be. There's tons of unused space in each hex,

See, that's what you just don't get. We have certain requirements - each territory must fit 3 digits and a territory label. The territory labels must also be in readable size, and in addition to that, KC2 also has icons that denote different gameplay mechanics that need to be readable.

Have you ever tried to design map graphics? Do you know all the different things that mapmakers have to take in account when designing a map interface? No, but you still blindly demand "smaller maps" for your own convenience. When you reduce the size of a map, you run into all kinds of problems regarding clarity, readability, etc.

The old Avalon Hill tabletop wargames

Stop right there, that's an idiotic comparison. Tabletop games are not limited by resolution of the displaying device. If everyone's monitors were the same resolution as a printing press (around 600 dpi at least) then we'd have no problems at all, in fact we could do with just one map image and scale it when necessary. Sadly, computer technology isn't quite there yet, so there's a certain limit, a certain treshold that stops reducing the actual size of maps - in terms of font size, that limit is around 8px - any smaller fonts will become unreadable because of pixelation.

If the font on KC2 was doubled relative to the map hex, the map could be shrunk down by 30% in each dimension while still making the *actual* size of the labels larger and more readable.

No it couldn't. Maybe if you really squeezed everything together some 5-10% could be squeezed out of the size, barely.

The truth is that the size of the small map is largely dependent on the large - in most cases, the small map can't be made smaller than 75% of the large map. It seems to me like people who complain about the sizes want things both ways - they want large & complex maps, but they also want them to fit in the size of their palm... which is, with our current technology, impossible.

The real answer is not limiting the size of maps, but again we need a better UI for the game page, and sorting maps in categories. CC should continue offering something for everyone, small maps for small map lovers and large maps for large map lovers.

They pay for all that techno-wizardry with more bugs, more bandwidth, and longer load times.

Bandwidth and loading times are only a concern with antiquated, bloated platforms like flash, and those are totally unnecessary for designing a better game UI. And bugs? That's simply a non-sequitur. Bugs are not dependent on what kind of interface you have, bugs result from shoddy coding.

[thenobodies80]

I just want to ask a thing about the poll....what does it mean smaller?
I mean sincesize is something relative and mostly it depends on the hardware people have....with smaller you mean how many pixels? The old 630x600 ? smaller? Bigger?
Without set a perfect small size limit required it's difficult to have a concrete and constructive discussion about this.
What's the biggest map image you can see on your monitors?

I want to clarify why remove the left side bar can change things:
1. maps can be larger instead of taller
2. The dropdown menu (game menu) can be moved on the right side, under player names! Like in this example:

Click image to enlarge.

Isn't this better than have smaller, less detailed, uglier maps?

[chapcrap]

I prefer small map sizes...

Perhaps a third map size could be made for the very large maps. There would be large, small, and mini... or small, large, and super size.

[ljex]

Yeah ijex, if you only want the map in a smaller size, just zoom out in your browser. But then don't complain that the text is unreadable, borders are unclear etc. Map images need, by default, be clear and readable in both sizes, so there's a limit how small a certain map image with certain gameplay can be made.

You see, the way computer graphics work, you cannot downscale a bitmap image without losing details & accuracy - all images on computers are made of small coloured squares called "pixels" and there's only a certain amount of these pixels that can fit in a certain sized image. If you reduce the image size, you also reduce the number of pixels in that image, effectively reducing the quality of the image. That's also why the quality lowers when you zoom out, and if the maps were made smaller by default then it would achieve the same effect.

Is it really necessary to be condescending in your post? I do know enough about computers to know about pixels and such.

For example, a map like king's court 2 can hardly be made any smaller, the small map is already as small as a map with that many territories can be - if the map image were to be made any smaller, then people would complain that the map is unreadable, the numbers don't fit, etc.

Look at the size of the hive map, then go look at the size of the kings court map. Hive has more regions than the kings court map though granted there are a bunch of nonexistent regions in Kings court II.


The points is, not everyone likes these new large maps like lack thought they would. Sure map makers love them as it gives them more to work with, but as a user who now has to scroll a bunch, it is really annoying.

[ljex]

I just want to ask a thing about the poll....what does it mean smaller?
I mean sincesize is something relative and mostly it depends on the hardware people have....with smaller you mean how many pixels? The old 630x600 ? smaller? Bigger?
Without set a perfect small size limit required it's difficult to have a concrete and constructive discussion about this.
What's the biggest map image you can see on your monitors?

I want to clarify why remove the left side bar can change things:
1. maps can be larger instead of taller
2. The dropdown menu (game menu) can be moved on the right side, under player names! Like in this example:

Click image to enlarge.

Isn't this better than have smaller, less detailed, uglier maps?

I really dont mind scrolling a little bit for a map, but for kings court II or the NA/SA map whatever that is called, i can only really see about half the map at any given time which makes it really hard to gain a perspective on the situation of the game.

[grifftron]

I myself would love to have the smaller maps of the huge maps smallasized... my tiny monitor cannot fit them in, and I really would love to play some of those huge ones a lot more, but i just hate it because like the above posted, just too much sliding back and forth up and down just to see what the heck is going on. I dont even care if its readable, as long as i can click, kill, click, kill...please do this.

-griff