Some answers, I'll leave you natty for the final one, since you're the only one who really knows what we're talking about.
Christmas is a good map. It is the only defensible special map.
this make me laugh, i like that map but I know the "secrets" behind it, who draw the background picture, the names on the map, etc...
In any case what you said sound strange to me because I can provide a long long list of people who find it horrible and hate it.
This is a confirmation of the fact all maps have a reason and shouldn't be axed because there's always someone who like them.
DoomYoshi wrote:Why can't there be two World XLs? We already have many maps of the world.
The foundry, or in this case the site, has its own rules: Maps must be ‘inherently unique either in gameplay, location, or theme’.
Army of GOD wrote:What I don't understand is how natty is supposed to know how to make his map different if he doesn't even know what the other map looks like...
He can't, that's why I asked (and Andy did the same) to him to keep his map on hold for a bit. I don't think natty will die if he will work a bit later on this map.
Then if we want to make this thing a matter of principle it's another thing.
natty dread wrote:my objection was to the very idea that maps are being made in secret, outside the foundry, and they get some kind of special treatment against regular foundry maps.
You already know my thoughts about this but since we're speaking let me speak frankly so people can understand this discussion. First of all let me state clear that I'm not going to speak like Foundry Foreman, but as simple user, foundry user, mapmaker like you and everyone else. So...(throwing the blue shoes in a corner of the room):
Personally I think that special maps, at some point should pass through the foundry system and i think that the site has understood this thing and it's going to go on this road finally. What I continue to say is that there's a big difference between the use and the abuse of a thing. The special maps must be special maps and they must come occasionally and with occasionally I mean 1 in a year, no more.
I'm not pointing my fingers against the Entertainment Team, but - and this is a very personal thought - that team is allowed to do nothing and everything and I think that this is where the problem lies. (don't get me wrong gilligan
If it was my site the Entertainment Team should be half of what it is now, they should be the team behind a special event but IMO a tournament, a map, etc etc should be organized, runned or draw by the people who does this all days instead of give some pink to people who could be more efficient and prolific with another color. The newsletter people is doing a good job, but if this was my site, for special events I would go with a pink man + a gold man if we speak about tournament, pink + blue if we speak about maps.
The confirmation of what I'm saying is the map you referred to: Easter
I have to admit is one of the map i dislike the most. Input given from CAs: ZERO!
In that moment I learned that, at least the FF, should be aware about a map project or it will be a shitty map 100%
Now, I'm not trying to appear like a map god, far from me, I still have lot to learn like everyone else, but look at my africa II map, done behind the scenes (just because there was a good cause to support) but with the collaboration of a small group of valid people, people who knows about maps.
Personally I've decided to not give my support in the development of new behind the scenes map, this because i really think that my role on this site is to be the voice of the foundry people, not only the person who manage the foundry things for the admins. Obviously I can see if maps are developed, but this just because if I see anopther piece of crap I can jump there and say...guys you're doing another shitty map! But my role/collaboration with that type of maps is just that.
Now, where I throw my blue shoes?..oh ok there...gimem a sec to take them
natty dread wrote:And why should I have to automatically be the one to have to make a different map? What happened to equality? Why aren't their "secret" map treated the same as any other map that goes through the foundry? Yes, they say they'll "put their map in the foundry for public review" but those are empty words when we know the same rules don't apply to their map... If the graphics or gameplay suck, and the talentless hacks who have to hide in their own forums can't get them up to foundry standards, will their project be binned like any other map project would? I kinda doubt it... it'll probably end up looking like a piece of Easter.
If the site thinks that have and develop a map outside the foundry system is a good thing ....I can't do nothing to stop them.
Honestly If a map comes out a piece of crap only people can "bin" that map, never forget the power of your paying customers.
If the map sucks, don't play it, go in the thread (when we will have it) and shout loudly: this map sucks, stop making maps without letting people who knows about map can look at them.
But for now I have to leave the benefit of the doubt, at least till we can play that map.
Instead, if what you're saying it's just a matter of principle, then natty...you don't own this site, I don't own this site so we can only shut up. As said I really think that special maps should come very rarely.
I don't know about the others map, but for Africa II the system we used was really similar to the foundry one, I'm strongly convinced that the foundry system can produce good maps we really need to refine it, but it works.
natty dread wrote:Also, if they're going to put their map for "public review" anyway, then what's the point of developing it in secret in the first place? The thing doesn't make any sense. Mark my words, they're going to phase out the foundry alltogether...
The point, i think is that the foundry system is too slow. If the site will let me change the things in the way I would change them it won't be so slow.
Hopefully it seems this time I can change some things, you know I'm trying to change the system to have it done for you all, but let me say that for now just few person send me a PM because the want to help.
So if I fight to change things, if i fight for you all...but when it comes to the point we can change things and you all can speak to change things, no one speak....
Although there're some things that maybe show less respect for the foundry and for the foundry people, in the same time the foundry people has less respect and interest in making their ownhome a better place.
Let me say this clear, there's too much new people that complain but do nothing when it comes to contribute to make thing better.
I don't think they are going to phase out the foundry, but on the opposite is the community that is doing that....look at this thing from the other point of view and you'll see how much I'm right.
People don't care about us, when they do, we respond with harsh words so the don't come back, we are also paying for a old crew who didn't want the outsider come into the foundry, they pissed the people around the forum to transform the foundry in a closed, small group and then leave the site to create their own site with a totally closed system in which they draw your map idea if they want to.
This is the foundry MrBenn and myself found, this is the foundry we're trying to save and put back to its former glory. But even if I try to put all my effort into it I can't do it alone. Look at it, those who are really foundry voices are 4, 5 no more i think...i start a discussion and it ends in nothing....
Remember the foundry are you guys, not the site....they can't close or phase out a group of people....to me it's more that one mapmaker doesn't care anymore about the others, too big egos there, too many bad answers to people who come there trying to ask, contribute.
Tell them they are shit and they will throw your shit back to you at some point.
I think this post is a mess and I'm not sure it's fully understandable (I'm writing while I'm at work so if something is not clear or confused, sorry)
It's interesting we're talking about the foundry in GD....but at least someone will read and reply in the thread!