Paris - V10 (May 28) (pgs. 1 & 9) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Flapcake on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:21 pm

Hi sempaispellcheck

You have a solid concept to work on for now, but it seems like you having to many balls in the air at same time, you need to focus and get the holeness rigth.

it's pretty obvious that your flag is a photo you've tried to adapt, I do not think it's pretty good, too vague and poor colors, a flag is something a nation are proud of and you certainly have to make it as nicely as possible to give it the credit it deserve.

I have created a flag (you can use it as it is if you want or remodel it, its yours for free) just to give you an idea on how smoot you need to make your images, im also thinking about your icons/sigths.

You have as i pointed out, a good bace and a nice concept, and I hope you keep it up and work on it, you are on track and have good support for your map to make it through.

Flap

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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:24 am

Flapcake wrote:it's pretty obvious that your flag is a photo you've tried to adapt, I do not think it's pretty good, too vague and poor colors, a flag is something a nation are proud of and you certainly have to make it as nicely as possible to give it the credit it deserve.


OK, starting to feel like I'm being pulled in different directions here.
I used the photo because I don't know how to create that effect in GIMP.
My idea was to make the flag the background for the map, but isaiah told me that if I did that, it would have to be barely visible (as it is now) so it wouldn't detract from the playable area.
Do you think it would be better if I just put the flag across the top, like you did on Denmark? That's what isaiah initially suggested instead.
BUT - if I do that, what should I use for the rest of the background? Paris is landlocked, so I can't put water there, and it's bordered by about 50 different banlieues (suburbs) with really long names, which would clutter up the map if I put them all in.

Flapcake wrote:I have created a flag (you can use it as it is if you want or remodel it, its yours for free) just to give you an idea on how smoot you need to make your images, im also thinking about your icons/sigths.


How do I do that?
Please keep in mind that this is my first attempt at anything with graphics software, so while I am doing my best, I might need slightly more specific advice than some more experienced mapmakers.
Should I just leave the graphics to someone else? I REALLY want to do this myself, but if you guys feel it would be better to have someone else do it, I could be OK with that.
I'm just getting a little frustrated.
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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:46 am

sempaispellcheck wrote:Should I just leave the graphics to someone else? I REALLY want to do this myself, but if you guys feel it would be better to have someone else do it, I could be OK with that.
I'm just getting a little frustrated.


Never leave the graphics to anyone else. Believe me, it gets easier over time and in the end, the satisfaction of playing a map you created is far better than all of the hours put into your first one.

A couple of things for you then first. Have you read nattys gimp tutorials (both parts)? If no, then do so.

Secondly, if you need to know anything about GIMP, post specific questions and I will try to answer them for you as clearly as I can.

Keep at it. You do have the makings of a map here, just not the know how, right now to pull it of.

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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:47 pm

My one suggestion would be to not worry about the small map for now, just concentrate on the large. In this way you don't have to do major changes to both maps, thereby making it easier for you in the long run.
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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Flapcake on Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:49 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:
OK, starting to feel like I'm being pulled in different directions here.



Im sorry, It was not my intentions. It was only a suggestion on how to make the bagground, maby you have to find anohter way to do, maby like isaiah40 suggested, its all up to you.

English is not my first language and I have to get google to help me with spellings, so im not the bedst to explain how to use the tools in graphic programs, but how im working is with filters, effects and the opacity for those, its about adding layers of effects, not to many and not to few ;) use the blur/finger tool to smoot edges, add outerglow/drop shadow to ancor/integrate the icons/images in the base, so its kind of flow together.

the flag it did like this. start new layer in size of the map, select a vertical box in a third of the area the the left, make new copy of layer, fill with blue, do it again for the red. merge the 3 layers together, add "wave" effect from patters overlay and work with the waves size to find the setting you like. make copy of the layer and add a "dusty" effect from patters overlay, last I added from filter "twist" to make it kind of "zig zag" down the middel.

I like your idea of a giant flag for baground, but your current choice of flag I dont like.

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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:29 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Never leave the graphics to anyone else. Believe me, it gets easier over time and in the end, the satisfaction of playing a map you created is far better than all of the hours put into your first one.


Wasn't planning on it. I certainly hope so.

koontz1973 wrote:A couple of things for you then first. Have you read nattys gimp tutorials (both parts)?


Yes, I have, but not until after I posted my second draft - which explains the difference between my second and third drafts. :D

koontz1973 wrote:Secondly, if you need to know anything about GIMP, post specific questions and I will try to answer them for you as clearly as I can.


Thanks for the offer. I will definitely take you up on it.

koontz1973 wrote:Keep at it. You do have the makings of a map here, just not the know how, right now to pull it off.

koontz


Thank you. I will.

isaiah40 wrote:My one suggestion would be to not worry about the small map for now, just concentrate on the large. In this way you don't have to do major changes to both maps, thereby making it easier for you in the long run.


And in the short run. :D Makes sense.

Flapcake wrote:
sempaispellcheck wrote:
OK, starting to feel like I'm being pulled in different directions here.



Im sorry, It was not my intentions. It was only a suggestion on how to make the bagground, maby you have to find anohter way to do, maby like isaiah40 suggested, its all up to you.


Don't apologize, it's not your fault. Right now, I've basically been trying everything I can think of (which isn't much) and hoping something will work. :)

Flapcake wrote:how im working is with filters, effects and the opacity for those, its about adding layers of effects, not to many and not to few ;) use the blur/finger tool to smoot edges, add outerglow/drop shadow to ancor/integrate the icons/images in the base, so its kind of flow together.

the flag it did like this. start new layer in size of the map, select a vertical box in a third of the area the the left, make new copy of layer, fill with blue, do it again for the red. merge the 3 layers together, add "wave" effect from patters overlay and work with the waves size to find the setting you like. make copy of the layer and add a "dusty" effect from patters overlay, last I added from filter "twist" to make it kind of "zig zag" down the middel.


Ah. OK, I'll play with that a bit and see what I get. Thank you!!

Flapcake wrote:I like your idea of a giant flag for baground, but your current choice of flag I dont like.

Flap


OK. Now I think I understand you. :D

Thank you all for your feedback! Please keep it coming!!
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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:42 pm

OK, now that you are going to do the large only for now (and until you get the game play stamp),
here is a list of things to do for the next update to try and get this moving forward.

Text - On the map, the text is all over the place. Get it all to the same size and orientation. For now, have it all flat. Some looks like it is bolded, some not. Again, all text on the map needs to be identical.
Colours - Your colours are OK, but the green is way to dark and the others are just glaring. You have a layer which you have used cloud render on, delete this layer for now.
Army number circles - lower the opacity to 50%
Try to add a texture to the map.
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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Tue May 01, 2012 7:46 am

koontz1973 wrote:OK, now that you are going to do the large only for now (and until you get the game play stamp),
here is a list of things to do for the next update to try and get this moving forward.

Text - On the map, the text is all over the place. Get it all to the same size and orientation. For now, have it all flat. Some looks like it is bolded, some not. Again, all text on the map needs to be identical.


I rotated some of the territory names so they wouldn't spill over into other territories and cause confusion.
The text is not all visible if it's flat (especially the colored text in the legend). What if I made it all bolded? That would still make it identical, no?

koontz1973 wrote:Colours - Your colours are OK, but the green is way to dark and the others are just glaring. You have a layer which you have used cloud render on, delete this layer for now.
Try to add a texture to the map.


I used the cloud render layer to add a texture to the map - as per natty's tutorial. What texture should I use, if not that one?

koontz1973 wrote:Army number circles - lower the opacity to 50%


OK, that's an easy fix.

Also, I think I'm going to take isaiah's advice about a small scale flag on top - like you have on Hungary. Any suggestions for what I should do with the rest of the background?
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Re: Paris - V5 (4/28) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby koontz1973 on Tue May 01, 2012 8:35 am

Text, set it to size 12. That should mean all the text fits into the territories. Legend text, leave for now. If a name does not fit, try and move a border or two so it does.
Texture - go here and download any you like.
viewtopic.php?f=649&t=123772
Highlight the playable area and copy and paste it to a new layer above. Set the new texture layer to overlay/grain merge. Play with the settings till you find one that works.
Turn the cloud layer of. You do not need it.
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu May 03, 2012 12:13 am

Version 6:
Large - 800x720
Click image to enlarge.
image


Changes: Resized territory names and aligned them horizontally, added dropshadows for all other text, added different texture ("Oil Paint" - appropriate, no?), lightened color of Rive Gauche Ouest, reduced opacity of army circles, and shrank flag to top quarter (or so) of image (as per isaiah40's original suggestion) - used a light grey for the rest of the background.

Still to do: If I knew, I'd be working on it.

Question: Does anyone else have a problem with the font I used? If yes, please tell me why, and please recommend a specific font or fonts that I should use instead.
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby swimmerdude99 on Thu May 03, 2012 1:00 am

I haven't read through everything but I suggest you extend the flag to go all the way down the map's basis, and maybe a little less diverse colors? try to stick with more red, blue, white/gray territs so it isn't so diverse?
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby koontz1973 on Thu May 03, 2012 1:45 am

Much better and much cleaner. I like it.

You legend are is very bland. Try to do something with it. Maybe the flag, or a nice picture of paris can be added to it.
Your pictures still need to be worked over. Try drawing them yourself.

Will have a long look later today for you but the best advice is to practise with your programme.
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu May 03, 2012 9:21 am

swimmerdude99 wrote:I haven't read through everything but I suggest you extend the flag to go all the way down the map's basis


That was my initial idea, but isaiah said it detracted from the playable area somehow. He's got blue shoes, so I'll take his word for it. I tried lowering the opacity, but it didn't really look good.

swimmerdude99 wrote:maybe a little less diverse colors? try to stick with more red, blue, white/gray territs so it isn't so diverse?


I could. I kind of like the colors I have, though. We'll see.
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu May 03, 2012 9:23 am

koontz1973 wrote:Much better and much cleaner. I like it.


Thanks! :D

koontz1973 wrote:You legend are is very bland. Try to do something with it. Maybe the flag, or a nice picture of paris can be added to it.


OK, I can do that. I'll probably have to draw something, though, since most of the images I've found online contain one or more of the landmarks already illustrated on the map itself.

koontz1973 wrote:Your pictures still need to be worked over. Try drawing them yourself. ... the best advice is to practise with your programme.


OK. I'll do my best. It might take some time, though.
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby swimmerdude99 on Thu May 03, 2012 9:59 am

I very much like the shafting/scraped look you have on the territs by the way.
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu May 03, 2012 10:05 am

Thanks! It's a texture called "oil paint" - appropriate, is it not, for the home of one of the world's most famous art museums? :D
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby koontz1973 on Mon May 07, 2012 11:51 pm

Here is a link to a youtube video for you. Take a look and it might give you a background and map style that will work for paris.

It is the same one I looked at for Jakarta.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG5abY2NRKo

Here is a link given to me by natty for a download for gimp. It takes your image and turns it into a painting. Give it a go. (make sure it is on a copy and not the original)
http://gmic.sourceforge.net/
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby ComposerNate on Tue May 08, 2012 9:23 am

Hi there! I have a couple comments.
-I generally like the look of the map itself a lot more than the legend. The text of the legend is pretty distracting and odd. Specifically, the way the part on the left starts in the flag but goes beyond it. I would probably vote for a return to the flag covering the full background, or at least a little more of it, enough to be standard flag proportions. Another point about the text: I don't think the explanation of the ND abbreviation is necessary over on the right. You could work it in with the part on the left: +2 autodeploy on Notre Dame (ND)
-I can imagine it might be confusing to some players as to which territories they need to hold for the victory condition, because the army circle for l'Arc de Triomphe metro station is closer to the picture of the Arc than the circle for the territory itself (which is presumably the one that needs to be held). The same problem could occur to a lesser degree with Bastille and Sacre-Coeur.
-The bridge symbol is a little bland. Maybe you could do something with a graphic of an actual Paris bridge?
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby ComposerNate on Tue May 08, 2012 9:25 am

One more thing: what's the deal with the Asian characters in the upper left?
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Tue May 08, 2012 10:08 am

ComposerNate wrote:-I generally like the look of the map itself a lot more than the legend. The text of the legend is pretty distracting and odd. Specifically, the way the part on the left starts in the flag but goes beyond it. I would probably vote for a return to the flag covering the full background, or at least a little more of it, enough to be standard flag proportions.


What if I moved the text down a little more so it didn't start in the flag? Or made the flag less wide, so it's kind of in the top right corner?

ComposerNate wrote:Another point about the text: I don't think the explanation of the ND abbreviation is necessary over on the right. You could work it in with the part on the left: +2 autodeploy on Notre Dame (ND)


That's a good idea. I think I'll do that. Thank you.

ComposerNate wrote:-I can imagine it might be confusing to some players as to which territories they need to hold for the victory condition, because the army circle for l'Arc de Triomphe metro station is closer to the picture of the Arc than the circle for the territory itself (which is presumably the one that needs to be held). The same problem could occur to a lesser degree with Bastille and Sacre-Coeur.


The métro stations are connected by the métro lines, though. I would hope that would eliminate any confusion. I could switch the two circles so that the lower one was the métro station, though.

ComposerNate wrote:-The bridge symbol is a little bland. Maybe you could do something with a graphic of an actual Paris bridge?


Don't see why not. It might be a little more difficult, but I could figure it out.

ComposerNate wrote:One more thing: what's the deal with the Asian characters in the upper left?


That's the "sempai" in "sempaispellcheck." :D
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby koontz1973 on Tue May 08, 2012 12:19 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:What if I moved the text down a little more so it didn't start in the flag? Or made the flag less wide, so it's kind of in the top right corner?

you are going to have to redo your whole legend from scratch. It is hard to read, looks blurred and is just plain ugly. Not to worry though, it is a very easy thing to fix as you have all of the elements there.

A couple of things to maybe consider is...
Remove the translation of river and put a small portion of the river.
Having bridges there is self explanatory so remove this. Also, you can cross the river by the trains so is also wrong.
Move the playable part of the map up to the top right.
Title, top left.
Bottom right, box it in and place your legend text here. Turn the glow of completely for now.
Bottom left - nice picture. ;)
It does not matter if the map covers part of the flag but this is a lot of wasted space here.

sempaispellcheck wrote:
ComposerNate wrote:Another point about the text: I don't think the explanation of the ND abbreviation is necessary over on the right. You could work it in with the part on the left: +2 autodeploy on Notre Dame (ND)

That's a good idea. I think I'll do that. Thank you.

If you managed to draw the island bigger (you do have room to make it bigger), you can remove the abbreviation completely. ;)

sempaispellcheck wrote:
ComposerNate wrote:-I can imagine it might be confusing to some players as to which territories they need to hold for the victory condition, because the army circle for l'Arc de Triomphe metro station is closer to the picture of the Arc than the circle for the territory itself (which is presumably the one that needs to be held). The same problem could occur to a lesser degree with Bastille and Sacre-Coeur.

The métro stations are connected by the métro lines, though. I would hope that would eliminate any confusion. I could switch the two circles so that the lower one was the métro station, though.

Switching circles is not going to work. You are going to rethink this whole thing. You have three different types of territ and all have the same army circle. Go and have a look at Portland (viewtopic.php?f=64&t=70975) to see a way of doing it. Not saying you should copy this but it is a lot clearer.

sempaispellcheck wrote:
ComposerNate wrote:-The bridge symbol is a little bland. Maybe you could do something with a graphic of an actual Paris bridge?

Don't see why not. It might be a little more difficult, but I could figure it out.

Not to worry yet. This is an easy fix. Use the square select tool, make a square the right size and use the textures that came with Gimp to fill. Then rotate to the correct angle. ;)
sempaispellcheck wrote:
ComposerNate wrote:One more thing: what's the deal with the Asian characters in the upper left?

That's the "sempai" in "sempaispellcheck." :D

Get rid of it. This is Paris, the city of love, onions and long bread. Not Chinese takeout. :P

That should keep you busy for a while. :lol:
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby sempaispellcheck on Tue May 08, 2012 1:21 pm

koontz1973 wrote:This is Paris, the city of love, onions and long bread. Not Chinese takeout. :P


It's Japanese. :x

koontz1973 wrote:That should keep you busy for a while. :lol:


No kidding. :roll:
I don't expect to get any work in on it this week, as it's Finals Week, but I should have a fair amount of time to work on it over the summer.
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby koontz1973 on Tue May 08, 2012 1:25 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:This is Paris, the city of love, onions and long bread. Not Chinese takeout. :P


It's Japanese. :x

koontz1973 wrote:That should keep you busy for a while. :lol:


No kidding. :roll:
I don't expect to get any work in on it this week, as it's Finals Week, but I should have a fair amount of time to work on it over the summer.

Chinese or Japanese take out, it all looks and tastes the same after a few pints. :roll:

Loads of time for this so do not worry about it. Good luck with your finals.
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Thu May 10, 2012 5:15 am

Good job !
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Re: Paris - V6 (5/2) (pgs. 1 & 4) - FEEDBACK PLEASE!!

Postby ComposerNate on Thu May 10, 2012 7:35 am

koontz1973 wrote:
sempaispellcheck wrote:What if I moved the text down a little more so it didn't start in the flag? Or made the flag less wide, so it's kind of in the top right corner?

you are going to have to redo your whole legend from scratch. It is hard to read, looks blurred and is just plain ugly. Not to worry though, it is a very easy thing to fix as you have all of the elements there.

I tend to agree, I just said it more nicely.

koontz1973 wrote:Remove the translation of river and put a small portion of the river.
Having bridges there is self explanatory so remove this. Also, you can cross the river by the trains so is also wrong.

Seine is the name of the river, not the French word for river. However, I tend to agree that rivers and bridges are self-explanatory. Everyone knows how they work so having them in the legend is probably unnecessary.

koontz1973 wrote:
sempaispellcheck wrote:
ComposerNate wrote:-I can imagine it might be confusing to some players as to which territories they need to hold for the victory condition, because the army circle for l'Arc de Triomphe metro station is closer to the picture of the Arc than the circle for the territory itself (which is presumably the one that needs to be held). The same problem could occur to a lesser degree with Bastille and Sacre-Coeur.

The métro stations are connected by the métro lines, though. I would hope that would eliminate any confusion. I could switch the two circles so that the lower one was the métro station, though.

Switching circles is not going to work. You are going to rethink this whole thing. You have three different types of territ and all have the same army circle. Go and have a look at Portland (viewtopic.php?f=64&t=70975) to see a way of doing it. Not saying you should copy this but it is a lot clearer.

Agreed. If you have special types of army circles for the metro lines it will eliminate the confusion. I would still switch the "Arc de Triomphe" text with the (regular) circle, though, to make the circle closer to the graphic.

sempaispellcheck wrote:
ComposerNate wrote:One more thing: what's the deal with the Asian characters in the upper left?

That's the "sempai" in "sempaispellcheck." :D

Aha! Very clever sig! It should be smaller and at the bottom, though.
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