[SCBD] New scoring system after scoreboard reset

[greenoaks]

New scoring system

Concise description:

• Scoreboard reset
• Individual scores for each option

Specifics/Details:

• Everybody starts on 1000 points for each and every game option
• Everybody starts on 1000 points for each and every map
• The current formula remains
• When points are awarded for a win they are calculated separately for each option and the map ie (loser's Freestyle score / winner's Freestyle score) * 20, (loser's Escalating score / winner's Escalating score) * 20, (loser's Speed score / winner's Speed score) * 20, (loser's BeNeLux score / winner's BeNeLux score) * 20

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• It will be possible to see on the scoreboard who is best at Freestyle or 2 min Speed or Trench or Escalating or etc, etc, etc
• It will be possible to see on the scoreboard who is best at Freestyle and 2 min Speed or Casual and Flat Rate
• It will be possible to see on the scoreboard who is best at BeNeLux, Freestyle and 2 min Speed or Classic, Casual and Flat Rate
• It will be possible to see on the scoreboard who is the best overall as specialists will be averaged down by all those 1000's for settings and maps they don't play or don't play well

[agentcom]

I was about to say this has already been suggested, but you have at least tried to solve my main problem with the previous suggestion with this:

When points are awarded for a win they are calculated separately for each option and the map ie (loser's Freestyle score / winner's Freestyle score) * 20, (loser's Escalating score / winner's Escalating score) * 20, (loser's Speed score / winner's Speed score) * 20, (loser's BeNeLux score / winner's BeNeLux score) * 20

That was exactly the problem with the last suggestion. To recap that, I gave an example of a player who lost a shitload of points in one setting but killed it in another setting. Because overall points are not adjusted in any way for game type, you could lose a ton of assassin games, become a private, and win a few terminator games to become Terminator Conqueror. Then just keep your overall score down on other settings to maintain the high points per victory on the setting of your choosing.

I REALLY like this idea IF it can solve that problem, but someone smarter or with more time than me will have to work this out: Could you play a lot of Benelux assassin games where you lose and a lot of Benelux terminator games where you win (thereby bringing down your Benelux score, which is a component in determining your score in Benelux terminator games, and become Terminator Conqueror? My feeling is yes you could. The only way to solve this would be to entirely separate ALL maps/settings combinations: So one could become the Foggy Benelux Escalating Chained Adjacent Trench Speed Conqueror, but not the Terminator Conqueror.

To make this FAR easier to implement but perhaps less cool, you could not factor the 200+ maps into the equation and just do settings combinations.

I would add to this that IF the selective settings point dumping problem can be solved, there should still be an overall scoreboard with total points. But that would just be the sum of all your settings scores. This way the true Conqueror would have to show their abilities across many different settings, but wouldn't have to be afraid of losing a ton of hard-earned points by playing in settings that they don't think they can win overall points from if they played at their current point levels.

[Wudf]

Conquer Club members are initially given a score of 1000. At the end of each game, the winner takes points away from each loser. The points to be awarded is calculated as (loser's score / winner's score) * 20, up to a maximum of 100 points from each opponent.

A single overall score based on current systems fails to approximate the true skill of a player for two reasons

Distinction
Scores do not differentiate proficiency in strategy, tactics, diplomacy, perseverance, foresight, cunning etc. as tested through various game types and options. I believe the ability to proficiently address various scenarios is a trait of a strong player, and that, although the rules outline the way scoring works, many players still misunderstand the score to construe a sense of well rounded skill. The current scoring system does not represent that. A single score provides more accurately as a meter of seniority and self-monitoring than anything else.

Qualitation
The difference between winning and losing a game can be as small as a single decision. The difference in points awarded and lost can be as large as 100 points. This perverse dichotomy is only balanced by equations of scale; as one plays more games, his or her score approaches accurate reflection of his ability to win. But is winning necessarily the same as being skilled? The answer, of course, is no. An unskilled player can win and a skilled player can lose. Look at an 8 person game that is reduced to a 3-way struggle. Those three players each succeeded and deserve recognition. Sometimes it even comes down to who can get to their computer first (freestyle game). This system encourages players to only play with the less skilled with point rewards, and discourages challenging of the more skilled with point deductions.

These two metric failures are important because they contribute to the competitive health of the game, the culture of the community, and the enjoyability of the experience.

• High Noob Farming
• High burnout rate for new players
• High unearned arrogance
• High rank-based metagaming
• High skill:score disparity

[blakebowling]

I was about to say this has already been suggested, but you have at least tried to solve my main problem with the previous suggestion with this:

When points are awarded for a win they are calculated separately for each option and the map ie (loser's Freestyle score / winner's Freestyle score) * 20, (loser's Escalating score / winner's Escalating score) * 20, (loser's Speed score / winner's Speed score) * 20, (loser's BeNeLux score / winner's BeNeLux score) * 20

That was exactly the problem with the last suggestion. To recap that, I gave an example of a player who lost a shitload of points in one setting but killed it in another setting. Because overall points are not adjusted in any way for game type, you could lose a ton of assassin games, become a private, and win a few terminator games to become Terminator Conqueror. Then just keep your overall score down on other settings to maintain the high points per victory on the setting of your choosing.

I REALLY like this idea IF it can solve that problem, but someone smarter or with more time than me will have to work this out: Could you play a lot of Benelux assassin games where you lose and a lot of Benelux terminator games where you win (thereby bringing down your Benelux score, which is a component in determining your score in Benelux terminator games, and become Terminator Conqueror? My feeling is yes you could. The only way to solve this would be to entirely separate ALL maps/settings combinations: So one could become the Foggy Benelux Escalating Chained Adjacent Trench Speed Conqueror, but not the Terminator Conqueror.

To make this FAR easier to implement but perhaps less cool, you could not factor the 200+ maps into the equation and just do settings combinations.

I would add to this that IF the selective settings point dumping problem can be solved, there should still be an overall scoreboard with total points. But that would just be the sum of all your settings scores. This way the true Conqueror would have to show their abilities across many different settings, but wouldn't have to be afraid of losing a ton of hard-earned points by playing in settings that they don't think they can win overall points from if they played at their current point levels.

The point is, there isn't an "overall score". I assume your overall score would be the average of all of your other scores.

[redhawk92]

u can see all this stuff with map rank if you want to know it use map rank

[betiko]

u can see all this stuff with map rank if you want to know it use map rank

+1

no need to go in so much details, you can already have the info in maprank. Nor need to reset the scoreboard, as previous data can be re-used. I am totally in favour of doing it sequential vs freestlye though, as it's 2 game styles that have nothing to do. having 2 scores on your wall would be quite simple. your suggestion would be having like 300+ scores.

[greenoaks]

u can see all this stuff with map rank if you want to know it use map rank

no you can't.

map rank shows the raw points you have from each setting but does not factor in a player's skill on those particular maps/settings.

as a result it is easily skewed by a lack of proficiency on Doodle Assassin to accumulate a lot of points in 4 man Terminator

[agentcom]

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=174172

I've been in favor of the separate scoreboard idea for a while; however, given this nonsense, I am now STRONGLY in favor of, at the bare minimum, a separate scoreboard for freestyle and sequential games. Out of all the options on this site, the difference between those two game types is far and away the most distinct. It is almost a separate game. It doesn't matter is it's the speed or casual forms of those two game types, the biggest changes in game play occur between the freestyle and sequential games.

In recognition of the different types of skills that are required, there should be a separate score kept for these two game types and a separate Conqueror medal awarded.

Lack does make a good point in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=471&t=1752

Some game logs are missing so i can't go back and recalculate all scores. Resetting scores would be be less than ideal. I don't think it's a priority at this time. Them are the reasons.

I do not doubt that the implementation of this will be difficult, but is it really any more difficult or time consuming than the plethora of complaints that arise in C&A because of all the freestyle "ranching" nonsense?

[greenoaks]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=174172

I've been in favor of the separate scoreboard idea for a while; however, given this nonsense, I am now STRONGLY in favor of, at the bare minimum, a separate scoreboard for freestyle and sequential games. Out of all the options on this site, the difference between those two game types is far and away the most distinct. It is almost a separate game. It doesn't matter is it's the speed or casual forms of those two game types, the biggest changes in game play occur between the freestyle and sequential games.

In recognition of the different types of skills that are required, there should be a separate score kept for these two game types and a separate Conqueror medal awarded.

Lack does make a good point in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=471&t=1752

Some game logs are missing so i can't go back and recalculate all scores. Resetting scores would be be less than ideal. I don't think it's a priority at this time. Them are the reasons.

I do not doubt that the implementation of this will be difficult, but is it really any more difficult or time consuming than the plethora of complaints that arise in C&A because of all the freestyle "ranching" nonsense?

Lack has now moved on to greener pastures. perhaps the new management would be more inclined to reset the scores and calculate them individually.

Conquerer could be determined in two ways. an average of your score for each setting (highest average is Conquerer) or a tally of your position on each setting (lowest tally is Conquerer).

[Funkyterrance]

Haha, cool.

[Lord_Bremen]

How about just separating team game scores from individual ones? I don't really understand how winning a 4v4 is somehow similar to winning an 8 person ffa, they are testing totally different skills.

[greenoaks]

How about just separating team game scores from individual ones? I don't really understand how winning a 4v4 is somehow similar to winning an 8 person ffa, they are testing totally different skills.

so you want Team calculate seperate, others think Freestyle should be, or Speed. i would like to know what i am on certain maps.

calculating each setting individually satisfies everyone's opinion of what type of game is totally different.

[Lord_Bremen]

How about just separating team game scores from individual ones? I don't really understand how winning a 4v4 is somehow similar to winning an 8 person ffa, they are testing totally different skills.

so you want Team calculate seperate, others think Freestyle should be, or Speed. i would like to know what i am on certain maps.

calculating each setting individually satisfies everyone's opinion of what type of game is totally different.

Freestyle/speed are just different variants, they still indicate the same basic thing (Risk skill). Team score, on the other hand, is not your ability, but some measure of your ability along with the rest of your team. That's a fundamentally different measure from individual score.

[greenoaks]

How about just separating team game scores from individual ones? I don't really understand how winning a 4v4 is somehow similar to winning an 8 person ffa, they are testing totally different skills.

so you want Team calculate seperate, others think Freestyle should be, or Speed. i would like to know what i am on certain maps.

calculating each setting individually satisfies everyone's opinion of what type of game is totally different.

Freestyle/speed are just different variants, they still indicate the same basic thing (Risk skill). Team score, on the other hand, is not your ability, but some measure of your ability along with the rest of your team. That's a fundamentally different measure from individual score.

and that is the arguement used for Freestyle v Sequential or Classic style maps v Complex.

the xyz required to achieve 1 is totally different to what is required to achieve the other.

split them up.

[Donelladan]

I find the idea really interesting, but not to make a different scoreboard for each settings.
But to prevent people to maintain rank using specific map/settings.

I mean some people may be +4000 on one map with one settings. But their total score is 2000. So they keep using the map where they are best to maintain rank above 2000 since they win easy points. If the points they win/lose by playing a specific map/settings was calculated using their actual rank on that map/setting it would make it more difficult for them to gain a lot of points.

[greenoaks]

I find the idea really interesting, but not to make a different scoreboard for each settings.
But to prevent people to maintain rank using specific map/settings.

I mean some people may be +4000 on one map with one settings. But their total score is 2000. So they keep using the map where they are best to maintain rank above 2000 since they win easy points. If the points they win/lose by playing a specific map/settings was calculated using their actual rank on that map/setting it would make it more difficult for them to gain a lot of points.

yes, i am one of those people that is not just good, but really good at a map & generally crap at most others. when i win on my favourite map i get far more points than my skill on it would suggest because of all the points i lose on other maps (such as Classic).

i would like to know how good i am on that map vs others on that map. likewise there would be many wanting to know how good they truly are at Freestyle vs other Freestylers, or Speed vs Speed, or whatever. our scores or ranks for each setting/map could then be added or averaged to determine the overall Conquerer.

[agentcom]

I'm still intrigued by this idea. I think that a score reset will never, ever happen though. It's not fair to the players that have earned points. It's not fair to the players that will have points taken away by a supposed private who used to be a general.

But the separate scoreboards idea is cool. And like I said way back in the day, this separate scoreboards idea potentially doesn't suffer from the critical flaw of the other similar ideas.

[greenoaks]

I'm still intrigued by this idea. I think that a score reset will never, ever happen though. It's not fair to the players that have earned points. It's not fair to the players that will have points taken away by a supposed private who used to be a general.

But the separate scoreboards idea is cool. And like I said way back in the day, this separate scoreboards idea potentially doesn't suffer from the critical flaw of the other similar ideas.

sometimes biting the bullet is the best way.

as for the points taken away they would happen at first but not for long as we will quickly find our equilibrium point. and everyone will be in the same boat, not 1 player with a point reset or a multie rocketing up the scoreboard becuase they're catching unsuspecting players off-guard.