Feudal England and Wales [14/2] pg 1/8

[koontz1973]

in 600 there were no castles, there were another counties and land dividing.

also Wales was totaly independent and different country to the time when Normans annexed it to England.

BAMBURGH CASTLE
Castles like this have been built since the 3rd century. As the years go on, they got larger and more complex so yes, in the 6th century, they has castles like the ones depicted.

Wales was not a completely independent country. It never really has been.

[Oneyed]

BAMBURGH CASTLE
Castles like this have been built since the 3rd century. As the years go on, they got larger and more complex so yes, in the 6th century, they has castles like the ones depicted.

your picture is "new" Bamburgh castle based on Normans castle. there were some fortifications build on hills but mainly from wood and with look as motley and bailey.

Anglo Saxons did not build castles. only Alfred the Great started build fortifications known as burhs. and they were more walled towns as castles. also there were very few stone fortifications.

Wales was not a completely independent country. It never really has been.

no? and who ruled it after Romans left Britan?

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

BAMBURGH CASTLE
Castles like this have been built since the 3rd century. As the years go on, they got larger and more complex so yes, in the 6th century, they has castles like the ones depicted.

your picture is "new" Bamburgh castle based on Normans castle. there were some fortifications build on hills but mainly from wood and with look as motley and bailey.

Anglo Saxons did not build castles. only Alfred the Great started build fortifications known as burhs. and they were more walled towns as castles. also there were very few stone fortifications.

Wales was not a completely independent country. It never really has been.

no? and who ruled it after Romans left Britan?

Oneyed

Castles or walled fortifications have been around a lot earlier than this. The image produced is OK. There was no distinction between the two until around a 1000AD. The only part of the United Kingdom that has ever been independent of England is Scotland.

[Oneyed]

The image produced is OK. There was no distinction between the two until around a 1000AD.

the image is modern castle. not one from before 1000 AD.

The only part of the United Kingdom that has ever been independent of England is Scotland.

about what you talk here? United Kingdom? this is map of medieval England and Wales was independent long time.

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

No it was not. Wales has never been completely independent. Never has, never will be unless we get another stupid government like we had under Blair and Brown.

Wall fortifications have been around for thousands of years with turrets and battlements as well. The image is fine.

[Oneyed]

No it was not. Wales has never been completely independent. Never has, never will be unless we get another stupid government like we had under Blair and Brown.

then you know very few about Welsh history... because when you say Wales was not completely independent who ruled it after Romans? I ask you second time...

Wall fortifications have been around for thousands of years with turrets and battlements as well. The image is fine.

again and again - this image is modern Bamburgh, build by Normans and then sveral times enlarged and rebuild for centuries...

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

No it was not. Wales has never been completely independent. Never has, never will be unless we get another stupid government like we had under Blair and Brown.

then you know very few about Welsh history... because when you say Wales was not completely independent who ruled it after Romans? I ask you second time...

Wall fortifications have been around for thousands of years with turrets and battlements as well. The image is fine.

again and again - this image is modern Bamburgh, build by Normans and then sveral times enlarged and rebuild for centuries...

Oneyed

I probably know more about Welsh history than you as I am British. After the Romans left, the whole of England was ruled by many different kings know as petty kingdoms. Wales did not get a king of its own till after 1000AD. He was the offspring of two of the houses that ruled over parts of what is now Wales, known as the dark ages. It carried on like this till the 10th century when it was all unified into the Kingdom of England. That is the end of that discussion.

Here is a 6th century castle. End of that one as well.


Now lets get this back onto the map please Oneyed but more than happy to continue your history lesson of my country via PM.

[Oneyed]

I probably know more about Welsh history than you as I am British. After the Romans left, the whole of England was ruled by many different kings know as petty kingdoms. Wales did not get a king of its own till after 1000AD. He was the offspring of two of the houses that ruled over parts of what is now Wales, known as the dark ages. It carried on like this till the 10th century when it was all unified into the Kingdom of England. That is the end of that discussion.

it looks that you missed difference between independent and united. Wales was not united, but it was independent - the petty kingdoms in Wales were brithonic, so no one other ruled Wales, just Welsh... this is better end of discussion

Here is a 6th century castle. End of that one as well.

also you can see difference between this image and the first one posted by you.

Oneyed

[The Bison King]

Interesting very interesting. From what I've been reading it sounds like the stone castle as we know it evolved from wood fortifications some time around 1000-1100 AD. Many fortifications that had been around for hundreds of years were modified and transformed into stone castles.

Whether or not Wales was an independent kingdom is really un-important to this the map. The important part is that it was Wales.

nice idea, I like it.

you can not have map from 600 to 1200. better say you can, but in 600 it was Anglo-Saxon England, in 1200 it was Norman England. there were much differences - in 600 there were no castles, there were another counties and land dividing.

also Wales was totaly independent and different country to the time when Normans annexed it to England.

I advise to go with Norman England around 1200. why? there were castles as you present them, you can find more informations and also because Wales...

I can help you with some things, but much depends on how much you can change gameplay or bonuses, which time period you will choose, how close to reality you can be...

Oneyed

For the most part I think you have the right of it here. I would definitely appreciate your help, and for starters I'll share what's been my primary piece of reference and inspiration for this map.

Click image to enlarge.

This is a page from Joan Bleaus's Atlas Maior of 1665, The Greatest and Finest Atlas ever Published. Obviously the map is from 1665 but the description of the map states:

This map shows the division of England into the seven kingdoms of Kent, Sussex, Wessex, Essex, Nurthumberland, East Anglia, and Mercia, the so called heptarchy.

This is where I puled the bonus divisions from. All the names I just pulled from pretty obvious sources, and I did a bit of research on the castles.

[koontz1973]

Click image to enlarge.

This is a page from Joan Bleaus's Atlas Maior of 1665, The Greatest and Finest Atlas ever Published. Obviously the map is from 1665 but the description of the map states:

This map shows the division of England into the seven kingdoms of Kent, Sussex, Wessex, Essex, Nurthumberland, East Anglia, and Mercia, the so called heptarchy.

This is where I puled the bonus divisions from. All the names I just pulled from pretty obvious sources, and I did a bit of research on the castles.

And not a Wales anywhere in site.

Sorry to of taken the thread over TBK, Oneyed and myself have carried on via PM.

[The Bison King]

That's fine. I don't mind a little debate, so long as it stays on topic and doesn't become personal.

However Wales is right there. In plain view. In the description he's just talking about England, and I haven't once made the argument that Wales was a part of England at this time.

[koontz1973]

Moved this to the Drafting room for you TBK as it is pretty much making itself now. You know the routine, can I get you to fill in the first post for me.

[The Bison King]

Moved this to the Drafting room for you TBK as it is pretty much making itself now. You know the routine, can I get you to fill in the first post for me.

Lol of course.

[Oneyed]

The Bison King, I have some ideas but much depends on how you "see" your map. my main question is about gameplay. is possible to change it or you can go with what you have now. also what about to add any story to map? so not only hold castle and conquer lands, some more bonuses, negative bonuses and so on...

Oneyed

[The Bison King]

The Bison King, I have some ideas but much depends on how you "see" your map. my main question is about gameplay. is possible to change it or you can go with what you have now. also what about to add any story to map? so not only hold castle and conquer lands, some more bonuses, negative bonuses and so on...

Oneyed

I am NOT into that over-complicated recreating history thing. I'm currently playing on that Trafalgar map with it's convoluted mess of bombards and one way attacks and special conditions to make it as much like the battle as possible and I HATE it (no offense to who-ever's map that may be). I want to keep the gameplay simple and like it is now. It's entirely my intention to make a map that is fun to play and easy to understand, that is my primary objective.

I'm not adding a story or anything stupid like that, YOU MAKE THE STORY, the game is the story. I know that the Normans conquered England in 1066 but maybe when YOU play the Saxons and Angles hold England, or maybe the Welsh unite and invade the mainland. You see what I mean?