Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Bubonic Plague on Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Is the box labeled "Roman Government" with the Vicarious Seats part of the the playing map?
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:13 pm

Bubonic Plague wrote:Is the box labeled "Roman Government" with the Vicarious Seats part of the the playing map?



yep. that whole area starts neutral but you can attack it.

the capital of a region can attack its corresponding vicarious seat which then attacks the praetor which then attacks the augustus. and from the augustus you attack the barbarian tribes.
be careful as those are 1-way attacks. so once you advance you can't go back.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Bubonic Plague on Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:02 pm

thanks - now I get it. I thought it was a legend key for the map - didn't know it was part of the map
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Alraun on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:26 am

ender516 wrote:This issue has come up many times in map topics. The fact is that any map that has a winning objective requires you to hold the appropriate territories for a full turn. The game engine does not support an instant win. (The newer losing conditions or "requirements" can cause an instant loss, however.) See the bottom of this page of the instructions: http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?m ... tructions6
The question of how to make clear the need to hold the objective has generally been settled in favour of the use of the word "hold" in the legend, rather than, say, "conquer".


It should say HOLD FOR ONE COMPLETE TURN. Just the word "hold" is unacceptably unobvious. I just discovered the hard way when I fulfilled the objective and didn't win. I'm pretty pissed about this. Found this thread specifically to ask why the hell I didn't win. There's plenty of room to make the text more clear. This map does a very good job of explaining all the rules and then it's an epic fail on the single most important thing.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby natty dread on Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:36 am

Alraun wrote:It should say HOLD FOR ONE COMPLETE TURN. Just the word "hold" is unacceptably unobvious. I just discovered the hard way when I fulfilled the objective and didn't win. I'm pretty pissed about this. Found this thread specifically to ask why the hell I didn't win. There's plenty of room to make the text more clear. This map does a very good job of explaining all the rules and then it's an epic fail on the single most important thing.


http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?m ... tructions6
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby ender516 on Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:59 pm

When all else fails, read the instructions.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Alraun on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:06 pm

natty dread wrote:
Alraun wrote:It should say HOLD FOR ONE COMPLETE TURN. Just the word "hold" is unacceptably unobvious. I just discovered the hard way when I fulfilled the objective and didn't win. I'm pretty pissed about this. Found this thread specifically to ask why the hell I didn't win. There's plenty of room to make the text more clear. This map does a very good job of explaining all the rules and then it's an epic fail on the single most important thing.


http://www.conquerclub.com/public.php?m ... tructions6


Yeah, no, that page does not in any way make it clear that if someone just uses the word "hold" that that's what it means. And even if it did, it's not justifiable when you can just add four more words to explain the rules clearly right on the map. There are times when using abbreviations make sense, but not when it comes to victory conditions.

I guess the motto of this site is "anything for a cheap win" though, and this fits right into that.
Last edited by Alraun on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Alraun on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:07 pm

ender516 wrote:When all else fails, read the instructions.


And make the exact same mistake because the instructions are unclear, which was my entire point.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby natty dread on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:20 pm

Victory Conditions / Map Objectives

Some maps have 'victory' objectives, which you must conquer and hold for one round to win the game. If you are holding an objective, you will win the game at the moment you press the "Begin Turn" button, even in assassin and terminator games (think of this as the ultimate zone bonus). In team games, as with bonuses, the objective must be held by a single player.


I don't know how it can get any clearer than that.

The fact that all victory conditions need to be held for one round is written in the instructions, and thus it has been decided that it doesn't need to be explicitly spelled out on maps.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby DiM on Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:31 pm

natty dread wrote:I don't know how it can get any clearer than that.


senor, yo no hablo ingles. :cry:
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby GoolGaul on Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:27 pm

just played this for the first time. took a few turns before I really got it, but I LOVE this map!

looks like one of those maps that once you get it, you win most of the games you play on it...
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby talonz on Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:15 pm

Ive been playing this quite a bit recently and have won it twice iirc. I find that each player having a barbarian tribe skews the action to the west where they congregate, so if a player starts in the east with a tribe, and can take control of large portions of the east, the rest will be left fighting over the west while that player grows stronger in the east until he wins, which is how I got my wins on this map.

Maybe a problem, maybe not. Definitely a problem if all players dont recognize this. Moving the barbarian entry points further east a bit may help.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Kabanellas on Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:51 am

:)

Well, I've tested this map a lot, being that one of my worries. But on the games I've played I couldn't find any pattern that would indicate me that. Independently from the game type...
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby b2minus4ac on Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:57 pm

i m playing this map now and cannot figure out which is a vicarious and how do we get bonus armies. I conquered the whole of italy but still no bonus
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby ender516 on Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:35 am

The capitals, circled in yellow, like Roma and Medio. (Mediolanum), assault their corresponding vicarious seats, depicted in the legend. Those receive +1 autodeploys plus +1 troops for every 2 regions in their diocesis, so you should get a lot more troops per turn once you take them.

P.S. "Radical" username, dude!
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby LeFrench on Sun May 27, 2012 8:14 pm

I'm playing this map, its great but i think there may be a math error in the east.
I hold the praetor (Orientis) and you are supposed to be awarded +1 troop for every 4 regions in his preatorship.
i hold 28 regions and yet am gaining only +6.

I've also noticed that sometimes i am not awarded the praetor bonus if the vicarious seat is not owned for the regions
in the praetor, though in the above example, i own ALL the orientis vicarious seats.
anyway something is off with the scripting.

consider this a bug report.

cheers
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby ender516 on Sun May 27, 2012 10:29 pm

LeFrench wrote:I'm playing this map, its great but i think there may be a math error in the east.
I hold the praetor (Orientis) and you are supposed to be awarded +1 troop for every 4 regions in his preatorship.
i hold 28 regions and yet am gaining only +6.

I've also noticed that sometimes i am not awarded the praetor bonus if the vicarious seat is not owned for the regions
in the praetor, though in the above example, i own ALL the orientis vicarious seats.
anyway something is off with the scripting.

consider this a bug report.

cheers
Lefrench

It's always best to post a game number so others can check out your concerns.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby LeFrench on Mon May 28, 2012 1:56 pm

well, its game 10809390. Its ongoing. and i'm staring at the weird math bug now.

but you won't be able to examine it properly. its a "fog" game :(

the technical support guy already told me as much.
i'm Yellow, own all the green except 2 (there are 30 in total), and for some reason the praetor is still coming up +6

thanks for commenting tho.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby ender516 on Mon May 28, 2012 11:47 pm

I just read the XML, and I think you're right. The continents concerned with Orientis Praefectura require 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, and 30 troops, and, when held with Orientis Praetor, provide 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 troops. However, by my count of the territories included in those continents in the XML, there are 31 territories in the Orientis Praefectura. In any case, no chance for eight bonus troops, but that 7 should kick in at 28 territories.
The XML shows these territories in the Orientis Praefectura:
Code: Select all
      <territory>Constantinopolis (Imperial Capital)</territory>
      <territory>TI</territory>
      <territory>TII (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>TIII</territory>
      <territory>TIV</territory>
      <territory>Nicomedia</territory>
      <territory>PI</territory>
      <territory>PII</territory>
      <territory>PIII</territory>
      <territory>PIV</territory>
      <territory>PV</territory>
      <territory>Ephesus</territory>
      <territory>AI</territory>
      <territory>AII</territory>
      <territory>AIII</territory>
      <territory>AIV (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>AV</territory>
      <territory>Antiochia</territory>
      <territory>OI</territory>
      <territory>OII (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>OIII</territory>
      <territory>OIV</territory>
      <territory>OV</territory>
      <territory>OVI</territory>
      <territory>OVII</territory>
      <territory>Alexandria</territory>
      <territory>AEI</territory>
      <territory>AEII</territory>
      <territory>AEIII (Legion)</territory>
      <territory>AEIV</territory>
      <territory>AEV</territory>

So if you have all but 2, that makes 29, which will only get you 6 with the existing bonus structure. But based on the legend, that's wrong.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby LeFrench on Tue May 29, 2012 5:18 pm

ah, cool. good to know.

i guess someone doesn't know their x4 multiplication tables :)

thanks for the time and effort.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Kabanellas on Wed May 30, 2012 9:46 am

I'll correct it asap guys! thanks for noticing it :)
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby Kabanellas on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:07 am

XML - corrected:

http://www.freewebs.com/kabanellas/Conquer_Rome_V1.6a.xml

I've also noticed a lot of overrides on continents... I don't have the slightest idea why I did it at the time, but I don't think that's necessary. It's just a waste of space.
Ender, you're the expert, what do you think? :)

Example:
Code: Select all
<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 4</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 6</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 6</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby ender516 on Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:43 pm

It's getting a bit late for me to do any serious reading tonight, and I will be busy tomorrow with my daughter's dance recital, so if I don't post something more pertinent in a couple of days, bump this thread or send me a PM.
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:53 am

The new files have now been uploaded!! :D
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Re: Conquer Rome (The Fall of the Roman Empire) [Quenched]

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:28 am

Kabanellas wrote:XML - corrected:

http://www.freewebs.com/kabanellas/Conquer_Rome_V1.6a.xml

I've also noticed a lot of overrides on continents... I don't have the slightest idea why I did it at the time, but I don't think that's necessary. It's just a waste of space.
Ender, you're the expert, what do you think? :)

Example:
Code: Select all
<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</name>
   <bonus>2</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 4</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>
<continent>
   <name>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 6</name>
   <bonus>3</bonus>
   <components>
      <territory>Roma Vicarious</territory>
      <continent>Italia Suburbicaria 6</continent>
   </components>
   <overrides>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 2</override>
      <override>Vicarious + Italia Sub. 4</override>
   </overrides>
</continent>


The overrides need to be in place so that a person can't get the +1, +2, and +3 for holding 6 terts, correct? Removing them would yield a +6 for holding Italia Sub. 6. If you change that, the legend would need to be updated as well, which I think at this would be change for the sake of change.
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