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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:01 am

koontz1973 wrote:Hex grid - did not try very hard as I did not want it but it did not work.


I won't bring it up again, other than to say I think you add some unnecessary complexity / confusion to a map with the current set-up.

Best of luck,


--Andy
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:19 am

AndyDufresne wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Hex grid - did not try very hard as I did not want it but it did not work.


I won't bring it up again, other than to say I think you add some unnecessary complexity / confusion to a map with the current set-up.

Best of luck,


--Andy

Andy, never got a problem trying things out, if it makes a better map, then so be it. But let me explain why the current set up. When I first tried this idea out on paper, I tried hexes and normal territs. But when I looked into the idea for a maze style map, one of the things that came to me was that mazes tend to be in straight lines or curves.
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I tried the circular maze with Angels and Demons (intend to go back to that some point). This had a normal territ design with circular walls but with the same maze feel as this one. But the style of map I chose was not good so dropped the idea. With Knights going into Beta, it became obvious that having square territs was OK and could be used for some maps. So I went back to it and had another look at this set up. Been playing around with hexes for a World War 2 Pacific map so gave that a go. But it did not mesh with the straight lines of the map. How can you get a straight wall to fit into territs that curve going down. Again, I came back to squares. Unlike Kings Court which is a great map and would love to one day make a map half as good as Kabs, the starting territs are all at the sides of the map. Why, well you can only get into a maze from the edges. :P This again caused problems with the hex grid as it became plainly obvious that to balance as much as possible the 8 starting territs was going to be nigh on imposable (for me) for a 1v1 game and also the 8 player game.

So with the squares chosen, it gave me a lot of advantages.

    -Allows me to make the map with a lot of territs and not go over the max for the small map size. As this is now the rule, why start something only to have it stopped later.
    -Allow me to make the squares smaller as each one does not need to fit a name into it. This means that some of the confusion is removed.
    -Gives me the opportunity to balance the map, as nole found when he looked at it, from each starting position, the difference is only one neutral.

These reasons and also, I like the way it looks :mrgreen: gives me a better opportunity to create something that is not only unique to the site. ;) Believe me when I say that between this update and the last, I did go back and try to find a way to accommodate you with the hexes.
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:36 pm

I am not saying there aren't good reasons for squares! :D I just think your map would be better overall with the other look. But I'm zipping my lips now.


--Andy
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby DiM on Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:41 pm

hexes can create perfectly straight lines just like in the second image of the hedge labyrinth (not labArinth)
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:54 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I am not saying there aren't good reasons for squares! :D I just think your map would be better overall with the other look. But I'm zipping my lips now.


--Andy

Never zip the lips Andy, not only will it hurt, but I want your comments. Will go and have another look at it for you.

[quote"DiM"]hexes can create perfectly straight lines just like in the second image of the hedge labyrinth (not labArinth)[/quote]
You are right, going at the angle. :oops:
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby chapcrap on Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:56 pm

I agree with the difficulty reading the letters and numbers for the grids.

I think lightening the starting terts was good, but some are still difficult. Maybe they should not have the black lines on the terts. I think that's the problem.
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:15 pm

Still not convinced that this is a better way to go and this is only a preliminary mock up.
Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4 hex test image page 6

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:42 pm

Not a fan of that at all. I like the grid system.
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4 hex test image page 6

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:52 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Not a fan of that at all. I like the grid system.

What he said!!
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4 hex test image page 6

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:11 pm

What if, what if you did pentagons? Haha, it would be cool, but it probably wouldn't work!

Anywho, I mainly stopped in here because *labyrinth* is spelled wrong!

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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4 hex test image page 6

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:36 am

Only in the title, not on the map itself.
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:51 am

koontz1973 wrote:Still not convinced that this is a better way to go and this is only a preliminary mock up.


Hm, I think misspoke earlier. Instead of hexagons, could you use 'squares' with rounded corners? That is more of what I meant, I just didn't explain it very well.

Essentially, if you eliminate the corner aspect, you don't need to explain the movement, and you can do all the straight lines you want, and it doesn't look as cluttered as hexagons can look.

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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:53 am

AndyDufresne wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Still not convinced that this is a better way to go and this is only a preliminary mock up.


Hm, I think misspoke earlier. Instead of hexagons, could you use 'squares' with rounded corners? That is more of what I meant, I just didn't explain it very well.

Essentially, if you eliminate the corner aspect, you don't need to explain the movement, and you can do all the straight lines you want, and it doesn't look as cluttered as hexagons can look.

Image


--Andy

Now that I can do quite happily. Now that Andy is on board, I will go ahead with this one as squares. Expect a proper update soonish. :D
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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4 hex test image page 6

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:55 am

Of course the area doesn't have to be black, it can be green, or whatever. If you give the regions a defined shape like that, it might just function and look better.

My apologies for being unclear earlier.


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Re: Labarinth [3/6] V11 P4 hex test image page 6

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:02 am

Andy, not a problem at all. It could of turned out a better map this way, and the only way to know is to try. Will use a stone like on G3 but smaller. That way, it will keep the look and feel and will not need to add anything to the impassable part of the legend.
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Re: Labyrinth [7/6] V12 Page 6

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:25 pm

Click image to enlarge.
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Stones at corners.

Does that work?
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Re: Labyrinth [7/6] V12 Page 6

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:41 pm

Oh my... This is looking lovely. I like the look of your stones, koontz. ;)
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Re: Labyrinth [7/6] V12 Page 6

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:11 pm

Thanks chapcrap.

OK, I am now pretty sure this is the final version game play wise. Can I ask the blue boys for game play to give me any changes they want to see in the way of neutrals and bonuses please.
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Re: Labyrinth [8/6] V13 Page 7

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:46 am

Added Prometheus fire traps out side of each starting territ. These are killer neutrals to make the game a tad more fun. :lol:
Minor changes to the map.
Spelling mistakes fixed.
Just need the get go from the game play boys. :P

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Re: Labyrinth [8/6] V13 Page 7

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 2:41 pm

The traps are kind of pointless around the edges, they would need to be beside 1 territ, not 2 to be effective.
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Re: Labyrinth [8/6] V13 Page 7

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:47 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:The traps are kind of pointless around the edges, they would need to be beside 1 territ, not 2 to be effective.


Here I will have to disagree with you. You are right that they may never get used, but the purpose of them is to give players a choice. Do I go over the more neutrals of the dead warriors or take a quicker path and lose a man only to get him back with the easier bonus of the Minotaur. With the reinforcements set at 1 for 4, you are only going to get three for the first couple of goes. So do you really want to try your luck going 3 against 2 neutrals for two turns?
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Re: Labyrinth [8/6] V13 Page 7

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:50 pm

But if you take the trap, you are getting only 2 to go against anything. If you go for the Minotaur, and take the trap, you are only back at 3 reinfiorcements per turn. So why not just build the dead warrior up?

EDIT: playing nuclear, I would take a trap.
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Re: Labyrinth [8/6] V13 Page 7

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:57 pm

Because if you take the trap, you have 3 territs and as soon as the Pegasaus is taken, you are back to your 3 reinforcements (if you have taken the swords and food).
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Re: Labyrinth [8/6] V13 Page 7

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:03 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Because if you take the trap, you have 3 territs and as soon as the Pegasaus is taken, you are back to your 3 reinforcements (if you have taken the swords and food).

I'm sorry, I don't understand. It says 1 reinforcement for 4 territs. Does that mean it starts at 3 and when you get 4 territs, you are at 5?

The sword is a bonus of 0 until you have 5. The food is a bonus of 0 until you have 3. There is no bonus listed for the Pegasus so I really am not following here.
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Re: Labyrinth [8/6] V13 Page 7

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:11 pm

Sorry, the normal reinforcements you get in games for holding territories.
So you start at 3, get the +2 auto deploy and attack. When you hold four territs, you get +1. This is the same as in all games but instead of the normal 1 for 3 territs, it is 1 for 4 territ. So every 4 you get, your normal reinforcements goes up by 1. But now as you mentioned it, I need to change it to 1 for every 5 territs to counter the slaves entrance.
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:57 am
Medals: 117
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (13) Clan Achievement (5) Map Contribution (12)
Tournament Contribution (31) General Contribution (10)

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