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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby AgentSmith88 on Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:34 pm

The Voice wrote:Com'on, guys. No single person is going to get everything he or she wants. If I'm not mistaken, the CLA exists so that every competitive clan can have a voice if it so chooses. If we can't be reasonable, at the very least civil, this thread will soon be archived and locked, and we'll have to start from square one again. Let's not make this about who can put the most exclamation points in a post or throws the most insults.

EDIT: Didn't see lynch's post. More should be like this. So, what if round limits were mandated for every trench game?


Am I missing something? Is there any reason to not put round limits on ALL games? If you have a no spoils game that is going on past 30 rounds that will take just as long as a trench game doing the same. And obviously an escalating game should be done long before a round limit is up as well. Could someone point out why we shouldn't have a 20/30/50 round limit on every single game? If everyone knows going in and it's getting close then the clan who prepares for it will get the win. How is this less strategic than a grind it out game?
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Qwert on Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:10 am

Crazyirishman wrote:I personally think the allowed game limit per round needs to be bumped up from 3 per week. It makes it harder to put people in on maps if one or two players go on vacation or turn premium. This would allow more flexibility from week to week and would help if you happen to get a set of away games where only a couple players are familiar with the settings. Since the home games are locked in having 3 slots limits what they could in the away games.


I dont quite understand what you mean? In every round player can play maximum 3 game, and this its enough number consider that one round have 8 games. Each round are separate , one round you play home, maximum 3 game,next round play away, again maximum 3 games.
If you have player who want to play in every round,then he could play maximum 78 games, and its this not enough,then i dont know how many games need to be limit???
Ofcourse if he play every round 3 games,then some of players will be in problem to get medals,if they become winner.
Also you need to have minimum 10 diferent players in each round.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:46 am

We need feedback - which is more important, winning the most games, or winning the most weeks? Which one should be more important? Seeing how some of the luck has gone in CL4 with the small sets, I'd be inclined to agree with ahunda and say that it should be just on the basis of total wins over the season, not points for a win or a draw.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Qwert on Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:59 am

Ace Rimmer wrote:We need feedback - which is more important, winning the most games, or winning the most weeks? Which one should be more important? Seeing how some of the luck has gone in CL4 with the small sets, I'd be inclined to agree with ahunda and say that it should be just on the basis of total wins over the season, not points for a win or a draw.


No need to have any feedback, Award system are decide, and this will be point award. And this Luck in CL4? All favorites play in First division,so i realy dont see luck there. Luck will be that Kort-IA-TSM- or some other high ranked clan ,not manage to qualify into division 1. Win and draw are two thing what its importan in any league.
In football you play 90 minute and win with 1 goal, and sometime you play draw. Sometime big favorite play draw with most veak opponent,and again its ok. If i need to do some statistic for CL4, to see how many top 10 clans lost games,against clans belove 10th place, to prove that luck dont have big impact, then ok.

++++++++++++++++++++++++
here we go statistic(top 10 clans from 400 ranking)
kort -win 4
tofu -win 4
pack-win 3 -draw 1
tsm -win 3-lost 1
emp -win 3
ia -win 4
aoc -win 4-draw 1
lhdd -win 1-draw 1-lost 1
afos -win 2-draw 3
pig -win 3-lost 1
=================
now some people say"its a small number of games,luck can be involve" but statistic say totaly opposite. Top 10 clans play against clans belove 10th place -41 match,and score are 31 win-7 draw and 3 lost. This mean that top 10 clans have 75% of succes, but if you count draw also(they not defeated) then succes are 92,68% of succes. I think that luck dont have any impact on top 10 clans, because they lost only 3 game against clans belove top 10.
What i need to do next to prove that luck are not big factor in clan league?
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby ViperOverLord on Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:21 pm

I don't want to see trench games in the competition. To me it's about as necessary as doing freestyle. They are specialized styles of play that seem counter intuitive to clan gaming competitions.

I am fine with nuclear.

I'd prefer to stay away from unlimited. Most clans don't seem to like unlimited so I'm going with the majority on that. If I felt that most clans did like unlimited then I'd maybe vote for it. But since the prevailing preference is against it then I think that it is suitable to avoid it.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby ViperOverLord on Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:29 pm

qwert wrote:++++++++++++++++++++++++
here we go statistic(top 10 clans from 400 ranking)
kort -win 4
tofu -win 4
pack-win 3 -draw 1
tsm -win 3-lost 1
emp -win 3
ia -win 4
aoc -win 4-draw 1
lhdd -win 1-draw 1-lost 1
afos -win 2-draw 3
pig -win 3-lost 1
=================
now some people say"its a small number of games,luck can be involve" but statistic say totaly opposite. Top 10 clans play against clans belove 10th place -41 match,and score are 31 win-7 draw and 3 lost. This mean that top 10 clans have 75% of succes, but if you count draw also(they not defeated) then succes are 92,68% of succes. I think that luck dont have any impact on top 10 clans, because they lost only 3 game against clans belove top 10.
What i need to do next to prove that luck are not big factor in clan league?


I don't know where we left off on a prelim competition for league position? We just lost to LHDD by 1. We would like a chance to make it into the premier league from the start rather than be relegated by a formula. Let teams earn their way into the leagues based on merit, not legacy.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby IcePack on Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:31 pm

Maybe first year have a play in and all years after based on previous finishing positions?
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Qwert on Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:45 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
qwert wrote:++++++++++++++++++++++++
here we go statistic(top 10 clans from 400 ranking)
kort -win 4
tofu -win 4
pack-win 3 -draw 1
tsm -win 3-lost 1
emp -win 3
ia -win 4
aoc -win 4-draw 1
lhdd -win 1-draw 1-lost 1
afos -win 2-draw 3
pig -win 3-lost 1
=================
now some people say"its a small number of games,luck can be involve" but statistic say totaly opposite. Top 10 clans play against clans belove 10th place -41 match,and score are 31 win-7 draw and 3 lost. This mean that top 10 clans have 75% of succes, but if you count draw also(they not defeated) then succes are 92,68% of succes. I think that luck dont have any impact on top 10 clans, because they lost only 3 game against clans belove top 10.
What i need to do next to prove that luck are not big factor in clan league?


I don't know where we left off on a prelim competition for league position? We just lost to LHDD by 1. We would like a chance to make it into the premier league from the start rather than be relegated by a formula. Let teams earn their way into the leagues based on merit, not legacy.

This mine post dont have nothing with league position,its some example from CL4, and how top 10 clans from 400 ranking ,win almost all games, and this mean that luck have little impact on games.

Now , there its no chance for any preliminary competition for league position. Its will be decide by 400 algoritm ranking,or by final score by CL4(if this become official new league), or some combination of bouth.
Last ranking update(6-06-2012) show that Manifest Destinu are ranked 19, so this mean that your clan are qualify to be in First league. This mean that you need to move to position 14 for Premier LEague. September are far away,so your clan still have chance to move up on algoritm 400 ranking.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Qwert on Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:59 pm

>>I'd prefer to stay away from unlimited. Most clans don't seem to like unlimited so I'm going with the majority on that. If I felt that most clans did like unlimited then I'd maybe vote for it. But since the prevailing preference is against it then I think that it is suitable to avoid it.<<

ok, good to know this. Somehow im in a middle for this settings, some people like and some people dont like.
So i have several option with this
1. no unlimited
2. yes unlimited
3.yes unlimited with limited game to use
=================================
ok,this will still open for final decision.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby niMic on Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:22 pm

No unlimited would be a disastrous decision.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Fewnix on Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:59 pm

Looks like most to the clans buy into e CC Clan League Suggest we start to move it out of the foundry to Beta and make it work. Hits happen and bugs can be worked on. But it's all good.

\:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

Is there a motion needed at the Clan League Association ? a founding meeting, draft constitution, grant of charters,schedules to go to the printers ,hiring of a Commissioner, appointing neutral umpires/referees to deal with minor disputes, appeal to the Commissioners, fina appeals to the owners, Labour day kick-off doable?

Whatever ground rules as to settings etc, can be worked out on paper , subject to easy amendment or erasure. Maybe a 3 month trial period to work out bugs,, see how we do and then review if any changes needed for the rest of the initial season. Final review, put in pen after that. Beta goes out the door.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby josko.ri on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:25 am

qwert wrote:>>I'd prefer to stay away from unlimited. Most clans don't seem to like unlimited so I'm going with the majority on that. If I felt that most clans did like unlimited then I'd maybe vote for it. But since the prevailing preference is against it then I think that it is suitable to avoid it.<<

ok, good to know this. Somehow im in a middle for this settings, some people like and some people dont like.
So i have several option with this
1. no unlimited
2. yes unlimited
3.yes unlimited with limited game to use
=================================
ok,this will still open for final decision.


here are facts how much unlimited was used in CL4, and how much adjacent was used in CL4:

number of unlimited games: Total 63 (even with limitation of 2 per set)
D1: 22 (used like home map by 7 different clans)
D2: 20 (used like home map by 6 different clans)
D3: 16
D4: 3
D5: 2

number of adjacent games: Total 36 (without any limitation)
D1: 18 (used like home map by 4 different clans)
D2: 5 (used like home map by 2 different clans)
D3: 6
D4: 7
D5: 0

Those numbers prove that statement "Most clans don't seem to like unlimited" is false. in D1 and D2, 13 out of 16 clans used unlimited, while only 6 out of 16 clans used adjacent for their home settings.
Do not forget, unlimited fort was limited to maximal 2 per set, and adjacent was not limited at all. so unlimited fort is probably more popular than those numbers says.
so if you put limit on unlimited fort, because "Most clans don't seem to like unlimited" then please put limit on adjacent aswell because number of games played on adjacent provs that settings are way less popular than unlimited fort.
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Qwert on Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:56 am

number of unlimited games: Total 63 (even with limitation of 2 per set)
D1: 22 (used like home map by 7 different clans)
D2: 20 (used like home map by 6 different clans)
D3: 16
D4: 3
D5: 2
---------------and awailabile are 14 times per clan,right? this give you number per division 112 times.
So in all 5 division, availabile games for unlimited fortification are over 500 games. And clans only use in 63 games.
Then i dont know why organisers of CL4 ,put limitation on Unlimited forts?
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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Qwert on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:03 pm

well i start of redesign of tables,because old tables dont look so good.

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Re: CC Clan League - Premier <> First <> Qualification

Postby Qwert on Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:28 pm

well sometime idea come sudenly,in discusion from other topics, so i include this rule(colored blue).
TIEBREAK
If points are equal between two or more Clans, the rules are:

1.tiebreakers between two clan are applied in the following order:

a)Game difference for the entire season
b)Head-to-head results.
c)Most away wins for the entire season

2.If the tie is between more than two clans, then the tie is broken, using the games the clans have played against each other:
a) head-to-head points
b) head-to-head game difference
c)head-to-head away game wins
d)Most away wins for the entire season



3.If the tie is still not broken, it will be resolved with a tie-break match[TBD]
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