Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Bones2484 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:53 am

Leehar wrote:To be fair tho, Cheme has moved his clan out of the CLA himself, and isn't involved in the running of the CL4 in any way either, so it would make sense if he only created this thread to save him some CD headaches with a lot of trolling reporting going on in the other one I assume?


Oh, ok. Thank you for the thoughts! Makes sense. Guess I'm preaching to the choir, then...
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby chemefreak on Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:56 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Leehar wrote:To be fair tho, Cheme has moved his clan out of the CLA himself, and isn't involved in the running of the CL4 in any way either, so it would make sense if he only created this thread to save him some CD headaches with a lot of trolling reporting going on in the other one I assume?


Oh, ok. Thank you for the thoughts! Makes sense. Guess I'm preaching to the choir, then...


Leehar knows all! Most of you know how calculating I am and that I wouldn't do anything like this in a vacuum. The proper way to improve CL5 is to contact your CLA rep and have them post it in the CLA thread regarding improvements. Not by stirring up trouble in the main thread.

BTW, I have actually worked quite closely with RJ and DJ on certain aspects of the the Clan League. The CDs are not taking credit for any of it, though. The event is a massive undertaking and we truly appreciate the CLA, RJ, and DJ for working so hard on this clan event. DJ and RJ's attention, perseverance, and time have made the whole thing happen. They should be applauded, not criticized.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Leehar on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:00 pm

For the Record though, the Brainchild was Josko's? ;)

Tho obv Masli was involved in ensuring it was considered by the CLA, and I hear Chariot may be involved in the initial Idea, the framework of the League in this iteration was largely Josko's work?
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby chemefreak on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:21 pm

Leehar wrote:For the Record though, the Brainchild was Josko's? ;)

Tho obv Masli was involved in ensuring it was considered by the CLA, and I hear Chariot may be involved in the initial Idea, the framework of the League in this iteration was largely Josko's work?


I believe you are right. I think Josko and a group of players provided the framework for this league. Now, that being said, things have changed...almost to the point where some who deserve credit won't take it for fear of getting the credit! However, DJ and RJ are the ones that have spent HOURS upon HOURS making this thing run. They should be commended and improvements suggested through the proper outlets.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Leehar on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:32 pm

chemefreak wrote:
Leehar wrote:For the Record though, the Brainchild was Josko's? ;)

Tho obv Masli was involved in ensuring it was considered by the CLA, and I hear Chariot may be involved in the initial Idea, the framework of the League in this iteration was largely Josko's work?


I believe you are right. I think Josko and a group of players provided the framework for this league. Now, that being said, things have changed...almost to the point where some who deserve credit won't take it for fear of getting the credit! However, DJ and RJ are the ones that have spent HOURS upon HOURS making this thing run. They should be commended and improvements suggested through the proper outlets.

Of course and I wouldn't want anyone to think otherwise.

The Operational Management has been superb, by dj and wp especially, but by all the individual directors as well! =D>

However, This Thread is for Complaints! So anymore OT congrats and some Trolling bans will be needed ;)
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby WPBRJ on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:03 pm

Leehar wrote:For the Record though, the Brainchild was Josko's? ;)

Tho obv Masli was involved in ensuring it was considered by the CLA, and I hear Chariot may be involved in the initial Idea, the framework of the League in this iteration was largely Josko's work?


not really sure how much josko had to do with the format due to i seen way back when the general out line from masli before any one was even thinking of running it. this was before my format that i proposed but i will say he obviously josko had some thing to do with it and he and masli had a great thought that i support 100% or i would have never joined DJ to run it.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Teflon Kris on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:04 pm

chapcrap wrote: I feel like I should be able to play for someone at least. I mean, both of the clans are still in the competition, so it's not like being cup tied in CC3.


Its exactly the dame - you are league-tied.

However, you aren't league-cup tied - so you can play in the cup/trophy/shield/vase for your new clan.

:)
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Teflon Kris on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:05 pm

Leehar wrote:For the Record though, the Brainchild was Josko's? ;)

Tho obv Masli was involved in ensuring it was considered by the CLA, and I hear Chariot may be involved in the initial Idea, the framework of the League in this iteration was largely Josko's work?


They put a framework together and explained it in the CLA forum - people voted for it so we added detail and made a couple of minor amendments for practical reasons. The format was ambitious but we have hopefully helped it to happen.
Last edited by Teflon Kris on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby Teflon Kris on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:14 pm

Lindax wrote:I just wish I had a clue what the Clan League is all about.

I don't know who we're playing (abbreviations of clans), I don't know where were standing, I don't know what I'm playing for, I don't know what settings we can and can't use and why, etc., etc.

This whole thing has gotten so complicated that even with my high intelligence level I cannot see the forest through the trees.

I'm going to ask my clan person in charge of clan wars to leave me out of this.

Lx


Hopefully, time will enable more people to have a better understanding.

Points raised in this thread will be taken to the CL5 discussion thread in the CLA.

For my part, I wish to see some consistency with the clan league so that the format doesn't change massively each year - there was nothing wrong with the previous leagues whatsoever, but the changing format created a problem within the CLA when jp handed it over - with too much of an empty canvas, democratic agreement on what colour paint we wanted to use for CL4 took months ... :roll: ... and months ... :roll: ... and months ... :roll:

So, the plan here is to create a consistent format and tweak details each year, well in advance of the following year. Change but not massive overhaul. And preferably change in-between seasons rather than during. ;)

So, keep moaning folks and we'll filter out the suggestions and discuss them. Everything wont be changed though, as consistency is needed to help everyone understand the league.

Back to Lx's point about complication - one potential amendment could be to adapt the format a little so that rounds are fortnightly. The weekly schedule tends to bring the next round along too quickly for many clans' liking, players cant keep up with what all the different rounds they are playing in and it also creates the situation where many rounds are on-going at once. With fortnightly rounds, clans will have a better idea how they are performing within their division mid-way through each phase (as some rounds will have finished), rather than all of the results coming in almost at once in a manic finale. Of course, fortnightly rounds would mean that there would need to be at least one phase fewer in the season however. Feel free to discuss further ...

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Re: Clan League Complaint Box

Postby IcePack on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:51 pm

DJ Teflon wrote:
chapcrap wrote: I feel like I should be able to play for someone at least. I mean, both of the clans are still in the competition, so it's not like being cup tied in CC3.


Its exactly the dame - you are league-tied.

However, you aren't league-cup tied - so you can play in the cup/trophy/shield/vase for your new clan.

:)


It's not the same, with CUP TIED rule of both clans remain in the competition he can move clans for the next round. only if his former clan was knocked out would he be in eligible for future rounds with the new clan.

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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby Qwert on Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:29 pm

i will propose for CL5 system where you will play 13 rounds,and this will be similar to real footbal divisions.
Now CL4 will be played in 16 rounds (first phase-5=second phase 7=third phase 3=final 1)
Its will be great that finaly its time for real Division Leagues be created.
Premier League-14 clans (rules for play will be similar to CL4 with home away games(two double -two triple-two quads)(this will play 13 rounds,low then CL4)
First League 14 clans
Third League -14 clans
Forth League-all other low ranked clans
-----------------------------------------------
Its will be same like in footbal, and after all 13 rounds,you will get winner of each Division(clan who collect most points).
Also every year Best 5 clans in tables will have promotion to higer division,and worst 5 will move down to lover division.
This is only initial idea, i need to put more details, but with this system league will be much more short,and much more stronger competition.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby benga on Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:25 am

qwert wrote:i will propose for CL5 system where you will play 13 rounds,and this will be similar to real footbal divisions.
Now CL4 will be played in 16 rounds (first phase-5=second phase 7=third phase 3=final 1)
Its will be great that finaly its time for real Division Leagues be created.
Premier League-14 clans (rules for play will be similar to CL4 with home away games(two double -two triple-two quads)(this will play 13 rounds,low then CL4)
First League 14 clans
Third League -14 clans
Forth League-all other low ranked clans
-----------------------------------------------
Its will be same like in footbal, and after all 13 rounds,you will get winner of each Division(clan who collect most points).
Also every year Best 5 clans in tables will have promotion to higer division,and worst 5 will move down to lover division.
This is only initial idea, i need to put more details, but with this system league will be much more short,and much more stronger competition.


You were against such setup when it was proposed by others.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby Qwert on Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:24 am

yes,but this whas not leagues, its mini groups with 6 to 8 clans in each group,its not real leagues.
Maybe we could even put higher number of clans-up to 16, now this will be real LEague Competition, and still could be short then CL4. I will work on details.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby Leehar on Fri May 04, 2012 7:19 pm

Whats the use of a 2nd Contact if they're never going to be used?
We've already seen 3 clans have random teams invited, so couldn't we have a more balanced competition if a warning was sent to 1st or 2nd contacts that you have a day left for submissions etc?
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby IcePack on Fri May 04, 2012 7:24 pm

Leehar wrote:Whats the use of a 2nd Contact if they're never going to be used?
We've already seen 3 clans have random teams invited, so couldn't we have a more balanced competition if a warning was sent to 1st or 2nd contacts that you have a day left for submissions etc?


This was my thoughts. If they are due sunday, deadline passes and 2nd guy notices. It doesn't matter, they are late. No reason to have the second contact at all.

Couldn't agree more.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby TheMissionary on Sun May 20, 2012 9:33 pm

Leehar wrote:Whats the use of a 2nd Contact if they're never going to be used?
We've already seen 3 clans have random teams invited, so couldn't we have a more balanced competition if a warning was sent to 1st or 2nd contacts that you have a day left for submissions etc?


MM has used the 2nd contact option a few times.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby josko.ri on Mon May 28, 2012 7:35 pm

replying here, as in original topic my reply would be offtopic: viewtopic.php?f=441&t=161519&start=195#p3748071

ahunda wrote:Whilst I agree with josko in most questions, that he has raised here, I disagree with him being civil or well-mannered about it.

I just reply on the same manner like WPBRJ replied to me. for example, I had realized that 8 games (2 of them with peanutsdad and gunn, members of CLA board) are in violation of playing unlimited fort in doubles. then i was thining - "do I understand rules wrong, or 16 players who used it like home game understand the rules wrong?" considering that top level of CLA organization was among rule breakers, I supposed maybe i understand the rule wrong, so that is why I ASKED it to be clarified - and I got a ton of rude responses, with large fornts and BIG LETTERS, for thing that was not my mistake but was organizer's mistake. CoF also pointed that (in better English) here:
viewtopic.php?f=441&t=161519&start=165#p3709549
for pointing out that double-sense ruling statement (and being right that it has double sense) I was flamed by WPBRJ on very rude way in other topics aswell which has nothing to do with CL4. here: viewtopic.php?f=438&t=168605#p3682433

ahunda wrote:A couple of weeks ago he was border-line stalking one of the TOs, posting in several league threads, even of divisions he was not even part of, stirring up hostility towards that particular TO. He called at least one TO unqualified and the League in general poorly run.

truth is that he was followed me in other threads that has nothing to do with CL4, trying to screw me on every possible way. not only that flaming post above, but also this for example: viewtopic.php?f=443&t=162287&start=120#p3661011
WPBRJ: "if unlimited forts are allowed in anything other than conquest maps i wont play nor will my clan"
so he practically make pressure to organiers to limit what I like just to screw me. his opinion in NOT that his clan will not play if unlimited are allowed, because on the same time of writing that post, his clan was normally signed up for CC3, where those settings are allowed at all. if that is really his opinions, then logically he would not play in CC3 aswell. proved statement: his ONLY wish was to screw josko.
conclusion: WPBRJ is the one who followed me in other topics not even related with CL4, and tried all his best to flame me and screw me in an possible way. if he is doing it in topics when he does not have any power, then logical question is, what he will do in CL4 where he has power like organizer? logical answer is, limit what I like (and what he tried to limit even in ICL), just to lower my fun of playing in CL4.


ahunda wrote:And the whole debate about Unlimited forts was simply uncalled for. It was obvious, that josko had been involved in that debate already before the start of the League, and that he was unsatisfied with the final decision & rules. As I said, I even agree with him in this question, but raising that argument again, when the League was running already for several months, was simply uncalled for.

before the start of the league, when I was included in the debate, it was not known that sets will be 12 in phase 2, 18 in phase 3 and 41 in phase 4. on that time it was actual that sets will always be the same number of games, and points earned will be transferred through phases. so, if sets remained the same, then limit of 2 games per set would be logical to be fixed. but later, after I left CLA, sets for phases 3 and 4 has been increased, and, guess what, limit of games for unlimited forts stayed at 2. I later realized it in this thread and asked what is reason for that non-proportional limitation, while every other maximal games limitation in every competition in history of CC grows proportionally as total number of games increase. for unlimited forts, for some weird reason, that does not increase. I was asked WHY (maybe they have some logical explanation, who knows) and again got rude responses.

in addition to unlimited discussion, here are some arguments after all games for phase 1 are sent:

number of unlimited games: Total 59 (even with limit of 2 per set)
D1: 20 (used like home map by 7 different clans)
D2: 18 (used like home map by 6 different clans)
D3: 16
D4: 3
D5: 2

number of adjacent games: Total 32
D1: 15
D2: 4
D3: 6
D4: 7
D5: 0

so, is unpopularity of unlimited settings real reason for limiting them? or there is some other reason? why then do not limit adjacent aswell when it is obvious that adjacent fort games are played double less times, without any restriction on them?
for future organizers, why limit something that people like to play? if 13 of 16 clans from Division 1&2 used some unlimited game for their home map, isnt it enough to prove you that top notch players like those settings in general because it is enjoyable playing ground. so why steal to them what they like and enjoy to play on?

ahunda wrote:He then started to get involved in the question of the tie between LEG & LHDD and even in the debate surrounding eddie2. So, whilst I agree with him on certain points in those discussions, I can certainly understand the TOs, if they feel harassed by him.


Yes, me (just like every person that commented in LEG&LHDD tie, except organizers), said that the decision was not correct. seeing that organizers changed the rule, maybe they admit they were not correct? am I so bad person to point out what everyone saw was done bad and even organizers changed that bad rule? in addition, I was not only complained about the rule, (like many did), I also SUGGESTED how to solve it (like not a lot of players did). so am I really wrong in that convo or someone who make terrible rule, and then change it in midway of CL4 without notifying anyone of the change is wrong?

ahunda wrote:So much work put into this, and then being called "unqualified" and stuff like this. It´s pretty disrespectful and out of place, if you ask me. And for me as an impartial bystander, it certainly appeared, as if josko had an axe to grind on a personal level here, based on some past dispute about the set-up of the whole thing.

When i say that WPBRJ has never organized any tournament on CC, I say truth. whoever says some truth about me which can easy be checked, I will not be offended, I do not hide behind something that I am not.
And about personal level, whatever I did on personal level, that I had received on the same personal level before, I just reply on the same manner like others treat me.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby ahunda on Tue May 29, 2012 1:14 am

I have no real interest getting involved in this argument. I have no problem with you, josko, and I don´t want to create one. And my intention here is not to take WPBRJs side, who certainly made a couple of very rude remarks during your argument, and that seems not really befitting for a TO. Neither will I take your side though.

Your post, that started this whole argument, was a simple question about the rules, yes: If the number of Unlimited games would grow proportionally with the overall number of games per set. To which WPBRJ replied:

WPBRJ wrote:At this point in time i don't see any reason to reopen this discussion were going to stick to 2 per home set thru out the entire league all 4 phases. maybe next year if CLA wants to add a bit more towards the end of the league that's fine and we can discus it in the CLA forum.

This is a perfectly courteous & clear answer by the TO to your question. And you had the choice right there to simply let it go, accept the ruling of the responsible TO and bring the question up for debate again, when the set-up for the next season would be discussed. Instead you replied:

josko.ri wrote:Number of games is growing proportional, for example, maximal number of games played per player is 35% of all games, so it will grow in phase 2&3 from 4 games phase 1 to 6 games phase 2 and 14 games phase 3. I do not see any reason why number of games per unlimited forts should not also grow proportional and increase together with total number of games per set.

Thanks for limit level of fun to us who like that settings, without real reason for it.

Now I understand, that you personally are more concerned with this question, since Unlimited seems to be your preferred setting. And I can understand your frustration with it, but this last remark of yours was the first, that made this into something personal between you & WPBRJ. And several people commented on that, for example:

Gunn217 wrote:C'mon Josko! Why get sarcastic and disrespectful? These guys are running it and doing a pretty good job so far. They have said from the beginning that it's a work in progress and we'll try to change things next year if needed. So bring it up in the CLA forum and it'll be discussed, like the man said.

Cut em some fricken slack and just have fun with it.

You still didn´t let it go after that, but then started a whole new debate about the limitations of Unlimited forts in general, if those settings are luck-based, and whatnot. At which point WPBRJ obviously started to feel irritated and made his first personal remark too:

WPBRJ wrote:Saying all of this the subject is closed I am not going to change rules just because Josko wants them changed in the middle of the event. Yes before you even say it we have changed a few things already but that was to make games exchange run smoother it had nothing to do with 1 players trying to get a advantage.

Any further discussion should be held in the CLA forum under the discussion thread CL5 Discussion

R.J.

And from there on things deteriorated and became more & more hostile between you two. And when you then found the Unlimited Dubs, that had been played in the League (and were actually prohibited by the rules), it was already so far gone, that you certainly didn´t make the impression of someone using constructive criticism or even helping the TOs, but rather like someone digging up shit to rub it in their faces.

Again: I don´t mean to take sides with WPBRJ, who certainly didn´t behave very professional & did his part to let the whole thing get so nasty. But you are not innocent there either, josko. I mean, you started with comments like the CC3 thread having more views than the League thread, and how this must be, because the League has such a bad set-up and such bad TOs, etc.

Now I noticed, that WPBRJ at some point completely withdrew from all the League threads. I don´t know, if the TOs decided together, that this might be the best approach to end all this arguing & get the focus back on the actual games. Or if it was a personal decision by himself. But it was a good decision, in my opinion.

Unfortunaly you, josko, obviously can´t do the same, but must bring up new issues & raise new arguments every couple of weeks. And by now other TOs like chemefreak are already getting so irritated by this too, that it is already starting to get personal & insulting again.

And with this, I will withdraw. This is my last post on the subject. Have fun all.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby josko.ri on Tue May 29, 2012 6:41 am

ahunda wrote:Your post, that started this whole argument, was a simple question about the rules, yes: If the number of Unlimited games would grow proportionally with the overall number of games per set.

I already explained, when the rule was made, at that point it was actual that number of sets will be equal (12 games) for all 4 phases. Later, after I left CLA, TO's expanded phases 3&4 to more games per set, but did not expand limitation aswell. my first question had point that organizers: 1. realize that they made mistake or 2. (if their decision is not mistake) they give some explanation why number of unlimited games does not grow proportionally with total number of games.

ahunda wrote:To which WPBRJ replied:

WPBRJ wrote:At this point in time i don't see any reason to reopen this discussion were going to stick to 2 per home set thru out the entire league all 4 phases. maybe next year if CLA wants to add a bit more towards the end of the league that's fine and we can discus it in the CLA forum.

This is a perfectly courteous & clear answer by the TO to your question. And you had the choice right there to simply let it go, accept the ruling of the responsible TO and bring the question up for debate again, when the set-up for the next season would be discussed.

his answer does have no argument/reason which proves why this decision is right, he just says decision will not be changed but he does not give reason why he thinks that limitation does not need to grow proportionally with total number of games. because of missed explanation, here is my next post with logical argument:

ahunda wrote:Instead you replied:

josko.ri wrote:Number of games is growing proportional, for example, maximal number of games played per player is 35% of all games, so it will grow in phase 2&3 from 4 games phase 1 to 6 games phase 2 and 14 games phase 3. I do not see any reason why number of games per unlimited forts should not also grow proportional and increase together with total number of games per set.

Thanks for limit level of fun to us who like that settings, without real reason for it.

Now I understand, that you personally are more concerned with this question, since Unlimited seems to be your preferred setting. And I can understand your frustration with it, but this last remark of yours was the first, that made this into something personal between you & WPBRJ.

This is trying to get discusion with arguments. I put and explained in details my argument why i think it is wrong. last sentence is stating that I am sure he do not have logical counterargument. I would cancel any discussion if anyone EVER wrote ANY argument why limitation does not grow proportionally with total number of games. unfortunately, nobody ever wrote a single explanation for that so the only logical explanation may be that it is personal vendetta from WPBRJ to me, what I thought from beginning. You see, what I tried to do is speak by arguments, and I got rude response back instead speak with counterarguments back.

ahunda wrote:And several people commented on that, for example:

Gunn217 wrote:C'mon Josko! Why get sarcastic and disrespectful? These guys are running it and doing a pretty good job so far. They have said from the beginning that it's a work in progress and we'll try to change things next year if needed. So bring it up in the CLA forum and it'll be discussed, like the man said.

Cut em some fricken slack and just have fun with it.

You still didn´t let it go after that, but then started a whole new debate about the limitations of Unlimited forts in general, if those settings are luck-based, and whatnot. At which point WPBRJ obviously started to feel irritated and made his first personal remark too:

WPBRJ wrote:Saying all of this the subject is closed I am not going to change rules just because Josko wants them changed in the middle of the event. Yes before you even say it we have changed a few things already but that was to make games exchange run smoother it had nothing to do with 1 players trying to get a advantage.

Any further discussion should be held in the CLA forum under the discussion thread CL5 Discussion

R.J.

Again, no any explanation why rules are like that (what was my point of discussion), just saying he will not change it. if you read my posts at that time, I gave up about discussion about unlimited. I came back when I realized there are 8 games in violation of the rule. that was not discussion, that was just yes/no question after which my report was supposed to come.

ahunda wrote:And from there on things deteriorated and became more & more hostile between you two. And when you then found the Unlimited Dubs, that had been played in the League (and were actually prohibited by the rules), it was already so far gone, that you certainly didn´t make the impression of someone using constructive criticism or even helping the TOs, but rather like someone digging up shit to rub it in their faces.

I know I do not sounds nice, but whatever I say, I put argument/reason why I think it is like that. if only more players in CLA arelike that and always put some argument to prove their statement, we would for sure have much better organized event.

ahunda wrote:Again: I don´t mean to take sides with WPBRJ, who certainly didn´t behave very professional & did his part to let the whole thing get so nasty. But you are not innocent there either, josko. I mean, you started with comments like the CC3 thread having more views than the League thread, and how this must be, because the League has such a bad set-up and such bad TOs, etc.

saying that League thread has less wiews than CC3 is truth, it can easy be checked. if I just say "League is organized bad" that is personal opinion. if I add some numbers/arguments to that, then it is not anymore personal opinion but is fact.

ahunda wrote:Now I noticed, that WPBRJ at some point completely withdrew from all the League threads. I don´t know, if the TOs decided together, that this might be the best approach to end all this arguing & get the focus back on the actual games. Or if it was a personal decision by himself. But it was a good decision, in my opinion.

Unfortunaly you, josko, obviously can´t do the same, but must bring up new issues & raise new arguments every couple of weeks. And by now other TOs like chemefreak are already getting so irritated by this too, that it is already starting to get personal & insulting again.

I did nothing personal to cheme, I was just asking to clarify that rule. no insults, no hard words. and you see, Leehar, CoF, Ace Rimmer, the only others who commented, said that my post had a point. instead of admitting that it was change added in middle of competition, and highlight it with blue, cheme without any reason started to make ti on personal level, calling me Jackass etc... I know it is now too late for LEG/LHDD as it is already over, but that is not reason to make rule change behind the scenes, without notifiyng anyone thatthe rule has been changed. and then to jump at me like a jerk, when I actually point out TO's mistake (of not announcing the rule change).

ahunda wrote:And with this, I will withdraw. This is my last post on the subject. Have fun all.

Nor I wanted the discussion. cheme unnecesarry made big deal from normal question about rules.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby ahunda on Tue May 29, 2012 8:05 am

josko.ri wrote:I did nothing personal to cheme, I was just asking to clarify that rule. no insults, no hard words. and you see, Leehar, CoF, Ace Rimmer, the only others who commented, said that my post had a point. instead of admitting that it was change added in middle of competition, and highlight it with blue, cheme without any reason started to make ti on personal level, calling me Jackass etc... I know it is now too late for LEG/LHDD as it is already over, but that is not reason to make rule change behind the scenes, without notifiyng anyone thatthe rule has been changed. and then to jump at me like a jerk, when I actually point out TO's mistake (of not announcing the rule change).

ahunda wrote:And with this, I will withdraw. This is my last post on the subject. Have fun all.

Nor I wanted the discussion. cheme unnecesarry made big deal from normal question about rules.

Sorry, josko, but this is simply false. This was your post in the League thread:

josko.ri wrote:I was just reading rules of the event and found this:

overwiew spoiler
WPBRJ wrote:10. League position is determined firstly by Total Points, then by Total Games Won, then by comparing Head-to-Head rounds between any tied teams. If this still does not separate teams then a best-of-3 Play-Off will take-place (Random Trips, Escalating, Chained, Sunny).

Last edited by WPBRJ on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:59 pm, edited 28 times in total.

Did organizers break their own rules by putting LEG over LHDD without playing best-of-3 Play-Off?

You took part in the discussion about the LEG - LHDD tie, when it happened. So you are fully aware, that this rule had not been in place back then. Your question was not honest, and it was not a "normal question about rules". It was a bait.

Honest would have been to say, that you had just discovered, that the rule had been updated, and that you think, this should have been announced publicly. But you pretended to not know and asked "innocently", if the TOs had broken their own rules with their ruling in the LEG - LHDD tie. You knew exactly, that this wasn´t so, and that the answer would be, no, this rule was updated later. You were baiting & provoking people into an argument to make them look bad. And that is why chemefreak is reacting like he did, and I think, you know this too.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby josko.ri on Tue May 29, 2012 9:07 am

ahunda wrote:
josko.ri wrote:I did nothing personal to cheme, I was just asking to clarify that rule. no insults, no hard words. and you see, Leehar, CoF, Ace Rimmer, the only others who commented, said that my post had a point. instead of admitting that it was change added in middle of competition, and highlight it with blue, cheme without any reason started to make ti on personal level, calling me Jackass etc... I know it is now too late for LEG/LHDD as it is already over, but that is not reason to make rule change behind the scenes, without notifiyng anyone thatthe rule has been changed. and then to jump at me like a jerk, when I actually point out TO's mistake (of not announcing the rule change).

ahunda wrote:And with this, I will withdraw. This is my last post on the subject. Have fun all.

Nor I wanted the discussion. cheme unnecesarry made big deal from normal question about rules.

Sorry, josko, but this is simply false. This was your post in the League thread:

josko.ri wrote:I was just reading rules of the event and found this:

overwiew spoiler
WPBRJ wrote:10. League position is determined firstly by Total Points, then by Total Games Won, then by comparing Head-to-Head rounds between any tied teams. If this still does not separate teams then a best-of-3 Play-Off will take-place (Random Trips, Escalating, Chained, Sunny).

Last edited by WPBRJ on Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:59 pm, edited 28 times in total.

Did organizers break their own rules by putting LEG over LHDD without playing best-of-3 Play-Off?

You took part in the discussion about the LEG - LHDD tie, when it happened. So you are fully aware, that this rule had not been in place back then. Your question was not honest, and it was not a "normal question about rules". It was a bait.

Honest would have been to say, that you had just discovered, that the rule had been updated, and that you think, this should have been announced publicly. But you pretended to not know and asked "innocently", if the TOs had broken their own rules with their ruling in the LEG - LHDD tie. You knew exactly, that this wasn´t so, and that the answer would be, no, this rule was updated later. You were baiting & provoking people into an argument to make them look bad. And that is why chemefreak is reacting like he did, and I think, you know this too.


you are wrong, it was not bait. did then Leehar, Ace Rimmer, CoF, arno30 also baited him by asking the same question after they read my comment? did everyone of them (just like me) knew that the rule was changed aftre phase 1, and did everyone choose to bait cheme? NO. because that wasnt clear when it was changed, and was something to ask. arent 4 more players asking the same like me anough prove that it was not clear when it has been changed?

when LEG-LHDD happened, I did not check rules, because this post clear stated that there was not predefined rule about tie. so I trusted that and did not go to check rules on that time: viewtopic.php?f=442&t=161514&start=45#p3666916

Few days ago I went to check rules about cup tied players because we will soon have new players that had played for other clan. and while searching for cup tied players rule, I found that rule about best-of-3-playoff and was really wondering how it was there when we all know how LEG-LHDD ended. Then I asked. honestly, I thought that they were not aware that rule was there in the place, I did not think they changed it midway without announcement.

previous issue, just like this one, also happened because others misintepreted me. I had asked yes/no question about unlimited rule in doubles, and my point was to check real sense of rules before reporting games that I thought were in rule breaking. of course, I was intepreted like I was baiting them, and got extremely rude responses for issue that I was in right, because after my report, 8 games were really in violation. history repeats, instead of answering my question and explaining that it happened midway the leaguebecause they realized they did bad decision, it was much easier to interpret my post like baiting and be rude to me.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby Chariot of Fire on Tue May 29, 2012 10:42 am

I don't wish to take sides here because you both make compelling arguments. Josko does his research very well and always writes with plain logic, whilst Ahunda obviously knows more than I do about the history behind the rule change (I didn't even know there had been a tie between LEG/LHDD until I read about it). One thing is for sure - any rule change should be brought to everyone's attention and not just 'slipped in' as an afterthought. Maybe personal feelings and/or resentment have clouded the issue and caused some friction, so I'm going to steer clear of commenting further. Just a civilised question deserves a civilised response.

And Josko, to his credit, did write to each clan before he exposed the unlimited doubles games which had been created mistakenly saying "Nothing personal" and everyone was fine with it. He's actually a reasonable chap when dealing with fair and logical situations and people.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby Gen.LeeGettinhed on Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:27 am

Ahunda,

Trust me, if josko wants to flame or attack someone, he will -- very directly. He has no problem confronting people that he disagrees with. While we've had our disagreements, he's one of the most logical people I've met on this site. He may get emotional, but I've not seen him let that get in the way of Logic. It's almost like debating with a Dr. Spock -- except for the emotion angle.

This was meant in the most respectful way.
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Re: Clan League Suggestion Box - Better? ; )

Postby Qwert on Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:33 pm

well,MYt whas penalised because unlimited in doubles. But that whas mine mistake, because to much need to read,so i dont notice that we had Unlimited fortification ban from DOubles.
But i think that josko need to focus on future competition, because this competition are come to final stages.
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