What do you want from a government?

[BigBallinStalin]

(to mitigate framing effects, I'll let y'all go first).

[saxitoxin]

government should provide us with a source of warmth

like this ...

[Haggis_McMutton]

unconditional love and affection

[PLAYER57832]

First, a clarification, though it has become common to refer to "the government" as if it were some remote entity with its own thinking, it is simply a reflection of the society as a whole. Traditionally, republics are relatively slow to move in response to people's needs and desires, but overall are moved to meet people's needs as politicians respond to people's demands and votes. Today, that has been skewed because so much money and power is flowing from the top, there is less and less place for the individual.

Government needs to protect people in ways they are not able to individually protect themselves. That includes providing a base standard of living, because there is no such thing as a bottom for humanity in a free market, but humans (unlike products) do have a fundamental value. Or, to put it another way, its bad for business to have a bunch of starving folks all over the street... besides, if they can buy food, then a few grocers get to make money. (note.. that last is a real key, too often welfare and such are seen a simple donations that do no good else, but they actually do a lot to move our economy forward from the base up. Money given at the top, to contrast more often goes into a dark hole of failed ideas).

Similarly, the government must set safety standards for various businesses, because employers don't tend to listen to employees on that and even insurance companies can be too slow. (this does NOT mean I think our current system is perfect ... we do need more inbuilt controls so ensure that safety and not bureacracy or self-protection of specific business desires are shaping the rules)

A big role is to control damage to the environment, because by the time damage is severe enough to impact the economic stream, the damage is either very, very, very expensive to correct or not correctable at all.

Government has to provide necessary services, such as transportation, because if individuals or corporations are in charge, then those folks will quickly control the economy of the area.

Similarly, education must be universal and set by the government. As much as a society, free markets and enterprise depend on physical access, access to information is even more critical. Without education, there is no freedom.

Government sometimes must step in to control access to resources that are severely limited, so that a few don't dominate and take the resources and then charge too much. This might mean food and gas rationing in times of war or natural disaster.

It seems that healthcare is quickly emerging as another area where limits are needed, though in the case of health care a strict food and gas style rationing system won't work because healthcare is so much more complicated. (it needs to be a mixture of some market forces and some top down control, with in-built measures to ensure that science/medical evidence move the system, that it does not get stymied in bureacracy. We have a few models out there, but discussion of that belongs in other threads).

[saxitoxin]

found a shorter summary of Player's post here

[WILLIAMS5232]

i want to live on an island with about 30-40 other people.

no govt needed. just a pecking order.

[WILLIAMS5232]

what would this lady have done without govt?

[Night Strike]

So in other words, player wants the government to have authority over everything and provide everything for every person. That is both unaffordable and unconstitutional.


I simply want the federal government to actually follow the Constitution and protect the rights of the people. The government is supposed to stay out of our personal affairs. As for positive actions, the federal government is only responsible for things like providing an armed forces, negotiating with other countries, governing interstate commerce and relations, and providing miscellaneous services such as patent protections and coinage of money. In fact, the Constitution is pretty specific on what the federal government can and cannot do. If it's not specifically granted to the federal government or barred from the state governments, then state governments are responsible for it (if they choose to do it). Take education and the environment. Neither of which are mandated responsibilities of the federal government, so every state is responsible for taking care of those areas.

[pmchugh]

Player- equal healthcare should be wayyyyyyyyyyyy higher on your list IMO. Equal healthcare is fair, all people have to die so we may as well do that fuckin fairly. Also the way you portray welfare seems to suggest that you would do it solely for the economy, it is like you have taken the morals of the right and the practicality of the left which is a rather bad combination.

Also @NS, it doesn't matter if players proposed government was unconstitutional given the original question.

[Haggis_McMutton]

So in other words, player wants the government to have authority over everything and provide everything for every person. That is both unaffordable and unconstitutional.


I simply want the federal government to actually follow the Constitution and protect the rights of the people. The government is supposed to stay out of our personal affairs. As for positive actions, the federal government is only responsible for things like providing an armed forces, negotiating with other countries, governing interstate commerce and relations, and providing miscellaneous services such as patent protections and coinage of money. In fact, the Constitution is pretty specific on what the federal government can and cannot do. If it's not specifically granted to the federal government or barred from the state governments, then state governments are responsible for it (if they choose to do it). Take education and the environment. Neither of which are mandated responsibilities of the federal government, so every state is responsible for taking care of those areas.

I think the question was meant to be more general. As in what you would want from a hypothetical perfect government.
Unless you consider the Constitution completely perfect and think any government should just follow it as the word of god.

------

Anyway, I think the government should work to increase the collective freedom of its people. Of course defining "freedom" is tricky.(eg: Brave New World: utopia or distopia?).
But quite a few actions seem to emerge from that general principle. Government has no business legislating morality, as that clearly infringes on freedom. Government should provide some means of police if there are no viable private alternatives that can cover all the population as your freedom is impinged upon if you have to always worry about protecting your shit. Same for healthcare and a bunch of other stuff.

Ideally, I think, government should help us grow as a species to the point where we don't need government anymore and then it should be willingly or forcefully removed. I do not think we are at that point yet.

[chang50]

(to mitigate framing effects, I'll let y'all go first).

The question,as above is 'What do you want from a government?"Nowhere does it ask what do you want from the government of any particular country.But sadly and all too predictably the discussion has deterioated to one on the domestic arrangements of a particular country,no prizes for guessing which one..thanx NS

[Night Strike]

The US Constitution is the best basis for the relationship between the government and its citizens ever written. It should be the starting point for all discussions regarding that relationship. It was designed to severely limit the authority of the government in favor of as much autonomy of the people as possible. If it was silent on an issue, it was assumed within the document that the power lied with the people and not with the government. That was a radical change from the governments of that time and should continue to be the framework for all other countries where people desire freedom.

[chang50]

The US Constitution is the best basis for the relationship between the government and its citizens ever written. It should be the starting point for all discussions regarding that relationship. It was designed to severely limit the authority of the government in favor of as much autonomy of the people as possible. If it was silent on an issue, it was assumed within the document that the power lied with the people and not with the government. That was a radical change from the governments of that time and should continue to be the framework for all other countries where people desire freedom.

Are you seriously so ethnocentric?It is the best basis for all societies at all times in all locations and circumstances,really.Take of your blinkers,its a big wide world out there..

[saxitoxin]

The US Constitution is the best basis for the relationship between the government and its citizens ever written. It should be the starting point for all discussions regarding that relationship.

Okay, say what you guys want about NS and agree or disagree with this statement, but it gets a Perfect 10 for sheer audacity.

Basically, we had a gaggle full of fancy lads (ol' Saxi included) who came prancing in here with baskets of hair braiding supplies, thinking they were going to have a happy li'l tête-à-tête, then NS rolled in and shit got real -

[Night Strike]

The US Constitution is the best basis for the relationship between the government and its citizens ever written. It should be the starting point for all discussions regarding that relationship.

Okay, say what you guys want about NS and agree or disagree with this statement, but it gets a Perfect 10 for sheer audacity.

My statement pales in audacity compared to the audaciousness in 1791 that a country of imperfect people could rule themselves instead of having a king rule over them.