War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discussion)

[GreecePwns]

"XXXXXXXXXX takes it up the ass."

If XXXXXXXXXX is an individual person, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?
If XXXXXXXXXX is not an individual person but a group or organization of some sort, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?

[Phatscotty]

Say whatever you want. Fear nothing. Who cares what other people think. Be yourself.

[2dimes]

Say whatever you want. Fear nothing. Who cares what other people think. Be yourself.

Really?

[Phatscotty]

Say whatever you want. Fear nothing. Who cares what other people think. Be yourself.

Really?

No, not really. Be scared of everything, scared of every possibility. Only worry about what other people think. Thinking about yourself is greedy. Be exactly like everybody else.

[Jashur]

Say whatever you want. Fear nothing. Who cares what other people think. Be yourself.

Really?

No, not really. Be scared of everything, scared of every possibility. Only worry about what other people think. Thinking about yourself is greedy. Be exactly like everybody else.

[2dimes]

Well. You didn't ignore the question.

[tkr4lf]

"XXXXXXXXXX takes it up the ass."

If XXXXXXXXXX is an individual person, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?
If XXXXXXXXXX is not an individual person but a group or organization of some sort, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?

I think it all depends on context and intentions.

If it is a factual statement, and somebody is simply informing another person that XXXXXXXX takes it up the ass, then no, I wouldn't consider it to be a homophobic insult. Maybe it's not the most politically correct way to tell somebody that somebody else is a gay male, but it still gets the point across without being homophobic.

Now, if it is being used as an insult, or to hurt somebody in some way, then obviously, it would be an insult. I don't know if it would be homophobic or not, but I guess if it's being used as an insult, then that implies that you would consider it insulting to take it up the ass, so I guess it could be construed as homophobic.

As for an organization, then following the logic in the paragraph above, I guess it could be considered a homophobic insult since organizations are not capable of actually taking it up the ass, or, being gay.

My two cents.

[Phatscotty]

If the "individuals" are men....then the thing is, if the 2 guys who were talking about taking it up the ass in fact did take it up the ass, then it would be impossible to be homophobic.

[tkr4lf]

If the "individuals" are men....then the thing is, if the 2 guys who were talking about taking it up the ass in fact did take it up the ass, then it would be impossible to be homophobic.

Not really.

It's entirely possible for a closeted gay man who takes it up the ass to be homophobic. It's hypocritical as hell, but it can and does happen in real life.

[BigBallinStalin]

As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.

However, I imagine that if this phrase was used in a group of young gay men, some of them might be perplexed with the speaker's negative connotation because "taking it up the ass" could be perceived as quite pleasurable.

Given that above statement, I would concede that when this phrase is used amongst a group of young male heterosexuals, they would generally perceive this to be a bad thing as they tend not to be in favor of such sexual activities--except for those who are in to pegging, fingering, and what not by their female counterparts. So, this phrase again might lead to confusion among certain subgroups of the male heterosexual crowd.

I can only hope that one day, in this great nation, we may find ourselves above this Great Confusion. But seriously, I think it is amazing how subjective the meaning of words can be, and I am glad that such a process flourishes and sometimes eliminates the use of certain words among certain groups in a voluntary and generally informal manner--without the need for state intervention.

Thank you.

[tkr4lf]

As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.

I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?

[BigBallinStalin]

As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.

I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?

I live in one of the following cities:

Los Angeles
New York
Fairfax
Tallahasse
Wyoming
Shanghai
Manassas
Home Fries
or
Tickfaw


EDIT:
To elaborate on the meaning of that phrase, it's generally used with a negative connotation. It's similar to saying, "Business X got fucked hard by recent regulation," or "She got fucked over by so-and-so." Generally, I hear that phrase being used to refer to organizations and not individuals--in a negative manner. I'm starting to recall George Carlin saying that someone got "fucked in the ass" while making a PPTTT! sound. The meaning of that is similar to "fucked over" or "wronged," thus the non-consensual nature of "getting fucked in the ass."

[Army of GOD]

I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.

Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.

[tkr4lf]

As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.

I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?

I live in one of the following cities:

Los Angeles
New York
Fairfax
Tallahasse
Wyoming
Shanghai
Manassas
Home Fries
or
Tickfaw

That explains it all.

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.

Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.

I guess so, but these "hetero-normative assumption" debates are generally not worth getting into. I think Symmetry or "natty(_)dread" are bound to expand on that...

I tend to take things straight-up *(ha ha), so the phrase "getting fucked in the ass" simply means "getting fucked over" or "being wronged" or "got a bad deal." The gender studies people tend to take it much deeper than that, so then they usually posit that the meaning of these words (interpreted by them) has some strong influence on the way (most or many) people perceive homosexuality or masculinity.

I tend to think that the change occurs before they even notice it and without their gender studies analysis. It seems like they're in a little box, talking among themselves, and no one else really cares or is affected by them.