War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discussion)

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War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discussion)

Postby GreecePwns on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:43 pm

"XXXXXXXXXX takes it up the ass."

If XXXXXXXXXX is an individual person, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?
If XXXXXXXXXX is not an individual person but a group or organization of some sort, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:46 pm

Say whatever you want. Fear nothing. Who cares what other people think. Be yourself.
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Postby 2dimes on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:47 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Say whatever you want. Fear nothing. Who cares what other people think. Be yourself.

Really?
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Re:

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:51 pm

2dimes wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Say whatever you want. Fear nothing. Who cares what other people think. Be yourself.

Really?


No, not really. Be scared of everything, scared of every possibility. Only worry about what other people think. Thinking about yourself is greedy. Be exactly like everybody else.
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Re: Re:

Postby Jashur on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:55 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
2dimes wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Say whatever you want. Fear nothing. Who cares what other people think. Be yourself.

Really?


No, not really. Be scared of everything, scared of every possibility. Only worry about what other people think. Thinking about yourself is greedy. Be exactly like everybody else.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby 2dimes on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:59 pm

Well. You didn't ignore the question.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby tkr4lf on Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:59 pm

GreecePwns wrote:"XXXXXXXXXX takes it up the ass."

If XXXXXXXXXX is an individual person, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?
If XXXXXXXXXX is not an individual person but a group or organization of some sort, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?


I think it all depends on context and intentions.

If it is a factual statement, and somebody is simply informing another person that XXXXXXXX takes it up the ass, then no, I wouldn't consider it to be a homophobic insult. Maybe it's not the most politically correct way to tell somebody that somebody else is a gay male, but it still gets the point across without being homophobic.

Now, if it is being used as an insult, or to hurt somebody in some way, then obviously, it would be an insult. I don't know if it would be homophobic or not, but I guess if it's being used as an insult, then that implies that you would consider it insulting to take it up the ass, so I guess it could be construed as homophobic.

As for an organization, then following the logic in the paragraph above, I guess it could be considered a homophobic insult since organizations are not capable of actually taking it up the ass, or, being gay.

My two cents.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby Phatscotty on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:04 pm

If the "individuals" are men....then the thing is, if the 2 guys who were talking about taking it up the ass in fact did take it up the ass, then it would be impossible to be homophobic.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby tkr4lf on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:06 pm

Phatscotty wrote:If the "individuals" are men....then the thing is, if the 2 guys who were talking about taking it up the ass in fact did take it up the ass, then it would be impossible to be homophobic.

Not really.

It's entirely possible for a closeted gay man who takes it up the ass to be homophobic. It's hypocritical as hell, but it can and does happen in real life.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:17 pm

As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.

However, I imagine that if this phrase was used in a group of young gay men, some of them might be perplexed with the speaker's negative connotation because "taking it up the ass" could be perceived as quite pleasurable.

Given that above statement, I would concede that when this phrase is used amongst a group of young male heterosexuals, they would generally perceive this to be a bad thing as they tend not to be in favor of such sexual activities--except for those who are in to pegging, fingering, and what not by their female counterparts. So, this phrase again might lead to confusion among certain subgroups of the male heterosexual crowd.

I can only hope that one day, in this great nation, we may find ourselves above this Great Confusion. But seriously, I think it is amazing how subjective the meaning of words can be, and I am glad that such a process flourishes and sometimes eliminates the use of certain words among certain groups in a voluntary and generally informal manner--without the need for state intervention.

Thank you.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby tkr4lf on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:20 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.


I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:24 pm

tkr4lf wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.


I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?


I live in one of the following cities:

Los Angeles
New York
Fairfax
Tallahasse
Wyoming
Shanghai
Manassas
Home Fries
or
Tickfaw


EDIT:
To elaborate on the meaning of that phrase, it's generally used with a negative connotation. It's similar to saying, "Business X got fucked hard by recent regulation," or "She got fucked over by so-and-so." Generally, I hear that phrase being used to refer to organizations and not individuals--in a negative manner. I'm starting to recall George Carlin saying that someone got "fucked in the ass" while making a PPTTT! sound. The meaning of that is similar to "fucked over" or "wronged," thus the non-consensual nature of "getting fucked in the ass."
Last edited by BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby Army of GOD on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:24 pm

I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.

Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby tkr4lf on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:25 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.


I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?


I live in one of the following cities:

Los Angeles
New York
Fairfax
Tallahasse
Wyoming
Shanghai
Manassas
Home Fries
or
Tickfaw

That explains it all.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:35 pm

Army of GOD wrote:I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.


Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.


I guess so, but these "hetero-normative assumption" debates are generally not worth getting into. I think Symmetry or "natty(_)dread" are bound to expand on that...

I tend to take things straight-up *(ha ha), so the phrase "getting fucked in the ass" simply means "getting fucked over" or "being wronged" or "got a bad deal." The gender studies people tend to take it much deeper than that, so then they usually posit that the meaning of these words (interpreted by them) has some strong influence on the way (most or many) people perceive homosexuality or masculinity.

I tend to think that the change occurs before they even notice it and without their gender studies analysis. It seems like they're in a little box, talking among themselves, and no one else really cares or is affected by them.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:38 pm

What if the person taking it up the ass is a lady?

It could be FemaleFreshmanFromBYUPhobic in that case.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby Army of GOD on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:46 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.


Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.


I guess so, but these "hetero-normative assumption" debates are generally not worth getting into. I think Symmetry or "natty(_)dread" are bound to expand on that...

I tend to take things straight-up *(ha ha), so the phrase "getting fucked in the ass" simply means "getting fucked over" or "being wronged" or "got a bad deal." The gender studies people tend to take it much deeper than that, so then they usually posit that the meaning of these words (interpreted by them) has some strong influence on the way (most or many) people perceive homosexuality or masculinity.

I tend to think that the change occurs before they even notice it and without their gender studies analysis. It seems like they're in a little box, talking among themselves, and no one else really cares or is affected by them.


I agree with the interpretation of "getting fucked in the ass" as "being wronged" but I also use it in other ways, like when I totally pwn n00bs on Call of Duty and then talk trash on the microphone (I'm totally making this up, but the meaning of the anecdote remains) as an insult to their masculinity.

It, like other phrases and whatnot, just come about because of differences in cultures. Like, I grew up using the words "faggot" and "retard" but never intended their use to insult homosexuals (wait, that's offensive, right? I mean "gays") or the mentally handicapped. I don't consider myself a homophobe or mentallydisabledphobe, but I'm sure other people might think that I'm a dirty scoundrel or whatnot.

Channeling my inner BBS, I guess people (including myself) will have to look at the opportunity costs of eliminating these words/phrases from their vocabulary. I guess I'm just a stubborn deutschebag, but I know I don't have a hatred towards certain groups, so I'll probably continue using the words/phrases that some deem offensive and I know that I'll probably be able to go through my entire life using them without many people calling me out on my use of them.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:06 am

saxitoxin wrote:What if the person taking it up the ass is a lady?

It could be FemaleFreshmanFromBYUPhobic in that case.


I saw this flaw in my position coming, and I've no means of stopping it. I'll just have to wait as it awashes us.

Honestly, I don't, saxitoxin, for I strive to be a gentleman. Adhering to a strict chivalric code prohibits such crass behavior in the company of women.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:12 am

Army of GOD wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:I'm not sure if it's homophobic. I guess it sort of is, but I have to admit I use this phrase (and other phrases of similar derogatory nature) often.

I agree with BBS though, is that the rhetorical meaning of the phrase is that it refers to the ass-rape being non-consensual, which is a shot at the person's masculinity.

Also, even in a consensual way, willingly taking it up the ass is pretty much still considered non-masculine.


Thus starts a long thread about bullying/accepting other lifestyles etc. etc.


I guess so, but these "hetero-normative assumption" debates are generally not worth getting into. I think Symmetry or "natty(_)dread" are bound to expand on that...

I tend to take things straight-up *(ha ha), so the phrase "getting fucked in the ass" simply means "getting fucked over" or "being wronged" or "got a bad deal." The gender studies people tend to take it much deeper than that, so then they usually posit that the meaning of these words (interpreted by them) has some strong influence on the way (most or many) people perceive homosexuality or masculinity.

I tend to think that the change occurs before they even notice it and without their gender studies analysis. It seems like they're in a little box, talking among themselves, and no one else really cares or is affected by them.


I agree with the interpretation of "getting fucked in the ass" as "being wronged" but I also use it in other ways, like when I totally pwn n00bs on Call of Duty and then talk trash on the microphone (I'm totally making this up, but the meaning of the anecdote remains) as an insult to their masculinity.

It, like other phrases and whatnot, just come about because of differences in cultures. Like, I grew up using the words "faggot" and "retard" but never intended their use to insult homosexuals (wait, that's offensive, right? I mean "gays") or the mentally handicapped. I don't consider myself a homophobe or mentallydisabledphobe, but I'm sure other people might think that I'm a dirty scoundrel or whatnot.


Yeah. Intentions matter, but since they aren't readily perceived by others, then it's best to think of yourself as a marketer. When you speak, you should know your target market, or audience, so as not to unintentionally offend them.


Army of GOD wrote:Channeling my inner BBS, I guess people (including myself) will have to look at the opportunity costs of eliminating these words/phrases from their vocabulary. I guess I'm just a stubborn deutschebag, but I know I don't have a hatred towards certain groups, so I'll probably continue using the words/phrases that some deem offensive and I know that I'll probably be able to go through my entire life using them without many people calling me out on my use of them.


Like I said, "know your audience." So, you don't have to purge such sayings from your vocabulary, but that's my opinion. Sometimes, it's fun to use that kind of language around people who might be offended because it could present you the opportunity to talk about language, subjectivity, and whatever, which in turn provides an atypical avenue for them to discover who you really are.

It's fun, but be careful because that kind of plan can easily backfire. An easier way is to let someone say something inappropriate, and then maybe later, you could start that conversation with whoever. Anyway, enough rambling.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby john9blue on Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:46 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Home Fries
or
Tickfaw


wow... and i thought central IL had wack town names...
natty_dread wrote:Do ponies have sex?
Army of GOD wrote:the term heterosexual is offensive. I prefer to be called "normal"
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby Haggis_McMutton on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:46 am

tkr4lf wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.


I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?


I live in one of the following cities:

Los Angeles
New York
Fairfax
Tallahasse
Wyoming
Shanghai
Manassas
Home Fries
or
Tickfaw

That explains it all.


So now we have a list of towns where BBS doesn't live.

Good, good, the noose is tightening. Soon we'll have that drink-sodden ex-Trotskyist popinjay in our grasp.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby AAFitz on Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:09 am

tkr4lf wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.


I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?


Its is commonly used to suggest one has been wronged as BBS said.

Most uses of the phrase are homophobic by nature, and in real usage, while its possible to construct a scenario where it is not, most uses would be homophobic by the phrases very nature.

When used perhaps to recount actual events, that would perhaps be the only time it wasn't specifically homophobic, but even then, could absolutely be used because of homophobic influences by the user.

One other exception, is when ex-cons use the phrase. Best not to infer anything about that usage, or ever bring it up again.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:39 am

AAFitz wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.


I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?


Its is commonly used to suggest one has been wronged as BBS said.

Most uses of the phrase are homophobic by nature, and in real usage, while its possible to construct a scenario where it is not, most uses would be homophobic by the phrases very nature.

When used perhaps to recount actual events, that would perhaps be the only time it wasn't specifically homophobic, but even then, could absolutely be used because of homophobic influences by the user.

One other exception, is when ex-cons use the phrase. Best not to infer anything about that usage, or ever bring it up again.


When is that phrase "homophobic by nature"?

What does "by nature" mean? Is that something we say to add some filler into our position? :P
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby Woodruff on Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:49 pm

GreecePwns wrote:"XXXXXXXXXX takes it up the ass."
If XXXXXXXXXX is an individual person, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?
If XXXXXXXXXX is not an individual person but a group or organization of some sort, is this a homophobic insult? Why or why not?


In my view, this is not at all a homophobic insult. Presuming that the phrase is referring to something that is "very bad", it runs analogous the fact that something getting unceremoniously shoved up your ass is probably gonna hurt. Presumably, homosexuals...uh...have ceremony about it.

(Sorry, couldn't resist the terrible joke at the end.)

At any rate, if it is taken as homophobic, that presumes that anal sex doesn't happen in a heterosexual relationship? I'm not buying that.
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Re: War of Words #2: Is this Homophobic? (Apolitical discuss

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:10 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
AAFitz wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:As far as I know, whenever that phrase is used, it is implied that "taking it up the ass" was not consensual.


I've never known it to mean forced anal sex. I always thought it just meant being on the receiving end of consensual anal sex. Hmmm.

In what region do you live, if you don't mind me asking? Perhaps it's a regional difference?


Its is commonly used to suggest one has been wronged as BBS said.

Most uses of the phrase are homophobic by nature, and in real usage, while its possible to construct a scenario where it is not, most uses would be homophobic by the phrases very nature.

When used perhaps to recount actual events, that would perhaps be the only time it wasn't specifically homophobic, but even then, could absolutely be used because of homophobic influences by the user.

One other exception, is when ex-cons use the phrase. Best not to infer anything about that usage, or ever bring it up again.


When is that phrase "homophobic by nature"?

What does "by nature" mean? Is that something we say to add some filler into our position? :P


I think AAFitz knows something about the world that all of us don't.

Please, oh wise one AntiAircraft Fitz, we are not worth of your perfect knowledge.
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