Free to Play Speed Games on Classic Map

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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:32 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:I personally agree with it on Classic map. For new players, it will give them the experience they were looking for when they join, a quick game, probably on the map they grew up with. It won't give away the whole perk of speed games away, and will still give the Entertainment team to do the whole free speed games to Freemiums on certain maps. Got a thumbs up from me.


I'm changing my OP to 5 minutes only based on yours and others suggestions. I think this makes sense from a fairness perspective for new players who may need more time and for limiting free options. Thanks.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:41 am

x-raider wrote:Yes. Great Idea. Put a cap, like 50 games.


I'd like to hear more suggestions from people about caps. So far several freemies have recommended total caps, monthly caps and daily caps.

The reason I didn't put a cap on this, is that the game type I'm proposing is free on other websites for just the classic map and there is no cap there, so why should CC cap it?

Are there any Premium members reading this who bought Premium simply to play only the Classic Map on speed and how many of you are there?

If we make a cap will people just go to another site (e.g. pogo) or start playing RT games and still not pay after they reach their limit? Will they just make another account?

I guess I think a cap is a great conceptual idea, but at the end of the day it will have a limited effect on who pays for premium between RT, multi-account users, and users who quit the site.I'd like to hear everyone else's take on this.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby KraphtOne on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:42 am

you can play speed on the classic map...

but only one speed game at a time...

keeps you coming back, and keeps you wanting more...

4 games at a time that take forever if you join the wrong one is just awful...

i hated this site before i was premium, it took a LONG time for me to enjoy it enough to buy premium (which included long lengths of forgetting that i even was a member of this site out of sheer boredom waiting for turns) ...

if i weren't a psycho that has been playing online risk since '95 i probably wouldn't have paid the extra money...

in fact if memory serves, i think i bought premium because i have some old risker friends that i play teams with and only had 4 slots... had nothing to do with speed games... didn't know if they were fun or not cause couldnt really play em...

but pretty sure if i had a taste of speed and for a few dollars more could have unlimited speedos i'da signed up in a heart beat...
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby KraphtOne on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:47 am

cooldeals wrote:If we make a cap will people just go to another site (e.g. pogo) or start playing RT games and still not pay after they reach their limit? Will they just make another account?


having played other sites, the coding on this site is above the bar in my opinion...

if i were a new player here, i would probably play tons of classic speed games (even with a one at a time limit) a day...

and it would be fun, and then i would pay money because wouldn't it be more fun to play 5 or 6 speedies at a time and get to try out all those cool maps...

i have friends that have tried this site and the slowness of taking turns caused them to abandon it...

if they could come in any time they wanted and play a quick game of classic at their leisure then for sure they'd be more apt to stick around... and being someone who works in sales, 10 people in the door that wouldn't have been in otherwise is 10 more chances to make money...
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby Ace Rimmer on Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:42 pm

I fully support this suggestion. I think the idea of it limited to the "standard" settings is a good one - 6p esc sunny chained sequential standard, 5 min turns. I think a limit of 1 speed game at a time with no daily/monthly limits or limits on how many games you have played, because people WILL eventually get bored of those settings. They can use their casual games to try out some other things and see what other options there are, and they can be sold on the benefits of premium. Even if this means that some freemies will stay freemie (or some people who love classic games will go freemie) I don't think it's a big deal because it will expand the base and expand the benefits, and definitely lead to a greater new player experience. You have to get the people to create an account and stick around before you even have a chance of them buying premium.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:23 pm

The problem that is created with capping it is that people will create multis to play more speed games. Every new account gets an allotted number? Awesome, I'll just keep making accounts and NEVER have to pay.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:27 pm

Ace Rimmer wrote:I fully support this suggestion. I think the idea of it limited to the "standard" settings is a good one - 6p esc sunny chained sequential standard, 5 min turns. I think a limit of 1 speed game at a time with no daily/monthly limits or limits on how many games you have played, because people WILL eventually get bored of those settings. They can use their casual games to try out some other things and see what other options there are, and they can be sold on the benefits of premium. Even if this means that some freemies will stay freemie (or some people who love classic games will go freemie) I don't think it's a big deal because it will expand the base and expand the benefits, and definitely lead to a greater new player experience. You have to get the people to create an account and stick around before you even have a chance of them buying premium.


Thanks Ace. I've updated my OP to reflect only the most basic settings based on your and others comments. I think Flat should be an option too and maybe even 5 or 6 player games, but we're taking small steps so it makes sense to go with the most basic and then move from there.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:31 pm

chapcrap wrote:The problem that is created with capping it is that people will create multis to play more speed games. Every new account gets an allotted number? Awesome, I'll just keep making accounts and NEVER have to pay.


Exactly my thoughts. I think Ace's suggestion of 1 slot for these games may not be bad, although unnecessary. Beyond that, I think people will work around it by making more accounts or simply leave.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby natty dread on Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:47 pm

Woodruff wrote:For folks like me, I think this would be a negative from a money-making standpoint because, as chapcrap poitns out, speed games are one of the biggest things that people pay for.


Are they really? I don't think so.

I think most people get premium so they can get to play more than 4 games at once. Things like invites, starting private games, etc. are perks, but speed games? They're hardly most people's primary motivation for paying money - otherwise there'd be more speedgames being played. The thing is, anyone can go to live chat and ask for people to play RT. Sure, it's not a "real" speedgame, but for most freemiums it doesn't make much difference I wager.

Restricting the speed games to a certain games played cap would encourage multis. And despite the claims of the C&A team, there are ways of creating multis that have virtually no way of getting caught, if you don't make any noise about yourself.

Restricting the speed games to only the classic map would be stupid as well - ok, great, people who like the classic map get to play the classic map against other people who like the classic map. Then what? The freemiums can still go and play their RT games on other maps. What's the point of such a restriction? Oh no, the Entertainment Team can't host their Special little Speed Events anymore. Well tough shit, the Entertainment Team is just going to have to come up with some better Entertainment. Which is more important here, getting more satisfied customers, or keeping the ET happy?

The fact is, a lot (if not most) of the NR:s who quit the site without finishing their first game(s) do it because they thought they'd get to play realtime games here. And when they find out they have to wait 24h for their next turn they lose interest. With free speedgames, there'd be a rush of new members, the retention rate would very likely improve significantly, and that is what CC needs right now. I'm pretty sure those people would also buy premium, and if they wouldn't, well, then the site should just come up with new perks for the premium members, make premium membership more attractive.

Sadly, this is all moot, since as we all know the sugs forum is the graveyard of ideas...
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby Hornet95 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:50 pm

chapcrap wrote:The problem that is created with capping it is that people will create multis to play more speed games. Every new account gets an allotted number? Awesome, I'll just keep making accounts and NEVER have to pay.


Devil's advocate: Why don't I just create multis because I don't like the 4-game cap limit? I would think the same logic applies.

I still like capping it at 10 speed games per month. I support others' suggestions of 5 min, seq, esc, sunny only. However, I would like to see the number of players be optional - not limited to 6-player games only. I would be okay with 3-, 4-, 5- and 6-player as the only options.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:57 pm

natty dread wrote:
Woodruff wrote:For folks like me, I think this would be a negative from a money-making standpoint because, as chapcrap poitns out, speed games are one of the biggest things that people pay for.


Are they really? I don't think so.

I think most people get premium so they can get to play more than 4 games at once. Things like invites, starting private games, etc. are perks, but speed games? They're hardly most people's primary motivation for paying money - otherwise there'd be more speedgames being played. The thing is, anyone can go to live chat and ask for people to play RT. Sure, it's not a "real" speedgame, but for most freemiums it doesn't make much difference I wager.

Restricting the speed games to a certain games played cap would encourage multis. And despite the claims of the C&A team, there are ways of creating multis that have virtually no way of getting caught, if you don't make any noise about yourself.

Restricting the speed games to only the classic map would be stupid as well - ok, great, people who like the classic map get to play the classic map against other people who like the classic map. Then what? The freemiums can still go and play their RT games on other maps. What's the point of such a restriction? Oh no, the Entertainment Team can't host their Special little Speed Events anymore. Well tough shit, the Entertainment Team is just going to have to come up with some better Entertainment. Which is more important here, getting more satisfied customers, or keeping the ET happy?

The fact is, a lot (if not most) of the NR:s who quit the site without finishing their first game(s) do it because they thought they'd get to play realtime games here. And when they find out they have to wait 24h for their next turn they lose interest. With free speedgames, there'd be a rush of new members, the retention rate would very likely improve significantly, and that is what CC needs right now. I'm pretty sure those people would also buy premium, and if they wouldn't, well, then the site should just come up with new perks for the premium members, make premium membership more attractive.

Sadly, this is all moot, since as we all know the sugs forum is the graveyard of ideas...

I think that people pay initially for more games and for speed games. And probably speed games more than anything. When I first bought premium that was my reason. Now, I hardly play speed games, because I just get enough casual games going that I pretty much always have a turn to take when I log on. But, yes, I think speed games is the reason most become premium.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:53 pm

chapcrap wrote:
natty dread wrote:
Woodruff wrote:For folks like me, I think this would be a negative from a money-making standpoint because, as chapcrap poitns out, speed games are one of the biggest things that people pay for.


Are they really? I don't think so.

I think most people get premium so they can get to play more than 4 games at once. Things like invites, starting private games, etc. are perks, but speed games? They're hardly most people's primary motivation for paying money - otherwise there'd be more speedgames being played. The thing is, anyone can go to live chat and ask for people to play RT. Sure, it's not a "real" speedgame, but for most freemiums it doesn't make much difference I wager.

Restricting the speed games to a certain games played cap would encourage multis. And despite the claims of the C&A team, there are ways of creating multis that have virtually no way of getting caught, if you don't make any noise about yourself.

Restricting the speed games to only the classic map would be stupid as well - ok, great, people who like the classic map get to play the classic map against other people who like the classic map. Then what? The freemiums can still go and play their RT games on other maps. What's the point of such a restriction? Oh no, the Entertainment Team can't host their Special little Speed Events anymore. Well tough shit, the Entertainment Team is just going to have to come up with some better Entertainment. Which is more important here, getting more satisfied customers, or keeping the ET happy?

The fact is, a lot (if not most) of the NR:s who quit the site without finishing their first game(s) do it because they thought they'd get to play realtime games here. And when they find out they have to wait 24h for their next turn they lose interest. With free speedgames, there'd be a rush of new members, the retention rate would very likely improve significantly, and that is what CC needs right now. I'm pretty sure those people would also buy premium, and if they wouldn't, well, then the site should just come up with new perks for the premium members, make premium membership more attractive.

Sadly, this is all moot, since as we all know the sugs forum is the graveyard of ideas...

I think that people pay initially for more games and for speed games. And probably speed games more than anything. When I first bought premium that was my reason. Now, I hardly play speed games, because I just get enough casual games going that I pretty much always have a turn to take when I log on. But, yes, I think speed games is the reason most become premium.


Get out of my head, chap.

As to what others have said: Agree that there shouldn't be a limit on total games just concurrent games. As for that issue and the issue of settings, now I think we're fine tuning this idea. I don't see a whole lot of dissent and I see a whole lot of agreement.

Very cool suggestion that benefits the users and the site. Well done.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby MegaProphet on Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:05 am

natty dread wrote:
Woodruff wrote:For folks like me, I think this would be a negative from a money-making standpoint because, as chapcrap poitns out, speed games are one of the biggest things that people pay for.


Are they really? I don't think so.

I think most people get premium so they can get to play more than 4 games at once. Things like invites, starting private games, etc. are perks, but speed games? They're hardly most people's primary motivation for paying money - otherwise there'd be more speedgames being played. The thing is, anyone can go to live chat and ask for people to play RT. Sure, it's not a "real" speedgame, but for most freemiums it doesn't make much difference I wager.

Restricting the speed games to a certain games played cap would encourage multis. And despite the claims of the C&A team, there are ways of creating multis that have virtually no way of getting caught, if you don't make any noise about yourself.

Restricting the speed games to only the classic map would be stupid as well - ok, great, people who like the classic map get to play the classic map against other people who like the classic map. Then what? The freemiums can still go and play their RT games on other maps. What's the point of such a restriction? Oh no, the Entertainment Team can't host their Special little Speed Events anymore. Well tough shit, the Entertainment Team is just going to have to come up with some better Entertainment. Which is more important here, getting more satisfied customers, or keeping the ET happy?

The fact is, a lot (if not most) of the NR:s who quit the site without finishing their first game(s) do it because they thought they'd get to play realtime games here. And when they find out they have to wait 24h for their next turn they lose interest. With free speedgames, there'd be a rush of new members, the retention rate would very likely improve significantly, and that is what CC needs right now. I'm pretty sure those people would also buy premium, and if they wouldn't, well, then the site should just come up with new perks for the premium members, make premium membership more attractive.

Sadly, this is all moot, since as we all know the sugs forum is the graveyard of ideas...

I think the classic map would be enough to keep the new players around. Keeping things simple is a better way to introduce new users.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby natty dread on Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:04 pm

chapcrap wrote:I think that people pay initially for more games and for speed games. And probably speed games more than anything.


Have you conducted a survey or something?

In any case it's useless to speculate the reasons why people currently buy premium (even if we had evidence) because even if people can play 1 free speed game at a time, there'd still be other reasons for people to buy premium. And new incentives could be devised - things like the new battle royale thing.

Speed games should be the main "attraction" for this site, not a "perk" that you get for paying. Because that's what most people who wander to the site are looking for - a quick speed game to try out the site. A LOT of people quit before finishing their first game(s) because they can't play speed games.

CC needs to update its business model. The current one isn't working.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:16 pm

I know there are many different ideas as to how far this could go....should all speed games be free?.....shouldn't more settings be free?....etc. I guess part of my idea is that if we come up with a simple idea to start from, more could be added as CC sees success from it, but our idea is limited enough CC might actually do it.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:10 pm

cooldeals wrote:I know there are many different ideas as to how far this could go....should all speed games be free?.....shouldn't more settings be free?....etc. I guess part of my idea is that if we come up with a simple idea to start from, more could be added as CC sees success from it, but our idea is limited enough CC might actually do it.


Definitely not all. I think you were on the right track with your original post:

All Games on this tab will be Speed Games [on Classic map] with basic settings (Esc, Sunny, Automatic Deployment, 5 min turns, 6 players, standard).
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby Hornet95 on Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:23 pm

Wonder if the powers-that-be could try this for one or three months, see if it improves business/sign-ups, and then bring it down if it does not improve business?
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:09 pm

agentcom wrote:
cooldeals wrote:I know there are many different ideas as to how far this could go....should all speed games be free?.....shouldn't more settings be free?....etc. I guess part of my idea is that if we come up with a simple idea to start from, more could be added as CC sees success from it, but our idea is limited enough CC might actually do it.


Definitely not all. I think you were on the right track with your original post:

All Games on this tab will be Speed Games [on Classic map] with basic settings (Esc, Sunny, Automatic Deployment, 5 min turns, 6 players, standard).


I don't think all speed games should be free. I was just pointing out that some people have said that in the thread, but it makes more sense to do a limited idea like this and then people can submit those ideas as a separate suggestion if they feel like it if we get this implemented.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:12 pm

Hornet95 wrote:Wonder if the powers-that-be could try this for one or three months, see if it improves business/sign-ups, and then bring it down if it does not improve business?


I don't know who the powers that be are, but I think it'd be a great idea to test it. If I'm wrong, then take it down. I'd actually recommend this site to friends again if I knew they could come to something like this. They all get bored and quit and then ask me how I can stand playing 2 month long risk games before they even play their 2nd turn. (sometimes their first turn)
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby SaviorShot on Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:31 pm

Put a monthly cap on it not an overall cap bc they would just create multi accounts to get more speed games
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:27 am

SaviorShot wrote:Put a monthly cap on it not an overall cap bc they would just create multi accounts to get more speed games


I don't think you need an absolute cap. That's what I was saying earlier. Have this site be a competitor to the free stuff on Pogo, but differentiate on what you pay for. Anyone can go to Pogo and play for free as much as they want, anyone could come here and do the same. At least for simple settings. But here the draw is the maps and settings. I think that's an excellent inducement to buy stuff.

Under the model, you could play basic style speed for free, but you wouldn't get all the maps. But you know about the maps because you also have your 4 casual games going. Meanwhile, you get to see what it's like to play all the time (and how addicting it is), so you want more than those 4 casual games. It would kind of feed off itself.

I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA. I have no personal stake in it, it just seems like it's a good business model that would benefit the site and the coffers. And more money in the coffers could mean a better site (so I guess it could indirectly benefit me). Or it means more money in lack's pocket, which is his right to do.

Cooldeals, you should try to get a commission on this idea if it ever goes through. :)
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby blakebowling on Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:55 pm

Stickied.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby agentcom on Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:47 pm

Cool
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby cooldeals on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:54 am

agentcom wrote:
SaviorShot wrote:Put a monthly cap on it not an overall cap bc they would just create multi accounts to get more speed games


I don't think you need an absolute cap. That's what I was saying earlier. Have this site be a competitor to the free stuff on Pogo, but differentiate on what you pay for. Anyone can go to Pogo and play for free as much as they want, anyone could come here and do the same. At least for simple settings. But here the draw is the maps and settings. I think that's an excellent inducement to buy stuff.

Under the model, you could play basic style speed for free, but you wouldn't get all the maps. But you know about the maps because you also have your 4 casual games going. Meanwhile, you get to see what it's like to play all the time (and how addicting it is), so you want more than those 4 casual games. It would kind of feed off itself.

I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA. I have no personal stake in it, it just seems like it's a good business model that would benefit the site and the coffers. And more money in the coffers could mean a better site (so I guess it could indirectly benefit me). Or it means more money in lack's pocket, which is his right to do.

Cooldeals, you should try to get a commission on this idea if it ever goes through. :)


Words after my own heart right here on competing with Pogo and why people pay for premium. I think my real commission would be in fun when there is increased activity from the site.
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Re: Free to play Speed Games on Classic Map

Postby nicestash on Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:19 pm

Great idea! I ended up buying premium because I got a taste of freestyle when CC gave a couple games over the holidays. Without that, I would still be freemium. I have a lot of friends that love risk but have quit because they don't have the patience/time to come online every day to take 1 turn.
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