[Abandoned] Paris : Métropolitain

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[Abandoned] Paris : Métropolitain

Postby Qyu on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:25 pm

ImageImage
Map Name: Paris : Métropolitain
Mapmakers: BisdeCapri & Qyu
Number of Territories: 83
Special Features: starting neutral, partial bonuses, one way assault
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: Paris underground network may be very complex for non-parisiens. Lets see if Conquer Clubers could find their way into Paris maze
Map Description : Original work base the official RATP map of Paris network subway & equivalent. We cut the map to Paris administrative borders, and lighten it by delete RER (A, B, C, D & E lines), which duplicate existing subway roads, and also deleted most of the single stations.



Map Image:
Click image to enlarge.
image


show: Previous Versions


Nota :
The players start at the 24 "Portes" territories (dispatched equally to all players)
all territories start with 2 neutrals, except the Rail Stations (3 neutrals), and the territs with only one line (1 neutral)
Last edited by Qyu on Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:26 am, edited 16 times in total.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby Qyu on Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:26 pm

For the moment, the small map is a little blur. We just reduce by 75% the big one. Once most of the global gameplay and map will be ok, we rework the small for have neat text and bigger army circles.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:41 pm

BisdeCapri & Qyu, firstly, welcome to the drafting room. Looking forward to seeing where this one goes.
A couple of boring bits then will get onto your map. Have you read this Map makers hand book. If not then please do so as it will give you lots of info.
Proper army numbers for you .
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Forget about the small map for now. You do not need to waste any time on this till you get the graphics in the main foundry. It is far easier to work on the large only for now.
Any help I can give, just ask.

Fun bit.
I like the legend for this map. Paris at night
You said the stations are art nouveau in style, but I see not of this on the map. Try to bring this out.
Have fun and good luck.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:19 am

seconded koontz notices. and some more, maybe you could use map of Paris as background - so players will see "where" they are. now it looks as cyrcle with couple og lines.

good luck.

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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby denthefrog on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:08 am

bon courage =D> =D> =D>
good idea, i ll keep an eye on this one

Nota :
The players start at the 24 "Portes" territories (dispatched equally to all players)
All others territs start with 2 neutrals, except the rail stations which start with 6 neutrals


or u could have it like the rails maps?
but thats personal i m not keen on conquest maps ;)
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:28 am

I like the potential of this map, and you both as cartographers!

The font for region names is kind of difficult to read on the small map. I think it works in the legend, since it is a little bigger and the legend will be read less than all the region names, but on the gameboard itself, it is a bit dicey.

I like the skyline theme you have going as well.

Keep up the good work, and welcome to the Foundry!


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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby Qyu on Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:54 am

Thanks for the tips.

We will offer some improvement soon.

Oneyed wrote:maybe you could use map of Paris as background - so players will see "where" they are. now it looks as cyrcle with couple og lines.

I suppose you suggest it as background around the playground, and no behind the playground.
We're agree that in the current conditions, it seems as if the playground were through here, without any spicy features. But adding some stuff behind the playground will make it a bit unreadable, especially for the line color, were we need a good contrast.


Denthefrog, to be honest, we first look at railmaps, but in fact we see it a bit different. Underground network is make of a huge amount of interlacing lines, snaking across the city from & to both sides. So we imagine a different gameplay, midway of railmap and jamaica/antartica, where players start around the map (but here, for multiple starting points, not like most of build-strat maps), then run into for bonus and kill.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:24 pm

Qyu wrote:I suppose you suggest it as background around the playground, and no behind the playground.


I think something simple could be also behind playground.
Qyu wrote:We're agree that in the current conditions, it seems as if the playground were through here, without any spicy features. But adding some stuff behind the playground will make it a bit unreadable, especially for the line color, were we need a good contrast.


something like this. and maybe you could use some buildings or statues if station is under them...

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:04 pm

Oneyed wrote:
Click image to enlarge.
image


Oneyed

If this was a street map, I would completely agree with Oneyed here. But as it is the undergound, I think this might be slightly of the map.

But something will need to go behind the playing image. And it can bee done very successfully. Just look at the rail maps we have already, mainly Asia.

Can I ask what graphics programme you are using as it would help me.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby BisdeCapri on Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:09 am

Hi everybody, thanks for all your experimented advices and good ideas. We're using photoshop to work on this map.
We're now trying some new stuff to feet with your suggestions, and, we'll post it there very soon.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [2011-06-26]

Postby Qyu on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:34 am

Here a new proposition

Click image to enlarge.
image


First, we short all name to a 2/3 letters, and add them bellow the army box.
All "Porte" territs are prefix with a minus "p"
We also add some examples of army count

And at last, some art déco stuff are added around the map and on the background.
We currently discuss about add some monuments. Of course it's an underground map, but there is not many things to see/visit underneath (the sewers ? the Boneyard ?). There is some little place near "La place de l'Etoile", "La Tour Eiffel", "La place de la Bastille" ou "Pigalle". Even Denfert's Lion may find its chair.
In this condition, we'll have to ask for a supersize map, so the current version will be the smaller one. But i don't know when supersize agreement will be back
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v2][2011-06-28]

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:53 am

First of, let me say that the background is simply stunning. =D> All it needs now is a little colour to it. ;) That grey is rather bland. The title and corner pieces are super and I hope you keep them in. As for the monuments, river and such, is there a way that you could do these in the same style as the surrounding? Do not know if it can be done but it might work. Right now, the only thing that does not work for this map is the river. I know it is early, but as you said, the river underground cannot be seem. But if you can do what I suggested above, you can work it in. As for the lines, why are the stations different colours to the lines that they are on. This will be confusing to players when looking at the bonuses. When you do the station, use the box you have for the bonuses (Run a 1 pixel black line around them) and have the lines done as railway tracks. You can then put a soft glow behind it. Where lines cross, you can either have two stations side by side or have the bonus colours half and half in the box.

Now lets deal with the supersize. What I will say on this is that you will not get it. Sorry to be blunt, but this is going to be the case. You have more than enough room on this map as it is to be able to do the small at the current guidelines of 630/600. Just quickly looking at the map, you have around 70-100 pixels of wasted space at the sides and the same from the bottom. Supersize is now going to be used for maps that are rare and this one is not that. But when you do come to do the small map, do not dispare, if it becomes obvious that you really cannot fit it all in, then some extra can and will be granted. But leave that for later when you come to do the small map.

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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v2][2011-06-28]

Postby Teflon Kris on Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:52 pm

Gameplay-wise - with players starting at the 'portes' it would be cool if there was a central objective, maybe hold several key regions? A bit like a more strategic St.Pat's gameplay style?

Also, worth thinking about the bonus system and whether the portes have relatively equal access to small and large bonuses.

Great start.

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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v2][2011-06-28]

Postby betiko on Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:23 pm

nice! maybe it's stupid but why not add the RER stations, at least the ones inside of Paris? they give new conections between the classic metro stations and it would all be closer to reality, don't know about the gameplay..
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v2][2011-06-28]

Postby Qyu on Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:00 am

Voila !

Click image to enlarge.
image


We colored each station, depending of which line go through them. So, we have to enlarge some 'square' for have all color displayed (and so, deleted one station Raspail [RSP])
Each line is now represented by a railroad. For keep a good readability, the background was turned to black.

Each 'Porte' is prefixed by a minus P, each rail station is prefixed by a minus g. We still search another way to distinguish them between the others stations. Maybe an outline, or the name in bold black.


About the river stuff. I'm agree it's underground, and so, La Seine can't be seen. But without it, we just have a black disc, which means nothing. Keeping the river path allow us to recognize Paris : Paris is often (even always) stylized by a schematic oval shape crossed by a reverse 'U', even for an underground map. It also allow reader to see where is the north, and where is the south, depending of the U direction. That's why we keep it.

About the RER lines, they don't have enough stations in inner Paris and/or just copy another underground line :
RER A copies line 1
RER B & D have only 3 stations
RER E has 2 stations
Only RER C would be different, with its 3 ways line, but not enough to have it : it also weighs down the map
We also look at the T3 Tramway but its position (each Porte from pSV to pVI) disturbs the Porte bonus and gameplay.


About the idea of a central objective, it may be having all 5 rail stations during one turn. In this condition, we may not have a standard bonus for holding them, but an auto-deploy bonus. with 5 starting neutral on each, except gCH : 10 starting neutrals
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v3][2011-07-16]

Postby Qyu on Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:16 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


i just quickly change the style of territ name.
With a black bold, it becomes more readable.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v3][2011-07-16]

Postby nolefan5311 on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:08 am

One thing you may need to plan for are being able to see 3 888's, or maybe even more. I don't know how they will stand out against the pitch black background.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v3][2011-07-16]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:22 am

The colours will not for some of the CB guys. But a thought for you to consider, with looking at the shape of Paris above, it looks almost like a tunnel so maybe the shape can reflect that some more and some detailing onto the black would make it easier to see. Can you see what the river blue will look like when placed onto the river in the legend.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v3][2011-07-16]

Postby Qyu on Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:35 am

nolefan5311 wrote:One thing you may need to plan for are being able to see 3 888's, or maybe even more. I don't know how they will stand out against the pitch black background.


currently, we see a letter and two numbers. I guess three numbers will take the same place.



koontz1973 wrote:The colours will not for some of the CB guys. But a thought for you to consider, with looking at the shape of Paris above, it looks almost like a tunnel so maybe the shape can reflect that some more and some detailing onto the black would make it easier to see. Can you see what the river blue will look like when placed onto the river in the legend.


Not sure i understand the first part. You say you see a sort of tunnel into the black shape of Paris ? and so, suggest we go in this direction and modify the shape to more 'tunnel' like ? it's more a side effect, and not really our objective.
And i clearly not understand the stuff about the river into the legend...
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v3][2011-07-16]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:21 pm

Sorry for not being clear with you.

Paris (main map) looks almost like a tunnel as it is, so rounding out the sides and top, and flatten out the bottom so it looks like a tunnel might be a nice way to bring the tunnel into the map itself.
As for the legend, on the right, you have the river running through the black, it might be nice to see the same colour as the river in the map brought over to the legend (map instructions).

You are right that with the letter, you already have the 3 digits on the map. The centering of the numbers is done in the middle of the first two numbers (88 or r8). So if you have that centered, it will look nice, but have the numbers centered to the right as you now have, most games will have this odd look of the numbers being to the left of each box. Centre the numbers using the first two digits and the see how far the third one comes into the background.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v3][2011-07-16]

Postby Qyu on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:06 am

change all name to a bold black
center the army number

I put the river in the background skyline in blue, but it's weird, it seems not the same blue as in the playground, even with the same hexa code

Click image to enlarge.
image


About the idea of morphing the Paris shape to a tunnel exit shape, we're not agree.
Ok, it's an underground network, and an tunnel exit is in that theme. But as each rail maps, which have different background, depending of their country, we prefer keep Paris shape. Lets try to have different maps and maps background. If someone will make later London subway, he could use London shape, same for Washington DC, Berlin or any other underground network, and not a such common shape.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v4][2011-07-20]

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:12 am

Remove the blue from the river, it looks awful, but hanks for trying it though.
Understand about the shape and you can keep it as is.
With the playing area, is there any way you can break up the black blob? Not asking for much but can you see if there is any way you can try to make it more interesting.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v3][2011-07-16]

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jul 22, 2012 2:26 am

koontz1973 wrote:The colours will not for some of the CB guys....

Yes that why (most) Rail maps have codes for each line, so that CB players don't have issues with the colours.
Probably too cramped for that here, but you might like to consider it somehow. :)
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v4][2011-07-20]

Postby charmir on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:00 am

Me like this one a lot. Please finish this one of.
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Re: Paris : Métropolitain [v4][2011-07-20]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:30 pm

Any update to this on the horizon?
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