Moderator: Community Team
Fruitcake wrote:The true genius of all this is the sheer 'Alice in Wonderland' way of doing things.
Here's a scenario:
Spain needs ā¬100 Billion for the Spanish banking system. So far so good. 20% of that money has to come from Italy. Under this deal, the Italians have to lend to the Spanish at 3%, but to get that money they have to borrow on the markets at 7%. Total genius really.
Here's another scenario:
Moving to the ECB. The problem is that the exposure that institution now has to the indebted nations now runs at around ā¬440 billion. So if Greece was to get to the point of no return, there would be a cash call to replenish that part of the overall debt that had to be written off. Where would this money come from? Oh yes....Ireland, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc...you couldn't make this stuff up!
Try getting your brains around all this and your basic fundamental common sense will tell you this cannot succeed. However, in the magic world of Euro Politicians, this is going to work. meanwhile the Euro just keeps sliding.
Fruitcake wrote:The true genius of all this is the sheer 'Alice in Wonderland' way of doing things.
Here's a scenario:
Spain needs ā¬100 Billion for the Spanish banking system. So far so good. 20% of that money has to come from Italy. Under this deal, the Italians have to lend to the Spanish at 3%, but to get that money they have to borrow on the markets at 7%. Total genius really.
Here's another scenario:
Moving to the ECB. The problem is that the exposure that institution now has to the indebted nations now runs at around ā¬440 billion. So if Greece was to get to the point of no return, there would be a cash call to replenish that part of the overall debt that had to be written off. Where would this money come from? Oh yes....Ireland, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc...you couldn't make this stuff up!
Try getting your brains around all this and your basic fundamental common sense will tell you this cannot succeed. However, in the magic world of Euro Politicians, this is going to work. meanwhile the Euro just keeps sliding.
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Let's go back to the beginning, when this crisis with Greece hit mainstream news. If you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done?
patches70 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:
Let's go back to the beginning, when this crisis with Greece hit mainstream news. If you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done?
What an odd question. Tell me, BBS, if you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done when the Greek crisis hit the mainstream news?
BigBallinStalin wrote:patches70 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:
Let's go back to the beginning, when this crisis with Greece hit mainstream news. If you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done?
What an odd question. Tell me, BBS, if you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done when the Greek crisis hit the mainstream news?
I've no idea because I don't know what all my possible choices would be.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
patches70 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:patches70 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:
Let's go back to the beginning, when this crisis with Greece hit mainstream news. If you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done?
What an odd question. Tell me, BBS, if you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done when the Greek crisis hit the mainstream news?
I've no idea because I don't know what all my possible choices would be.
Don't know the choices? You have "perfect control". I take that to mean if you wanted you could print money and just give it to each and every Greek citizen. You can do anything that you could possibly imagine.
Now start imagining and tell me what you'd do.
Hint: Don't be unnerved by your inability to come up with a way to solve a problem that has no solution in regards to CB monetary policy. There is only one real solution, nations just have to stop borrowing and spend less than they take in with the excess going to paying down their debts. In fact, any possible solution you could come up with from the CB's point of view will only make matters worse. Unless, of course, the unthinkable were done. Debt forgiveness. Of course, that in itself has certain pitfalls which I'm sure you are aware of.
GreecePwns wrote:I would have probably given out the same loans, but instead of attaching conditions that answered problems that weren't there, I would have attached two condition: end tax evasion and balance your budget (but, as I've said before, no tax evasion would've led to a surplus anyway).
The rest was an unnecessary power grab.
BigBallinStalin wrote:patches70 wrote:BigBallinStalin wrote:
Let's go back to the beginning, when this crisis with Greece hit mainstream news. If you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done?
What an odd question. Tell me, BBS, if you were a central banker with perfect control over the EU's monetary policy, what would you have done when the Greek crisis hit the mainstream news?
I've no idea because I don't know what all my possible choices would be.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
GreecePwns wrote:[Insert BBS post about unintended consequences]
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
GreecePwns wrote:Alright, if you're head of the ECB and you purposefully lead the Euro to collapse in the most nuclear way possible, odds are you are going to end up in jail.
Not lending the money would be a slap in the face that leads to Greece leaving the Euro, and the Italy and Spain following after. At that point there's no reason for any nation to hold onto a dying currency. Good job, Phatscotty. You've led all of Europe into unprecedented economic meltdown.
Game over, insert $.25 for 1 credit.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
GreecePwns wrote:Alright, if you're head of the ECB and you purposefully lead the Euro to collapse in the most nuclear way possible, odds are you are going to end up in jail.
Not lending the money would be a slap in the face that leads to Greece leaving the Euro, and the Italy and Spain following after. At that point there's no reason for any nation to hold onto a dying currency. Good job, Phatscotty. You've led all of Europe into unprecedented economic meltdown.
Game over, insert $.25 for 1 credit.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
GreecePwns wrote:End up in jail was a bit far. But if you're head of the ECB odds are that ending the ECB isn't really a choice. Then again they did say "perfect control."
What you're describing isn't happening because mainstream Greek politicians have a history of bowing to their overlords at NATO and the Bundestag (just look at the Libyan invasion). Anyway, a Greek exit would most certainly move speculation onto Italy and Spain, which are much larger economies and whose exits would most certainly kill the Euro once and for all, don't you think?
Fruitcake wrote:Not lending the money would be a slap in the face that leads to Greece leaving the Euro, and the Italy and Spain following after. At that point there's no reason for any nation to hold onto a dying currency. Good job, Phatscotty. You've led all of Europe into unprecedented economic meltdown.
Actually that's simplifying matters a tad. Not lending money to Greece would be have to be tied to a withdrawal from the present mechanism. A new Drachma is created, allowed to float, immediately devalues by 50% which would actually hurt the bankers more than anyone...well actually the central bankers who are the lapdogs of their political masters so who really gives a shite anyway. The Euro rises in value.
Ramifications to Greece? They suffer a jump in imported inflation, turn to home made goods for a couple of years while they reconstruct, export like crazy because their goods are so cheap, rebalance their economy and ease back into the mainstream. This isn't rocket science.
Winners overall? Greece, and the Greek people. Losers overall? The Germans
Now ask yourself why this isn't happening.
patches70 wrote:Fruitcake wrote:Not lending the money would be a slap in the face that leads to Greece leaving the Euro, and the Italy and Spain following after. At that point there's no reason for any nation to hold onto a dying currency. Good job, Phatscotty. You've led all of Europe into unprecedented economic meltdown.
Actually that's simplifying matters a tad. Not lending money to Greece would be have to be tied to a withdrawal from the present mechanism. A new Drachma is created, allowed to float, immediately devalues by 50% which would actually hurt the bankers more than anyone...well actually the central bankers who are the lapdogs of their political masters so who really gives a shite anyway. The Euro rises in value.
Ramifications to Greece? They suffer a jump in imported inflation, turn to home made goods for a couple of years while they reconstruct, export like crazy because their goods are so cheap, rebalance their economy and ease back into the mainstream. This isn't rocket science.
Winners overall? Greece, and the Greek people. Losers overall? The Germans
Now ask yourself why this isn't happening.
Exactly. It'll be a bitter pill to swallow in the short run, but in the long run Greece can take control of their own affairs and start on a true path healing (economically speaking).
Right now, Greece is insolvent. No amount of lending to them is going to change that. They'll default eventually. For a long time the EU has been kicking the can down the road. Now instead of kicking the can they've been stomping on it.
The end result is going to be the same. Greece defaults (because they are insolvent), leave the Euro, the return of the Drachma which is immediately devalued and the Greek people pick themselves up and start working their way out of the mess. But at least that way they'll be out from under the thumb of the ECB and the other EU nations who are poised to pillage the hell out of the country.
And all those people who have been saying that Greek bonds are the slam dunk trade of the year get taken to the cleaners.
GreecePwns wrote:Honestly, this is the third time in this thread you're trying to turn this into a spending thing and only a spending thing.
I'm done talking to you about this. I slapped you around on this subject twice before. Just read the fucking thread man. You honestly have no clue what you're talking about. At all.
I agree with all of this.patches70 wrote:Fruitcake wrote:Not lending the money would be a slap in the face that leads to Greece leaving the Euro, and the Italy and Spain following after. At that point there's no reason for any nation to hold onto a dying currency. Good job, Phatscotty. You've led all of Europe into unprecedented economic meltdown.
Actually that's simplifying matters a tad. Not lending money to Greece would be have to be tied to a withdrawal from the present mechanism. A new Drachma is created, allowed to float, immediately devalues by 50% which would actually hurt the bankers more than anyone...well actually the central bankers who are the lapdogs of their political masters so who really gives a shite anyway. The Euro rises in value.
Ramifications to Greece? They suffer a jump in imported inflation, turn to home made goods for a couple of years while they reconstruct, export like crazy because their goods are so cheap, rebalance their economy and ease back into the mainstream. This isn't rocket science.
Winners overall? Greece, and the Greek people. Losers overall? The Germans
Now ask yourself why this isn't happening.
Exactly. It'll be a bitter pill to swallow in the short run, but in the long run Greece can take control of their own affairs and start on a true path healing (economically speaking).
Right now, Greece is insolvent. No amount of lending to them is going to change that. They'll default eventually. For a long time the EU has been kicking the can down the road. Now instead of kicking the can they've been stomping on it.
The end result is going to be the same. Greece defaults (because they are insolvent), leave the Euro, the return of the Drachma which is immediately devalued and the Greek people pick themselves up and start working their way out of the mess. But at least that way they'll be out from under the thumb of the ECB and the other EU nations who are poised to pillage the hell out of the country.
And all those people who have been saying that Greek bonds are the slam dunk trade of the year get taken to the cleaners.
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
GreecePwns wrote:I agree with all of this.patches70 wrote:Fruitcake wrote:Not lending the money would be a slap in the face that leads to Greece leaving the Euro, and the Italy and Spain following after. At that point there's no reason for any nation to hold onto a dying currency. Good job, Phatscotty. You've led all of Europe into unprecedented economic meltdown.
Actually that's simplifying matters a tad. Not lending money to Greece would be have to be tied to a withdrawal from the present mechanism. A new Drachma is created, allowed to float, immediately devalues by 50% which would actually hurt the bankers more than anyone...well actually the central bankers who are the lapdogs of their political masters so who really gives a shite anyway. The Euro rises in value.
Ramifications to Greece? They suffer a jump in imported inflation, turn to home made goods for a couple of years while they reconstruct, export like crazy because their goods are so cheap, rebalance their economy and ease back into the mainstream. This isn't rocket science.
Winners overall? Greece, and the Greek people. Losers overall? The Germans
Now ask yourself why this isn't happening.
Exactly. It'll be a bitter pill to swallow in the short run, but in the long run Greece can take control of their own affairs and start on a true path healing (economically speaking).
Right now, Greece is insolvent. No amount of lending to them is going to change that. They'll default eventually. For a long time the EU has been kicking the can down the road. Now instead of kicking the can they've been stomping on it.
The end result is going to be the same. Greece defaults (because they are insolvent), leave the Euro, the return of the Drachma which is immediately devalued and the Greek people pick themselves up and start working their way out of the mess. But at least that way they'll be out from under the thumb of the ECB and the other EU nations who are poised to pillage the hell out of the country.
And all those people who have been saying that Greek bonds are the slam dunk trade of the year get taken to the cleaners.
Return to Practical Explanation about Next Life,
Users browsing this forum: No registered users