Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [cleared] BG

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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby afroaction on Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:09 pm

Frox333 wrote:so what, i have like 10 friends on this site that i know and play with. is this suddenly against the rules?



Ya it is buddy, you can't have 3 friends playing and one UN-suspecting join the 4th player, in a 4 man game. That's smells like secret-diplomacy, and dirty play. Glad you admitted it Frox333, working on a report on you as we speak.

Play with your friends all you want, but you can't farm someone into your game.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:53 am

tez hodos, kuma32478 & rjhankey have been cleared of being multis and cleared of secret diplomacy.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby afroaction on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:20 am

BGtheBrain wrote:tez hodos, kuma32478 & rjhankey have been cleared of being multis and cleared of secret diplomacy.



Fine they may not be multis, but how in the heck can they be cleared of secret diplomacy when they have 142 standard 3 or 4 man games when 95% are won by either of them?

That's mathematically impossible without point-dumping, double or triple teaming someone. With That many games it comes to a point, nothing has to be said, they are so accustomed in playing each other, they just do what they have to do.

BG, seriously re-think your verdict and what basis have you decided that no secret-diplomacy is not going on?

It's pretty clear to everyone else! :roll:
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [cleared] BG

Postby afroaction on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:23 am

Rule #2: No secret diplomacy

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating assaults. Secret diplomacy can be hard to prove, but if you suspect it you should leave the players in question appropriate ratings. If you feel certain about players engaging in secret diplomacy consider reporting them in the Cheating & Abuse Reports forum by posting a new topic.


Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [cleared] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:28 am

Can you show me specific examples where secret diplomacy is occurring?
Simply telling me someone wins too much, is not enough evidence to warn someone for secret diplomacy.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [cleared] BG

Postby afroaction on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:37 am

BGtheBrain wrote:Can you show me specific examples where secret diplomacy is occurring?
Simply telling me someone wins too much, is not enough evidence to warn someone for secret diplomacy.


Ok i will, give me some time, I'll show you some more evidence.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:39 am

Fair enough
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [cleared] BG

Postby agentcom on Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:29 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:Can you show me specific examples where secret diplomacy is occurring?
Simply telling me someone wins too much, is not enough evidence to warn someone for secret diplomacy.


I think this is wrong. If 3 players, play 100 4 player games and win 95% of them, that is prima facie evidence of collusion. Whether they are consciously cooperating with eachother or not, statistically that just shouldn't happen.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [cleared] BG

Postby chapcrap on Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:39 pm

agentcom wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:Can you show me specific examples where secret diplomacy is occurring?
Simply telling me someone wins too much, is not enough evidence to warn someone for secret diplomacy.


I think this is wrong. If 3 players, play 100 4 player games and win 95% of them, that is prima facie evidence of collusion. Whether they are consciously cooperating with eachother or not, statistically that just shouldn't happen.

I would agree with agentcom, but if you look at the games in his snapshots, most of them are 3 player games with the 3 of them. And until afro actually does the math on the 4 player games, you can't really trust his guestimates.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby chapcrap on Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:47 pm

Just looked and they have played a total of 16 four player games together. I think trying to use 143 as the number is a little misleading, isn't it afro? That's good for a total of 0.25% of their games.

Of the 16, they have won 8, fourth player has won 2 and 6 are ongoing. And of the ongoing ones, one of them has been eliminated in 2 of them. Those percentages don't really play to secret diplomacy.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [cleared] BG

Postby hmsps on Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:04 pm

BGtheBrain wrote:Can you show me specific examples where secret diplomacy is occurring?
Simply telling me someone wins too much, is not enough evidence to warn someone for secret diplomacy.
Come on its not difficult, players in the past have been blocked for playing games like this, they should either have private games for themselves, play team games together or be blocked from doing this in the future. I appreciate you are relatively new but does this really need spelling out. They might not be multis, obviously are friends, they should not be playing games like this together. Even if they lose the odd game, the temptation is just too much.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby afroaction on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:43 pm

tez hodos
kuma32478
rjhankey
Here are the stats i found for the completed games as Aug/23/12

4 man Standard games: tez hodos/kuma32478/ rjhankey 12 results

tez hodos: 6 wins = 50%

kuma32478: 2 wins= 16%

rjhankey: 1 win= 8%

Combined wins= 74% Others: 3 wins= 25%

3 man games: tez hodos/ kuma32478/ rjhankey 24 results

tez hodos: 13 wins= 54%

kuma32478: 3 wins= 12%

rjhankey: 8 wins= 33%

Combined wins=100% Others: 0 wins = 0%

Standard Games: tez hodos/ kuma32478 88 results (7 results of 88 for 5 or more players)

kuma32478: 13 wins= 15%

tez hodos: 38 wins= 43%

(+/- rjhankey 3 wins= 4%)

Combined wins= 62% Others: 38%


Standard: rjhankey/ tez hodos 32 results (1 result of 32 for 5 or more players)

tez hodos: 17 wins= 53%

rjhankey: 6 wins= 19%

(+/-kuma32478 3 wins= 9%)

Combined wins= 81% Others= 19%


If I had those kind of odds, I'd be on the first plane to Vegas!!!!! :lol: Anyways, it's late i'll finish this up tomorow.
Last edited by afroaction on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby nicestash on Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:53 pm

Frox333 wrote:so what, i have like 10 friends on this site that i know and play with. is this suddenly against the rules?

It's not, but if you played a 4 player game with 2 of your friends and teamed up on the stranger before playing amongst each other it would be cheating.

However, it appears the 4th player wins 25% of the time, so that doesn't look like cheating to me...
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby afroaction on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:11 pm

nicestash wrote:However, it appears the 4th player wins 25% of the time, so that doesn't look like cheating to me...


sorry but i have to dis-agree. If there wasn't any collusion between the 3 players, they would all have all equal or par win ratios, not 75% to 25% for the 4th like it is.That's an UN-realistic bell-curve.
Last edited by afroaction on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Secret Diplomacy Possible multis? [pending] BG

Postby BGtheBrain on Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:17 pm

I need something like specific games that show them behaving as though they have an alliance.

The statistics are intriguing but I can't bust people for secret diplomacy just because someone wins too much.
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