Showing ID to Vote

[isaiah40]

I don't think it is necessary for a special voter id card. I do believe you should be required to show an id card to vote.
1)To prove you are a citizen
2)To prove you are alive
3)To prove you exist

If above three are proven then vote.

1) This I can agree on
2) If I show up at the polling booth, I am alive, so showing ID does not prove that I am alive. For all they know I could be a zombie.
3) See point 2.

[Phatscotty]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

[Symmetry]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

Not really, owning a gun as a right is a peculiarity of the US. I don't consider it a right. A right to own something ain't the same as a right to vote, in any case.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote.

[kentington]

Tell you what. Ill explain it to my wall. I know it has at least a chance of understanding and listening.

Not from that poster. From me. I am curious in which ways he is interpreting it wrongly.

I apologize for piquing your curiosity then.

Ok this has become very weird. Troll zone? How about contributing to the topic rather than popping in to just punch it to someone, Symmetry is able to do both sometimes.

Symmetry, it is a peculiarity to the US. But it is in the US constitution, maybe you believe it should be amended but it hasn't been yet. I am waiting to see what Fitz says. If he doesn't I will bring one of my thoughts up.

[Phatscotty]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

Not really, owning a gun as a right is a peculiarity of the US. I don't consider it a right. A right to own something ain't the same as a right to vote, in any case.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote.

you don't. We are giving ID's away for free, so please stop with the lies.

[Night Strike]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

Not really, owning a gun as a right is a peculiarity of the US. I don't consider it a right. A right to own something ain't the same as a right to vote, in any case.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote.

Then why are you commenting on issues that have to do with US Constitutional rights? In the US, owning a gun is on an equal level as voting, speaking, following a religion, etc.

[Phatscotty]

It's good to know Symmetry that your principles only apply to the rights that you think are rights......

How convenient

[BigBallinStalin]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

Not really, owning a gun as a right is a peculiarity of the US. I don't consider it a right. A right to own something ain't the same as a right to vote, in any case.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote.

you don't. We are giving ID's away for free, so please stop with the lies.

Who's giving away IDs for free?

[kentington]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

Not really, owning a gun as a right is a peculiarity of the US. I don't consider it a right. A right to own something ain't the same as a right to vote, in any case.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote.

you don't. We are giving ID's away for free, so please stop with the lies.

Who's giving away IDs for free?

That's what I want to know. The guy near me charges 20 bucks each. And they are very questionable, my wife's had a mustache on her picture.

[Night Strike]

It's good to know Symmetry that your principles only apply to the rights that you think are rights......

How convenient

Which is exactly why we have a Constitution that is supposed to be adhered to at all times or until specifically amended: so people like Symmetry can't come along and arbitrarily remove rights from people.

[BigBallinStalin]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

In order for me to vote, I have to show my drivers license. Since I have to purchase a drivers license or any form of identification with a picture, then I am having to purchase my right to vote from the state--according to Symmetrian logic.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote!


Does my post seem absurd?

[Symmetry]

It's good to know Symmetry that your principles only apply to the rights that you think are rights......

How convenient

Which is exactly why we have a Constitution that is supposed to be adhered to at all times or until specifically amended: so people like Symmetry can't come along and arbitrarily remove rights from people.

Or interpreted, of course, and let's face it the right to own a gun is an interpretation of one amendment in the US. Interestingly, back when the Black Panthers were using the 2nd amendment to argue for the right to own guns, the NRA was strongly against all Americans owning guns. Funny that.

[Symmetry]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

In order for me to vote, I have to show my drivers license. Since I have to purchase a drivers license or any form of identification with a picture, then I am having to purchase my right to vote from the state--according to Symmetrian logic.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote!


Does my post seem absurd?

Why should you have to purchase a license to vote?

[Phatscotty]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

Not really, owning a gun as a right is a peculiarity of the US. I don't consider it a right. A right to own something ain't the same as a right to vote, in any case.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote.

you don't. We are giving ID's away for free, so please stop with the lies.

Who's giving away IDs for free?

We are, Minnesota

The question that will be on the ballot in November reads: “Shall the Minnesota Constitution be amended to require all voters to present valid photo identification to vote and to require the state to provide free identification to eligible voters, effective July 1, 2013?”

[Symmetry]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

If your argument is that you don't need ID because voting is a right, then the same goes for guns.....right?

Not really, owning a gun as a right is a peculiarity of the US. I don't consider it a right. A right to own something ain't the same as a right to vote, in any case.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote.

you don't. We are giving ID's away for free, so please stop with the lies.

Who's giving away IDs for free?

We are, Minnesota

The question that will be on the ballot in November reads: “Shall the Minnesota Constitution be amended to require all voters to present valid photo identification to vote and to require the state to provide free identification to eligible voters, effective July 1, 2013?”

Kind of like Wisconsin? Didn't work out too well there.

[BigBallinStalin]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

In order for me to vote, I have to show my drivers license. Since I have to purchase a drivers license or any form of identification with a picture, then I am having to purchase my right to vote from the state--according to Symmetrian logic.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote!


Does my post seem absurd?

Why should you have to purchase a license to vote?

In order to prove I am who I say I am (if I wasn't then why would I say I am)?

[BigBallinStalin]

But honestly, you shouldn't have to purchase a license in order to vote.
(but technically, everyone pays some amount and at least a promised service (registration for draft) in order to provide some kind of authentic proof of identity).

Election Day Voting

When you go to the polls to cast your vote in an election, be sure to take one of the following:

a driver's license;
a Louisiana Special ID; or
some other generally recognized picture ID that contains your name and signature.

You may get a free Louisiana Special ID at the Office of Motor Vehicles by showing your voter registration information card. If you have misplaced your voter registration information card, contact your registrar of voters for a new one.

Voters who have no picture ID may bring a utility bill, payroll check or government document that includes their name and address. The voter will have to sign an affidavit furnished by the Elections Division in order to vote.

http://www.sos.la.gov/tabid/151/default.aspx

[Symmetry]

Of course there is. Voting is a right. If you have to purchase an ID in order to vote, you're having to purchase your right to vote from the state.

In order for me to vote, I have to show my drivers license. Since I have to purchase a drivers license or any form of identification with a picture, then I am having to purchase my right to vote from the state--according to Symmetrian logic.

You shouldn't have to purchase your vote!


Does my post seem absurd?

Why should you have to purchase a license to vote?

In order to prove I am who I say I am (if I wasn't then why would I say I am)?

And you think you should have to purchase that ability? And carry it whenever you want to exercise a basic right?

[BigBallinStalin]

In the ideal world, I shouldn't have to pay anything in order to prove my identity! (In the ideal world, I shouldn't have to pay anything to eat, and I should be paid $1,000,000 per year for writing on CC!) But that's being unrealistic because some people lie; therefore, you need to require that proper identification must be shown in order to vote. Otherwise, it would be easy to further corrupt the elections.


Which is why I don't understand the OP because LA already requires you to bring some form of identification in order to vote.

[Symmetry]

In the ideal world, I shouldn't have to pay anything in order to prove my identity! (In the ideal world, I shouldn't have to pay anything to eat, and I should be paid $1,000,000 per year for writing on CC!) But that's being unrealistic because some people lie; therefore, you need to require that proper identification must be shown in order to vote. Otherwise, it would be easy to further corrupt the elections.


Which is why I don't understand the OP because LA already requires you to bring some form of identification in order to vote.

How's that working for providing ID to purchase alcohol? I understand that it merely fuels a booming trade in fake IDs. If the problem is that people are voting fraudulently, as you suggest, would they not be able to vote with fraudulent IDs?

What would be next? Registered fingerprints and iris scans?

All for a problem that is largely theoretical.

[BigBallinStalin]

In the ideal world, I shouldn't have to pay anything in order to prove my identity! (In the ideal world, I shouldn't have to pay anything to eat, and I should be paid $1,000,000 per year for writing on CC!) But that's being unrealistic because some people lie; therefore, you need to require that proper identification must be shown in order to vote. Otherwise, it would be easy to further corrupt the elections.


Which is why I don't understand the OP because LA already requires you to bring some form of identification in order to vote.

How's that working for providing ID to purchase alcohol? I understand that it merely fuels a booming trade in fake IDs. If the problem is that people are voting fraudulently, as you suggest, would they not be able to vote with fraudulent IDs?

What would be next? Registered fingerprints and iris scans?

All for a problem that is largely theoretical.

The answer is "good enough" to your question. Now, you do raise some good points, and of course, more could always be done, but ID cards in comparison to iris scanners is a good enough tradeoff given the current outcomes.


:et's examine the empirical data on incidents of voter fraud in LA given its current policies in enforcing the Election Code. Then, we'll use the economic way of thinking on this problem.


Louisiana Voter Fraud
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/L ... vote_fraud

Past incidents of fraud in Louisiana: 1997, "more than 1,400 cases in which two voters used the same Social Security number."
Dead people voting in Louisiana (since 2008): 0.
Incarcerated felons voting in Louisiana (2008): 0

October 14, 2008: "Over 50% of the 8,600 voter registrations turned in by the national group Voting Is Power (which has been associated with ACORN) were incomplete or incorrectly filled out."
"They turned in about 8600 applications, out of that number 1400 new ones, sorted out the new and then we had around 1400 address changes, the rest of them were non existent."
Disenfranchised districts:
Some poll staff were discouraging people from voting.


Etc., it seems that voting in LA has some problems, but it's not rampant. It's "good enough" given the identification policy which is supplemented with other means of enforcement.


Suppose that all laws for requiring identification in order to vote were dropped--which is what you say should happen because voting is a basic right. Would you expect an increase in voter fraud and other forms of cheating?
I would. Why?


Because the price of committing illegal actions would be significantly reduced through the means of voting in person at the ballots. Enforcement through the requirement of voter identification imposes a transaction cost. On the margin, as the price of voting in increased, then fewer and fewer people will commit that crime (because the costs become higher than the benefits of cheating). This price is also influenced by other means of enforcement, like the FBI and other bureaucrats, who level fines and jail time.

Now, of course, people can seek substitutes by finding fake IDs, but that endeavor has to be subsidized by some organization in order to be effective, so you'd need some means for laundering money for such activities. Then, you'd have to find and pay enough willing people (who risk the jail time) to commit fraud. Since this hardly happens, given the current system, then the possible substitute of fake IDs is not too much of concern.

What's more effective is having dead people vote, or sending in votes en masse using fake addresses. And those substitutes go beyond the identification requirements; however, this would not justify dropping the ID requirement because the ID requirement is a relatively cheap means to impose a cost-effective enough price on committing voter fraud at the ballots.

[BigBallinStalin]

So, given my above point, I fail to see why specific Voter IDs are worth the costs.

LA already has the maens which deals well enough with voter fraud and other forms of cheating; therefore, a voter ID is not required.

To me, this voter ID seems to be another means for the government to increase its spending, provide more jobs (at the cost of taking more money from people, or by printing it, or borrowing it), etc.

Anyone in favor of voter ID laws--which require a specific Voter ID Card--are... not making sense.

[Phatscotty]

2012-09-07 19:04:22 - AAFitz assaulted Audience - A5 from Audience - A12 and conquered it from Phatscotty

See you in the arena

[PLAYER57832]

The only people against it are those who want non-citizens the ability to vote! If you are a citizen whats the big deal having to show your ID. VOTER FRAUD is why people are against it! Would Obama have won in 2008 if ID's were required?

There is no RATIONAL reason NOT to have to show ID!

I see, so do you have records on illegal aliens attempting to vote?

or have any idea how much voter fraud there is of any type, overall?

Answer.. its not very much at all!

[Phatscotty]

The only people against it are those who want non-citizens the ability to vote! If you are a citizen whats the big deal having to show your ID. VOTER FRAUD is why people are against it! Would Obama have won in 2008 if ID's were required?

There is no RATIONAL reason NOT to have to show ID!

I see, so do you have records on illegal aliens attempting to vote?

or have any idea how much voter fraud there is of any type, overall?

Answer.. its not very much at all!

The biggest problem with this issue is that people who come to the answer "not very much at all" are making the biggest and most unsubstantiated guesses of anyone.