Classic Cities: Madrid [Quenched]

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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:21 pm

ManBungalow wrote:What is even going on in this map ?

What do you mean by that?

ian, I take it then you want the names changing then to Copenhagen style. Not districts but a general what is in that area feel. PMed the Madrid players that have helped me on this one to suggest some. Will get it done as soon as they respond as this is there city and they know what's what.

But is this something like what you are after? Something more cartoon like.
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EDIT: reread your original post, with the moving of the 4 main buildings, zoo, stadium, bullring and station. Will get onto that now. But I think the names that are going to be changed I will keep in the style above. For any major building, it will get that name but for the rest I think a comic style of name would fit the map.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby iancanton on Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:23 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Not districts but a general what is in that area feel.

exactly!

koontz1973 wrote:PMed the Madrid players that have helped me on this one to suggest some. Will get it done as soon as they respond as this is there city and they know what's what.

i'm sure they'll tell us whether we're heading in the right direction!

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:16 am

Went into google maps and looked at photos of each district from what tourists think are worth photographing. Names changes have come from those. The district names where correct as instructed by players from Madrid so these places should also be correct.

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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [10/9] V9 Pg 1/3 Is gameplay good?

Postby iancanton on Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:09 am

the new names are much more in line with what i expect from a city map, rather than the london or hong kong maps that are good mainly if u have an interest in local government.

now the final step toward the theme that i outlined earlier is to focus on the centre, as given in the list below, by eliminating the outer ring of regions and expanding the remaining area to include the better-known places.
snelliugmj wrote:I hardly recognize any of the buildings that are there, In fact the city has several distinct atractions (check on google images for: Puerta del sol, puerta de alcalá, oso y madroño, plaza castilla, cibeles, neptuno, palacio real, plaza mayor, parque del retiro, museo del prado, atocha, Santiago bernabeu, torre picasso, conjunto 4 torres).


perhaps one way to effect this change is to start by renaming the regions as if u were covering only central madrid: palacio de pardo becomes plaza de castilla, barajas becomes ventas and so on; after this, draw suitable pictures for each region; after this is done, impassables and the river can be shifted to fit the new names and pictures (the position of the river is already wrong for the original map, so u'll have to change it anyway, since it ought to run to the west of plaza de espana).

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:08 am

ian, I am doing the re draw now but I need to know, is the GP good for you and nole? Each of these buildings take time to draw so to cut back on the wasted time, is there any territ lines, crossings or anything else that needs to be moved or changed? If I know now, then I can incorporate it in.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby iancanton on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:00 pm

koontz1973 wrote:ian, I am doing the re draw now but I need to know, is the GP good for you and nole? Each of these buildings take time to draw so to cut back on the wasted time, is there any territ lines, crossings or anything else that needs to be moved or changed? If I know now, then I can incorporate it in.

i agree with the gameplay principles that u've set, that of 8 start positions of 1 region each, with underlying neutrals of 2 and limited to a maximum of 1 position per player, so that no-one gains a starting bonus.

if u use the existing map as a base, then the bonus zone borders will obviously change depending on which places u use, for example there might be 5 regions in a bonus zone that contains puerto del sol, plaza mayor, palacio real, museo del prado and plaza de cibeles (or the boundaries might change if u choose different locations or group the regions differently).

the only real clanger u have on the original map is that u've put plaza de espana on the wrong side of the river, which itself is visually too prominent and central. in fact, most people don't even know that madrid has a river going thru it. i did intend atocha to be at the bottom of the map, but only after u expanded the centre: the correct position on the new map will be next to both museo del prado and parque del retiro.

try choosing the names first (i gave two of them to u already in the previous post) and seeing whether they fit the existing map with a few tweaks, as a rough diagram for gameplay purposes. this change isn't as difficult as on some other maps because of the small number of regions and because no-one is likely to be grossly insulted by a bonus zone being called one name rather than another. if u ensure that the regions connect sensibly to each other (i'll probably ask for impassables to be changed) and there isn't one big bonus zone in the middle and small ones round the outside, then u're more than halfway there.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:08 pm

I have zoomed right in with the re draw. The whole of the red region is now Casa de Campo. It is a huge park in Madrid which holds the zoo and other attractions like an amusement park as well. Have started on the centre set. I am trying to keep the same basic layout but make it more based on the city itself. I was trying to get away (as much as possible) from the standard maps we have which is why the comical style.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby iancanton on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:04 pm

"zoomed right in" sounds good. the nature of a city is that roads are everywhere, but we must have impassables for gameplay purposes. regarding connections, u therefore have quite a lot of choice as to which region borders what, as long as u keep it fairly logical.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:39 am

Keeping the same basic layout with the roads that are on there. As you say, roads are everywhere and as no names have been given to them, it does not matter what they are. Having problems with the center 6 territs but that came about with the buildings chosen and the scale of which to draw them. Retiro park and the bull ring stay where they are but have gone through a re draw for what is around them. I hope to get the next version up at the weekend.

Territ lines, going to keep these in, using the roads would be better but with the crossings and the buildings, I am not sure if they will be noticed in the tight spaces.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby iancanton on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:23 am

merge orange and pink, which are two tiny bonus zones on the edge of the map. similarly, yellow and cyan. consider splitting green into two, to prevent the central area from becoming a wasteland that no-one wants.

straighten out most of the roads if u can. straight roads that take a turn only at intersections are typical of the city itself, while the motorway-style curves that u have fit the outer suburbs better. eliminate the centre line on the roads, to help to distinguish the zebra crossings.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:13 am

iancanton wrote:merge orange and pink, which are two tiny bonus zones on the edge of the map. similarly, yellow and cyan. consider splitting green into two, to prevent the central area from becoming a wasteland that no-one wants.

Merging the two small ones to give another 5 territ bonus gives the south all the easy bonuses. Opened up orange so it is harder to get and hold and also stops it having one leading to the other bonus syndrome. Splitting green gives a 2 more regions of 3 but have reduced it by one and added retiro part to cyans area. See no reason to merge yellow and cyan now that cyan is 3 territs.

Why do you want so many 5 territ bonus regions? (Red, Green, Orange + pink, Yellow + cyan). That would only leave blue as an easy bonus.
straighten out most of the roads if u can. straight roads that take a turn only at intersections are typical of the city itself, while the motorway-style curves that u have fit the outer suburbs better. eliminate the centre line on the roads, to help to distinguish the zebra crossings.

ian. :)

Straighten out the roads? I do not understand this one. If this was Copenhagen of Miami, then I would agree, but what on this map gives you the impression of a typical city. ;)
Removed the centre line and you are right, the crossing look better.

Changed.
All territ names now correspond with the unique building inside the territ.
Area covered not is only the city centre.
Kept the river as is, if it goes to scale and nothing on this map is to scale it becomes so small it cannot really be seen.
Kept all bridge crossings as is.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [22/9] V9 Pg 1/4 New Names. GP?

Postby iancanton on Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:34 am

shaping up very well! while some famous landmarks aren't included, we have to make choices based on location, variety and image recognition. this u've done nicely, while keeping the colourful feel of the graphics.

koontz1973 wrote:Opened up orange so it is harder to get and hold and also stops it having one leading to the other bonus syndrome. Splitting green gives a 2 more regions of 3 but have reduced it by one and added retiro part to cyans area.

the extra connection to orange is a definite improvement.

koontz1973 wrote:Straighten out the roads? I do not understand this one.

just by looking at a madrid street map, u'll see that most streets inside the calle 30 ring road are straight. however, calle 30 itself is curved, just like the road u have going northward from retiro. i assumed that the coloured intra-zone border lines were supposed to be crossable streets, in which case it made sense that these were straight, but this assumption breaks down in casa de campo.

koontz1973 wrote:Kept all bridge crossings as is.

the best-known bridge across the river, and the only convenient one for most pedestrian tourists, is the puente de segovia, which connects palacio real with santa cristina. most reasonable routes from retiro park (which is nowhere near the river) to san miguel arcangel go via palacio real (puenta de segovia) or atocha, then via santa cristina.

http://www.campingaranjuez.co.uk/madrid ... govia.html

let's extend the palacio real gardens southward and atocha northward so that they together cut off retiro park from the river (which fixes the most obvious incongruity on the map). also, move the bridge so that it goes from palacio real to santa cristina. if u don't want to move the bridge, then it's possible to swap the position of santa cristina with that of san miguel arcangel, which has some logic because the latter is directly in between santa cristina and surbatan.

franços rodriguez ought to be francos rodriguez.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [28/9] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:15 am

What I meant about the roads (I know most are straight in the city) is that what impression have I given that this is in any way a normal city map. I wanted it to be colourful, fun, bring a little life to it so we do not get another straight map. I would like to keep them as they are (straighter than last time) but with that sense of fun about them.

Will move the palace and bridge. Can I keep the bridge I have so players recognise it?
Will move atocha north (I take it I can move the territ line itself and not the buildings?
santa cristina is north of san miguel arcangel so will not swap, but will move the buildings in that area to form an impassable and open up the other route.
Will correct spelling.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [28/9] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:39 am

New.
Buildings in blue.
Changed bridge location from blue to green.
New territ font.
Territ line in cyan and buildings.
Spellings.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [1/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby NoSurvivors on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:58 am

Rename assdoodle assmadrid :lol: gl with the map! looks like fun!
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [28/9] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby iancanton on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:10 pm

koontz1973 wrote:What I meant about the roads (I know most are straight in the city) is that what impression have I given that this is in any way a normal city map. I wanted it to be colourful, fun, bring a little life to it so we do not get another straight map. I would like to keep them as they are (straighter than last time) but with that sense of fun about them.

NoSurvivors wrote:looks like fun!

i think we have a seal of approval!

koontz1973 wrote:Will move the palace and bridge. Can I keep the bridge I have so players recognise it?

bridges look good at the size that u have them. on cc maps, bridges are often so small that the detail is lost.

koontz1973 wrote:Will move atocha north (I take it I can move the territ line itself and not the buildings?

u've found a neat solution.

koontz1973 wrote:santa cristina is north of san miguel arcangel so will not swap, but will move the buildings in that area to form an impassable and open up the other route.

this works pretty well.

for the start positions, perhaps u can have underlying n1 positions in the large bonus zones but underlying n2 positions in the small bonus zones, so that the large bonuses look more attractive.

i'll take a copy with me to madrid this weekend and see whether i'm tempted to visit any of the places pictured.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [1/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:47 pm

Green and red get the one neutral and all others can have a two neutral.

24 territs.
2 player games - 6 territs
3 player games - 6territs
4 player games - 5 territs
5 player games - 5 territs
6 player games - 3 territs
7 player games - 3 territs
8 player games - 3 territs

Neutrals to go into. Max of one given out at start of games.
Lago de la casa de campo
Moncloa
Ventilla
Parque Agustin Rodriguez

Imagen Curiosa
Becquer
Atocha
San Miguel Arcangel
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [1/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:24 am

Just bonuses.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [1/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby iancanton on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:40 pm

parroquia appears to mean parish church and there are several of these in madrid. the name of the church beside retiro park is parroquia del santísimo sacramento, but the shorter los sacramentinos is also used. we spotted one of the church towers by accident when exiting ibiza metro station to walk through retiro park to the palacio de cibeles.

bonus values match the zones much better now.

ian. :)
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [5/10] V10 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Named changed.
Moved other names and buildings around for better fit when army numbers go on.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [14/10] V11 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby Nola_Lifer on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:34 am

Is it possible to have everything on this map in Espanol? I know we are suppose to keep it to English but Spanish is 2nd known language, it is a map about Madrid, it won't be that hard to figure out even if you don't know Spanish.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [14/10] V11 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:38 am

I would like that Nola but I think the position of the foundry is to have the legends in English and territ names in English or regions language.

If the blue boys say it is OK, I will get it done.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [14/10] V11 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:51 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:Is it possible to have everything on this map in Espanol? I know we are suppose to keep it to English but Spanish is 2nd known language, it is a map about Madrid, it won't be that hard to figure out even if you don't know Spanish.

koontz1973 wrote:I would like that Nola but I think the position of the foundry is to have the legends in English and territ names in English or regions language.

If the blue boys say it is OK, I will get it done.

I don't see why not. We have France 1789 with French names, I believe the Iberia map has the names in the respective languages. Also Nordic countries does the same thing. thenobodies80 can correct me, but as long as the names are readable, then there should not be a problem. Just please don't try a map with oriental characters in the legend and the map!
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [14/10] V11 Pg 1/5 GP?

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:56 am

isaiah40 wrote:
Nola_Lifer wrote:Is it possible to have everything on this map in Espanol? I know we are suppose to keep it to English but Spanish is 2nd known language, it is a map about Madrid, it won't be that hard to figure out even if you don't know Spanish.

koontz1973 wrote:I would like that Nola but I think the position of the foundry is to have the legends in English and territ names in English or regions language.

If the blue boys say it is OK, I will get it done.

I don't see why not. We have France 1789 with French names, I believe the Iberia map has the names in the respective languages. Also Nordic countries does the same thing. thenobodies80 can correct me, but as long as the names are readable, then there should not be a problem. Just please don't try a map with oriental characters in the legend and the map!

I think Nola wanted it like this. All text in Spanish as the rules are simple and everybody should know (even new players) by extension of games played before. I very much doubt this would be map 1 for any player. Happy for it to go forward either way, but forward I would like to go. ;)
Map with all Spanish text.
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Original map with English legend.
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Re: Classic Cities Madrid [18/10] V11 Pg 1/5 Spanish Text

Postby ManBungalow on Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:55 am

This is still graphically overloaded.
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