Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby samgrossy on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:26 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:Vote gregg For the badly put together post and failing logic behind it. Fos Sam G for making the statement he would leave his vote were it was,but didnt want to be associated with gregg's post (which automatically did associate him with it) and then after being informed Jak has full claimed trying to stay with that pressure. Why would you keep pressure with a deadline loming on someone who has claimed?
if he is lying it will out shortly.

But rather than to assist with Gregg you sidestep it.


jgordon, let me explain your error in your post. I believe, as I have laid out in several posts, that Jak is scum. So, he can claim all he wants that he is this and that and whatever, but I think he is guilty. So its not about putting pressure on him, its about me firmly believing he is guilty. If I am wrong, then so be it.

And the part about greg? I was trying to be a little grumpy at Greg because his post wasn't contributing anything to the case built on Jak. I think that you would agree that his post was maybe one of the most epically worst posts in mafia history with a vote attached to it. I was saying, in my own (and obviously mistaken way) that if he was going to build a case against someone, it better be based on some facts. Greg obviously got the point when he then posted a little better argument about Jak and his guilt. If you note, I thought that was better, so I didn't comment on it. Maybe I should have. So here goes:

Greg - That post was a little better. At least there is some legit arguments in it.

So you see jgordon, its about me completely thinking I'm right about Jak. He hasn't proven to me that he is NOT scum. And if Jak flips scum (provided he gets lynched), then your post is a huge deflection and I think I know my next case.

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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby pancakemix on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:07 pm

Commander9 wrote:Confirm. Just to let you all know, in all likelihood, I won't be able to read up fully until Wednesday, but I will try do my best.


Bout time you came back. :P

y'all aint down for pressuring jak?


Read: "Noooo guuuuuys, go after jak instead! He's a bad guy!"

As scummy as I think Jak is, Greg's move was a pretty blatant bandwagon. I'd like to see how this plays out, but you just seem more interested in arguing in circles with jak.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby strike wolf on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:34 pm

Regardless of how good or bad man's arguments are. he has been able to confirm his role as a vote stealer (or did no one notice Victor's missing vote and the ??? vote on Mr. Squirrel?) Personally I will take a vote manipulative role as non-scum 85% of the time (too strong a role to give mafia in most circumstances).
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby chapcrap on Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:37 pm

I generally agree with strike's latest post.

I think it's kind of ironic how many people bandwagon greg for bandwagoning...

I think that vodean is acting strangely.

I already said that I thought we should go after an inactive or one of the people in the middle of things. To be sure, greg was not one of the people I was thinking. However, as always, I appreciate some good Day 1, er Day 1: The Sequel, pressure. So, I will vote greg for pressure if something hasn't happened the next time I check in.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby / on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:27 pm

Heya Comm, so you don't have to look back to see it, there are a few questions asked of you.
1. Your role name (and who, if anyone that was historically)
2. The current status of your vote
3. The current status of your power

Unvote for now

And to others, I seriously caution you, scum may have uber-powerful roles, so leave any preconceptions behind, last golden pantheon I had 8 busdrives that could be used AT THE SAME TIME, there was a role that could as a last resort; end the entire game at will and have a random chance of giving scum the win out of nowhere.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby DRoZ on Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:35 pm

I have had nothing much to add, I dislike posting short obvious agreement posts. Typically when I post I like it to have some sort of substance not the usual fluff, nevertheless, I do apologize for my inactivity. I am still disappointed how the end of day one went as well as the lack of much defined activity last night. I was further disappointed when many of the posts today centered around flavor speculation. I just haven't really seen anything that has stood out, outside of what has already been noticed. I really believe there is more to be learned from hensow's actions yesterday, and I still remain suspicious of aage. I will return my vote to where it was yesterday, VOTE HENSOW, in hopes that pressure will draw out some more scummy behavior. I also hope that votes on vode, jak, and greg will be productive, and I look forward to what we can learn from com9.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby gregwolf121 on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:19 pm

well since it seems my post offended a good many ill apologize, but my vote stays,
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby Hensow on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:48 pm

DRoZ wrote:VOTE HENSOW, in hopes that pressure will draw out some more scummy behavior.
I'm going to go ahead and ignore that. Mostly cose I don't know how to respond but also couse it says I'm looking to ponce on your reponce
gregwolf121 wrote:well first off haven't been posting because i got swamped by college, Uni but now that its calmed down a bit ill put in my two cents, from what i remember of my reading the biggest case, ie the most arguing is centered around jak gregwold well at least the last page or so ,...
is it me or is this asking for vote gregwolf wilst Jak has confused me and tied him self in knots this is not a well resoned vote and because of that gregwolf seems the scummier.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby pancakemix on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:14 pm

strike wolf wrote:Regardless of how good or bad man's arguments are. he has been able to confirm his role as a vote stealer (or did no one notice Victor's missing vote and the ??? vote on Mr. Squirrel?) Personally I will take a vote manipulative role as non-scum 85% of the time (too strong a role to give mafia in most circumstances).


And normally, I would agree with this sentiment (vote-steal is often seen as a scum role, but this is a fallacy). However, the evidence seems to suggest that there are two vote stealing roles, with both Sully and Com9/Illy having their votes stolen. That's not the kind of role that would be likely to double on one side. To elaborate:

In a hypothetical 25 player game (not this one, for the sake of argument) there are likely to be multiple investigative roles. This will occur for a number of reasons, such as the faceted abilities of different investigators and the possibility of town being up the river by Day 2 if a lone cop were to go down. I'd like to focus on the former, however. You see, there's utility to having, say, a cop, a watcher, and a tracker as opposed to having only one or two. Each one has a different job and gets different things out of their actions. The town is then richer for the presence of all of them.

A vote stealer does not function in this way. It does not have the depth to provide that sort of utility in having more than just one. In addition, its inherent utility is far more advanced then that of a cop. For instance, if I were a cop and thought Player A was scummy, I'd investigate him and act accordingly. With a vote stealer, it's more complicated than that. If I thought player A was scummy as a vote stealer, I'd steal his vote in order to stifle him, but that's all I really can do. It can help to get him lynched and possibly prevent him from arguing in his own defense (lack of interest mindgame, etc.) and that's all. There is no other way to expand on that ability, save for some serious creativity (Ex. Squirrel's role in CYOC, but that game was intended to be a bit outlandish. Even that isn't out of the umbrella of existing individually).

Therefore:

1. I suggest that one of our vote stealers is scum, because it is not to town's benefit to have two.
2. We know for a fact that Jak is a vote stealer
3. If we accept 1. and 2., there's a 50/50 chance that Jak is scum. There've been better odds, but considering the way Jak has been acting and what stage the game is in, I'd say it's worth taking a stab.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby pancakemix on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:20 pm

Hensow wrote:
DRoZ wrote:VOTE HENSOW, in hopes that pressure will draw out some more scummy behavior.
I'm going to go ahead and ignore that. Mostly cose I don't know how to respond but also couse it says I'm looking to ponce on your reponce
gregwolf121 wrote:well first off haven't been posting because i got swamped by college, Uni but now that its calmed down a bit ill put in my two cents, from what i remember of my reading the biggest case, ie the most arguing is centered around jak gregwold well at least the last page or so ,...
is it me or is this asking for vote gregwolf wilst Jak has confused me and tied him self in knots this is not a well resoned vote and because of that gregwolf seems the scummier.


I also wanted to respond to this.

I have no idea what it means, though.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby aage on Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:12 am

pancakemix wrote:
Hensow wrote:
DRoZ wrote:VOTE HENSOW, in hopes that pressure will draw out some more scummy behavior.
I'm going to go ahead and ignore that. Mostly cose I don't know how to respond but also couse it says I'm looking to ponce on your reponce
gregwolf121 wrote:well first off haven't been posting because i got swamped by college, Uni but now that its calmed down a bit ill put in my two cents, from what i remember of my reading the biggest case, ie the most arguing is centered around jak gregwold well at least the last page or so ,...
is it me or is this asking for vote gregwolf wilst Jak has confused me and tied him self in knots this is not a well resoned vote and because of that gregwolf seems the scummier.


I also wanted to respond to this.

I have no idea what it means, though.

I had a question about that. What is "reponce"?

As to your previous post, it's true that vote stealing isn't very useful to town as you can also just lynch the person you think is scum. On the other hand, you would need leverage to do that and as a vote stealer you don't have that much. You're going to have a hard time convincing the rest of town. I think you can look at it in a roleblocker kind of way, but instead of blocking the role you block the vote. The act of stealing the vote so that you can use the vote isn't that significant, because what's one vote on 25 people?
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby jonty125 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:52 am

aage wrote:I had a question about that. What is "reponce"?


Probably response.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby aage on Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:13 am

jonty125 wrote:
aage wrote:I had a question about that. What is "reponce"?


Probably response.

"to ponce on your reponce"... then what's ponce? Ah well I'll just ignore it.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby DRoZ on Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:41 am

I believe he meant "pounce on your response"
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby strike wolf on Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:59 am

True enough Pancake. I mentioned that earlier as far as two Vote Stealers. However I won't give it 50/50 odds.

First, we have no confirmation that Illiad's vote really was stolen (and since it was his secret vote we really can't get confirmation). I would tend to believe him but there isn't confirmation.

Second, Jak has come forward and admitted to stealing Victor's however no one has come forward to admit that they stole Iliad's. So when a Vote Stealer willingly comes forward admitting it, I tend to believe them over the clandestine stealer.

It's still more of a 75/25 split.
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby / on Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:47 pm

Why do you assume it was the secret vote stolen, strike? I don't believe that was ever confirmed.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby aage on Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:56 am

/ wrote:Why do you assume it was the secret vote stolen, strike? I don't believe that was ever confirmed.

Maybe because that's what Iliad said happened?
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby strike wolf on Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:00 am

Actually I looked back and it appears that / was right. He never confirmed which vote was stolen. I think someone else said that and I misremembered it as Iliad saying it himself.
Iliad wrote:The upside of calling everyone scum and making 1000 predictions is that statistically you should get a few right.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby nagerous on Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:53 pm

chapcrap wrote:I generally agree with strike's latest post.

I think it's kind of ironic how many people bandwagon greg for bandwagoning...

I think that vodean is acting strangely.

I already said that I thought we should go after an inactive or one of the people in the middle of things. To be sure, greg was not one of the people I was thinking. However, as always, I appreciate some good Day 1, er Day 1: The Sequel, pressure. So, I will vote greg for pressure if something hasn't happened the next time I check in.


It is impossible to get a lynch without ultimately bandwagoning taking place, especially in a 25 player game some peoples' voting posts will be weaker than others. What people didn't like about gregwolf's post was that it was not well thought out and his reasons for voting seemed insincere.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby jak111 on Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:12 pm

Looks like I didn't miss too much (Check vacation thread later to see why I was inactive) but it seems most people have stated what I was gonna use to defend myself against my aggressors, I have been open about it and it has been confirmed I have Victor's vote. Scum doing a move like that would be pretty damn risky. I feel like we still haven't gotten anywhere's even with my outting of it.

Sam seems dead set on me ;o but I can deal with that. People are NOW bandwagoning Greg, so somehow the word hypocrites comes to mind when they all state the same reasons after another. Just saying.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby pancakemix on Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:26 pm

strike wolf wrote:True enough Pancake. I mentioned that earlier as far as two Vote Stealers. However I won't give it 50/50 odds.

First, we have no confirmation that Illiad's vote really was stolen (and since it was his secret vote we really can't get confirmation). I would tend to believe him but there isn't confirmation.

Second, Jak has come forward and admitted to stealing Victor's however no one has come forward to admit that they stole Iliad's. So when a Vote Stealer willingly comes forward admitting it, I tend to believe them over the clandestine stealer.

It's still more of a 75/25 split.


On your first point, that's a terribly silly thing to lie about, especially for someone who is presumed to be town. If it were false, what would be gained from us believing a lie?

On your second, there are a number of things to consider. First: Vote stealer is primarily considered pro-town. One would have to assume Jak would know this, because he's smart. But taking that into account, it's also a fact he might try to use to his advantage. He's certainly not beyond complex schemes and tricks (see: the NL debacle earlier today). So I'm not willing to take his claim at face value, pretty much because I always think there's a chance he's up to no good.

Fastposted by jak. Doesn't really change what I was gonna say.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby jak111 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:34 am

pancakemix wrote:On your first point, that's a terribly silly thing to lie about, especially for someone who is presumed to be town. If it were false, what would be gained from us believing a lie?


Interesting Pancake, does it not cross your mind that there may be no other vote stealer? It's a risky move but one he pulled off well if he isn't who he says he is. The gain? Town credit, you know this is true. Scum want town credit to zip on by.

Although what has me REALLY thinking is this... for those who said earlier there may not be a cult, there HAVE to be third parties out there of some kind. Otherwise you're looking at a balance of 6-8 scum.. which would be terribly overpowered. But the reason why I bring this note up is I want the people who are town to be watching for a group thing going on. In this game I will say MINIMUM of 5 scum. 2-3 of them are bound to be teaming up somewhere to make a townie look scummy.

For today, my final vote is going on a guy I find is just getting by by one liners. Whether he's a VT, third party, or scum, we need active people in the days to come.

Unvote, Vote Vodean (My second vote will be placed here too)

There's a couple of reasons behind this if people care to check.
~Lately posts have been sort of random and non contributing.
~One liners have been his motto for the past 2 weeks or so.
~His post on me not being an angel so therefore being scum when he voted me when I outed myself seems a bit odd. It means he isn't a human 100% So whether he's an angel, demon, or 3rd party we will get to finally start unraveling some of the mysteries.

For town reads, this is what I got.
~Violet
~Sam
~/

So 3 clears in my books.

Gonna go through and check who else is getting by with one-liners. Those are the ones that have a huge chance of being non town or at least non essential to town if we mislynch.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby jonty125 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:42 am

jak111 wrote:Sam seems dead set on me ;o but I can deal with that. People are NOW bandwagoning Greg, so somehow the word hypocrites comes to mind when they all state the same reasons after another. Just saying.


This is a 25 player game, people have to BW to get a lynch.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby pancakemix on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:05 am

Interesting Pancake, does it not cross your mind that there may be no other vote stealer? It's a risky move but one he pulled off well if he isn't who he says he is. The gain? Town credit, you know this is true. Scum want town credit to zip on by.


There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start. We already know he's a double voter. He proved that. That gives him all the town credit he needs. Lying about it is just kinda pouring it on too thickly. That's also a terribly harebrained scheme, the kind that I just attributed to you in my last post (a part of which you did not address). If it's the kind of thing you think someone else would try to do, it's probably something that you would try to do to.

Now, I thought I was pretty clear on all of the above in my last few posts, but either I was wrong or you weren't paying attention. And I know I cover my points well in all my posts.
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aage wrote:Never trust CYOC or pancake.
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Sergeant pancakemix
 
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Postby vodean on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:52 am

jak111 wrote:
pancakemix wrote:On your first point, that's a terribly silly thing to lie about, especially for someone who is presumed to be town. If it were false, what would be gained from us believing a lie?


Interesting Pancake, does it not cross your mind that there may be no other vote stealer? It's a risky move but one he pulled off well if he isn't who he says he is. The gain? Town credit, you know this is true. Scum want town credit to zip on by.you arent even really making any sense here. you are saying that the other person would want to look town by claiming... so you claimed to get town cred. thats what you're saying, correct? that's what it sounds like.

Although what has me REALLY thinking is this... for those who said earlier there may not be a cult, there HAVE to be third parties out there of some kind. Otherwise you're looking at a balance of 6-8 scum.. which would be terribly overpowered. But the reason why I bring this note up is I want the people who are town to be watching for a group thing going on. In this game I will say MINIMUM of 5 scum. 2-3 of them are bound to be teaming up somewhere to make a townie look scummy.

For today, my final vote is going on a guy I find is just getting by by one liners. Whether he's a VT, third party, or scum, we need active people in the days to come.

Unvote, Vote Vodean (My second vote will be placed here too)

There's a couple of reasons behind this if people care to check.
~Lately posts have been sort of random and non contributing.school, work, sports. im a busy man. i also live several lives outside of CC, as blasphemous as that may sound.
~One liners have been his motto for the past 2 weeks or so. see above. youve said the same thing twice, hoping people will see two separate arguments and hop on your BW.
~His post on me not being an angel so therefore being scum when he voted me when I outed myself seems a bit odd. It means he isn't a human 100% So whether he's an angel, demon, or 3rd party we will get to finally start unraveling some of the mysteries.you said you werent human. i then inferred that since you didnt seem to be an angel, you must be a demon (i think 3rd parties are likely all human). stop twisting our words. you are clearly lying, and trying to redirect and mislead town. the question is what you are leading us away from? scumbuddies?

For town reads, this is what I got.
~Violet
~Sam
~/

So 3 clears in my books.

Gonna go through and check who else is getting by with one-liners. Those are the ones that have a huge chance of being non town or at least non essential to town if we mislynch.

you are totally screwing yourself over. you are using straw man argument (deliberately modifying our arguments to make them easier to attack). the majority of my argument is in color above. see, now you incited me, and im making a longer post despite working 9 hours a day on weekends and having school and a club sport to deal with on top of that.
This case against jak reminds me of my case against clever in matrix mafia. after weeks of no one believing me, we lynched him and he flipped scum.
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<NoSurvivors› then vote chuck for being an info whore
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