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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Square blocks/walls page 18

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:03 am

nolefan5311 wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:
IcePack wrote:i dont like the blocks...

the grey blocks are shit and no matter how much I improve them or change them, they will always be grey slabs of sh*t.


This is a defeatist attitude. You know if you really decided to work on them you could get them to the point where you liked them. But you don't like them, so you don't want to work on them.

It is not a defeatist attitude. And no matter what you do to them, they will always be out of scale at this size. Also, if I was unwilling to work on them, why have I done all this over the last few days. You are sell me short their nole.You could make them the best looking blobs of grey ever and even then they would be out of scale. They are bloody huge and up to recently have not been a problem for anyone. We went through this map piece by piece including the impassables and adding the small rocks. There just has to be a time when radical overhauls have to be said no to. RB0 himself looked at the mock up last time and said it looked bad, this is just the same but with a few features on and made square.
They look much more intentional, as if the creators of the maze chiseled them and then intentionally put them there to make the slaves life more difficult. It looks like a maze, or a labyrinth.

Thats the problem though, like this it does not look like a maze at all. RB0 posted a decent maze and that is what a maze should be like. This is not a maze.
One option is not for each cell grid to be an individual block, but a grouping of them (i.e., you remove the borders of them on the inside of the maps blocks, if you know what I mean).

I know what you mean and will give that a go, but I still think it will look like sh*t.
I'm going to be nitpicky about the this, but the stones around the outside just don't really look good. Rock/stones don't have those features, even after they've been dug out

Does not matter, stone/rock comes in all types of formations. It could easily be passed of as a lava flow that has cooled or an out cropping that has been weathered after centuries. Either way, it makes not difference.
The brown ground layer that the minotaur is standing on is a bit confusing. it almost looks like an impassable.

Will look into it.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Square blocks/walls page 18

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:36 am

koontz1973 wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:
IcePack wrote:i dont like the blocks...

the grey blocks are shit and no matter how much I improve them or change them, they will always be grey slabs of sh*t.


This is a defeatist attitude. You know if you really decided to work on them you could get them to the point where you liked them. But you don't like them, so you don't want to work on them.

It is not a defeatist attitude. And no matter what you do to them, they will always be out of scale at this size. You could make them the best looking blobs of grey ever and even then they would be out of scale. They are bloody huge and up to recently have not been a problem for anyone. We went through this map piece by piece including the impassables and adding the small rocks. There just has to be a time when radical overhauls have to be said no to. RB0 himself looked at the mock up last time and said it looked bad, this is just the same but with a few features on and made square.


You can say no to them, that's fine. I'm not sure how likely the map is to get a stamp if you say no, but it's your map. And just to be clear, this map has not been subject to intense graphics scrutiny prior to this phase, and that's what it's under right now.

koontz1973 wrote:
They look much more intentional, as if the creators of the maze chiseled them and then intentionally put them there to make the slaves life more difficult. It looks like a maze, or a labyrinth.

Thats the problem though, like this it does not look like a maze at all. RB0 posted a decent maze and that is what a maze should be like. This is not a maze.


A labyrinth is a maze. You can't have a perfect maze because it wouldn't pass GP, but as is,
for all intents and purposes, it's a maze. Each player starts from a different location and they all race to the center with the aim of getting there first.

koontz1973 wrote:
I'm going to be nitpicky about the this, but the stones around the outside just don't really look good. Rock/stones don't have those features, even after they've been dug out

Does not matter, stone/rock comes in all types of formations. It could easily be passed of as a lava flow that has cooled or an out cropping that has been weathered after centuries. Either way, it makes not difference.


If you feel this is best, then so be it. Just as is I don't think it looks good.

Edited to add I don't like how those look unless you were to play around with them some.
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Even more walls. page 19

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:08 am

You can say no to them, that's fine. I'm not sure how likely the map is to get a stamp if you say no, but it's your map. And just to be clear, this map has not been subject to intense graphics scrutiny prior to this phase, and that's what it's under right now.

So if a map maker says he does not like the way his map is being pushed towards, then it does not get a stamp? I am all for experimenting with new things but to say that one person has that much power over everyone else in the foundry is a bit OTT. Here is a couple of the early versions with the same type of blocks as now. No one liked them and got me to change them to this, now I am being made to go back to this.
Click image to enlarge.
image

Click image to enlarge.
image


And yes, this map has been under scrutiny graphically. Since the first time I posted it, it has had scrutiny. I remember making lots of the icons different, legend has gone through lots of changes. Not one part of this map has stayed the same from the start.

Do not make me out to be the bad guy here or even as a trouble maker, when have I ever said no to anyone when they have asked. You say this is better, I disagree. RB0 wanted this to see and I gave it to him, you wanted the tops done differently, I did it. How am I now the bad guy in all this?
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Even more walls. page 19

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:50 am

koontz1973 wrote:
You can say no to them, that's fine. I'm not sure how likely the map is to get a stamp if you say no, but it's your map. And just to be clear, this map has not been subject to intense graphics scrutiny prior to this phase, and that's what it's under right now.

So if a map maker says he does not like the way his map is being pushed towards, then it does not get a stamp? I am all for experimenting with new things but to say that one person has that much power over everyone else in the foundry is a bit OTT. Here is a couple of the early versions with the same type of blocks as now. No one liked them and got me to change them to this, now I am being made to go back to this.


I don't remember seeing that honestly, but I don't think it should have ever changed from that (the second one specifically). Much more crisp. I'm not sure who told you to change it to what you have now, but I like it a lot more. Again, I'm a gameplay guy, not a graphics guy...if isaiah or RB don't like it or think you're better off going a different route, then you'd be better off listening to them, but it just looks more "finished" to me.

koontz1973 wrote:And yes, this map has been under scrutiny graphically. Since the first time I posted it, it has had scrutiny. I remember making lots of the icons different, legend has gone through lots of changes. Not one part of this map has stayed the same from the start.

Do not make me out to be the bad guy here or even as a trouble maker, when have I ever said no to anyone when they have asked. You say this is better, I disagree. RB0 wanted this to see and I gave it to him, you wanted the tops done differently, I did it. How am I now the bad guy in all this?


I'm not making you out to be a troublemaker or the bad guy. I just don't want to see what happened to Jakarta happen to this map...get all the way to FF and the community has a sort of backlash against the graphics of the map and then you have to completely redo it. Might as well get it all taken care of now.

And I agree that it has gone under scrutiny previously, but a lot of the stuff you mentioned was gameplay related, and even then, you had issues with some of the grammatical suggestions I gave you. But you're going for the graphics stamp now. Scrutiny is going to be more intense...you know this. Sorry if I've come across as anything other than constructive...perhaps my frustration at things is showing itself in this thread.

And just a question...what about the second version isn't better than what you have?
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Even more walls. page 19

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:08 pm

And just a question...what about the second version isn't better than what you have?

No, the second one is total rubbish. It just looks fake.
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Even more walls. page 19

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:16 pm

Well, I'm not going to convince you of anything, so I will let the Graphics CA's do their job :)
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Even more walls. page 19

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:35 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:Well, I'm not going to convince you of anything, so I will let the Graphics CA's do their job :)

Ye of little faith, getting it done now and then we can all decide on which one goes forward. But this is a very large fix and will take time. It is not just rocks bit a lot of the elements that sit next to them that need re doing. Give me time.
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Even more walls. page 19

Postby IcePack on Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:28 pm

What happened to the original rock? I haven't been here for awhile.
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Even more walls. page 19

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:46 pm

IcePack wrote:What happened to the original rock? I haven't been here for awhile.

It is still there, I am just doing a blocky version and then will get people to decide on which is best.
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Even more walls. page 19

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:28 am

Here are the two versions of the map. The top one is the one with the rounded rocks and the second one is the one asked for by RedBaron0. I have set up a poll which I will keep open for one week and then after that is done with, the winner will be the one to go forward.
Original - rounded rock.
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new - square Blocks
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Poll on rock type. page 19

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:39 am

Personally, I prefer the second one. But this your map so really you should choose which one and go with it. It is nothing to stop it from getting stamped.
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Poll on rock type. page 19

Postby IcePack on Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:33 am

The original, by far
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Poll on rock type. page 19

Postby cairnswk on Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:04 pm

i'm going original. it gives the map character. not only that, you've changed some of the elements.
the square version looks far too clinical. :)
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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Poll on rock type. page 19

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:32 am

I like the idea of the squares, if the squares looked a little more like the big blocks in the original.


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Re: Labyrinth [14/9] Poll on rock type. page 19

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:30 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I like the idea of the squares, if the squares looked a little more like the big blocks in the original.


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Do you mean one of the first drafts or the test one I did for RB0 a page or so back.
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