The Great Presidential Debate

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Re: Debate!

Postby thegreekdog on Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:35 pm

tzor wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:Furthermore, if you are in a state such as New York, where polling shows that the president has a commanding lead over Romney, a vote for Mitt Romney would be just as wasted as a vote for Gary Johnson.


That depends. But even then, unless you are planning to go jump off the line for the other elections and vote for Gary/republicans for everything else your vote can have a coattail effect. There are several congressional races that are very close and can easily cause the Democrat to fall. NY1 is my area and the Democratic Candidate Tim Bishop is on the ropes. His victory was only by a hundred votes back in 2010.

Senator Gillibrand has a strong contender in Long. She can't fall back on her gender because her opponent is also a woman.

So it's absolutely vital that the Republican base gets their bottoms off of the chairs and goes to vote this year, even in NY.

Besides, I'm still hoping that this whole Big Gulp Revolution is going to turn NY Red this year.


I understand what you're saying. I'm saying we shouldn't limit ourselves to two parties in determining who we vote for. What influences your decision on who to vote for? Here's a partial list:

(1) The most charismatic person.
(2) The person that most conforms to your points of view.
(3) The political party of which you are a member.
(4) The person that is least like the person that you dislike.
(5) The person who you think will win.

So, my youngest sister voted for Obama in 2008 because it was her first election and because of (1) and (5). My brother and I will vote for Gary Johnson because of (2) and (3). My parents will vote for Mitt Romney because of (4). I think a lot of people vote for someone based on (4). Far be it for me to tell someone why they should vote, but I think (4) is a terrible reason to vote for someone. And that seems to be how a lot of people vote; for evidence, just look at Exhibit A (Phatscotty) and Exhibit B (political races which focus on negative things about candidates, rather than the candidates' plans themselves).
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Re: Debate!

Postby tzor on Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:01 pm

I'll be the first to admit, I'm getting old. I'm getting immune to political BS, from any party.

(1) Charisma is nice but only a modicum is needed. Any more turns the person into a self admiring twit who would do anything to remain popular. No way.

(2) Conforming to my point of view is important. But as a criteria other factors can trump it. This is especially true when you get to positions like POTUS.

(3) There are some people in my own party I am not particularly fond of. (I generally am not fond of those in the other party to a greater extent, however.)

(4) It's odd. The people I dislike are either flat out crooks (the previous supervisor of my town whose family was in the carting business was constantly making deals with sand miners to illegally cart sand in violation of all sorts of environmental laws ... would you believe he was a "Democrat?") or just flat old incompitent (the current congressman was previously the head of a college, while he used his position to hire his family he ran the college to the ground and as a result the college is no more). People who I am confident will "get the job done" will get my vote.

(5) Well that's silly. If I think he will win then my lone vote isn't going to do anything. It's whether or not I think he CAN win. That's not particulary easy to determine.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:35 pm

Hey......

Remember, right before the USA credit rating got downgraded for the first time in history, when Joe Biden said this?

"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:27 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Hey......

Remember, right before the USA credit rating got downgraded for the first time in history, when Joe Biden said this?




Well, you see, PS. When the government spends money, it creates jobs, which puts money in people's pockets. This money is spent on goods and services, and this gets the economy going. Couple that with printing money to lower interest rates, and you'll see that this economy has been booming after the recession ended in 2009.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Woodruff on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:06 pm

How come the Vice Presidential candidates get to sit? What's up with that?
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:41 pm

I'm about 20 minutes in (queued up on the trusty old DVR) and Biden is pretty much taking Ryan to school. Ryan needs to start calling him out where he can.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:43 pm

Biden is gettin his ass whooped! All he has done is sit there and look stupid, smiling and laughing, as if his only tactic is to make it sound like the Tea Party genius next to him is a 3rd grader....

I think this is the knockout blow that puts Romney over the top
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Woodruff on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:51 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Biden is gettin his ass whooped! All he has done is sit there and look stupid, smiling and laughing, as if his only tactic is to make it sound like the Tea Party genius next to him is a 3rd grader....

I think this is the knockout blow that puts Romney over the top


Somehow, I don't find you a credible source.

I think it's been a good debate. And one thing I'll say for both of these guys is that they both seem FAR MORE PERSONABLE than either Obama or Romney did.

I think that to this point, Biden is doing better, but I don't think Ryan has done badly either.

The one area that Biden has really pissed me off, though, is that he KEEPS FUCKING INTERRUPTING! Stop that shit, Joe Biden. f*ck, man. It's disrespectful.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:53 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:I'm about 20 minutes in (queued up on the trusty old DVR) and Biden is pretty much taking Ryan to school. Ryan needs to start calling him out where he can.


what are some of the strongest points Biden made?
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:01 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I'm about 20 minutes in (queued up on the trusty old DVR) and Biden is pretty much taking Ryan to school. Ryan needs to start calling him out where he can.


what are some of the strongest points Biden made?


That he is willing to call out Ryan and Ryan sits back and takes it.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:04 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I'm about 20 minutes in (queued up on the trusty old DVR) and Biden is pretty much taking Ryan to school. Ryan needs to start calling him out where he can.


what are some of the strongest points Biden made?


That he is willing to call out Ryan and Ryan sits back and takes it.


so just the overall posturing and being more aggressive?

My favorite Biden moment is when he blamed the recession on the war in Iraq, but seems to think that real estate had nothing to do with it....

Very dishonest
Last edited by Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:06 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I'm about 20 minutes in (queued up on the trusty old DVR) and Biden is pretty much taking Ryan to school. Ryan needs to start calling him out where he can.


what are some of the strongest points Biden made?


That he is willing to call out Ryan and Ryan sits back and takes it.


so just the overall posturing and being more aggressive?


I would have said yes but I'm 37 minutes into it now and Biden is coming across as more of a douche by sitting there chuckling at every answer Ryan gives.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:07 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I'm about 20 minutes in (queued up on the trusty old DVR) and Biden is pretty much taking Ryan to school. Ryan needs to start calling him out where he can.


what are some of the strongest points Biden made?


That he is willing to call out Ryan and Ryan sits back and takes it.


so just the overall posturing and being more aggressive?


I would have said yes but I'm 37 minutes into it now and Biden is coming across as more of a douche by sitting there chuckling at every answer Ryan gives.


Yup! That is what I have been noticing! But I also hear you in that many times I wish Ryan would have had a better comeback to Biden, like the example I edited into the previous post, but not in time
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:08 pm

Woodruff wrote:The one area that Biden has really pissed me off, though, is that he KEEPS FUCKING INTERRUPTING! Stop that shit, Joe Biden. f*ck, man. It's disrespectful.



This +10
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby redhedge47 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:08 pm

its more that Biden is making a complete fool of himself, and the mod has a clear bias and I really am starting to hate joe biden
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Woodruff on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:08 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Very dishonest


But you seemed to like that with Romney in the Presidential debate...
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Nobunaga on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:14 pm

... I like Biden more now than I ever have.

... I hate his party's policies, but this guy pushes hard. He grabbed the reigns and is driving the wagon. Ryan's sitting in the back, trying to get an argument in.

... So he's a bit thick, and very gaff-prone... big deal. I can honestly say that I respect this man. A bit of a revelation.

...
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Nobunaga on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:18 pm

... He's getting beaten up a little on twitter for laughing all the time...

... But it seems to be working for him.

... Ryan needs to grow a pair here. Seriously.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82313.html
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:23 pm

redhedge47 wrote:its more that Biden is making a complete fool of himself, and the mod has a clear bias and I really am starting to hate joe biden


Did you know Obama was at the moderators wedding?
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Woodruff on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:28 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
redhedge47 wrote:its more that Biden is making a complete fool of himself, and the mod has a clear bias and I really am starting to hate joe biden


Did you know Obama was at the moderators wedding?


And now we have the new "SOROS!!!!". The moderator hasn't been particularly biased, no. Anyone seeing much of a bias here is blinded by their own irrationality.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:32 pm

God Bless you Paul Ryan
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby patrickaa317 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:34 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
redhedge47 wrote:its more that Biden is making a complete fool of himself, and the mod has a clear bias and I really am starting to hate joe biden


Did you know Obama was at the moderators wedding?


And now we have the new "SOROS!!!!". The moderator hasn't been particularly biased, no. Anyone seeing much of a bias here is blinded by their own irrationality.


In all fairness, there have to be at least 1,000 people that could moderate where none of the four candidates attended their wedding.

However, I will agree that she is being fairly unbiased.

Ryan really needs to tell Biden to stop laughing, shut up, and wait his turn.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Woodruff on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:35 pm

Damn VP Debate...I was apparently missing a hell of a baseball game!
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:36 pm

Who do you guys think won?

+1 for Paul Ryan here

Noting a lot of Biden love in the interverse
"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby MegaProphet on Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:02 pm

I liked this debate much better than the last. I think the moderator did a good job keeping them on topic and asked some good questions. I feel I understand the candidates positions better. I also quite enjoyed Biden's Jim Halpert moments.

Why isn't this a separate thread? It'd make it easier to navigate
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