The Great Presidential Debate

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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Night Strike on Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:40 pm

Some of my comments from the debate:

How does a new governmental policy show that you care for people?

How do you cut over payments in Medicare when they're currently underpaid?

I didn't know capital gains was a loophole.

During a 90 minute debate, Joe Biden made 96 interruptions while Paul Ryan had only 6.

And the perfect comment that needs used as the intro to a commercial was when Biden said "I always mean what I say".
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Phatscotty on Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:46 pm

:lol: Is it possible for Biden to look any more like he is completely full of shit? :lol:

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Last edited by Phatscotty on Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:18 am

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -biden-44/

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Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Ray Rider on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:59 am

It was good, hard fought debate; the moderator did an excellent job and both candidates held their ground without giving up an inch. Biden at times appeared like an arrogant intimidator who wasn't serious about important issues, especially when he was constantly laughing as if the whole thing was a joke; however he also appeared to be a strong, able, experienced leader (although obviously I disagree with him on the majority of his positions). Ryan at times appeared to struggle with clearly explaining his arguments and at times seemed to avoid going into sufficient detail on policy issues (such as where they would make up for the 20% tax cut); however he also appeared to be a confident, knowledgeable leader with an honest character.

I doubt that this debate will change anyone's minds about who they're voting for. I still hold that if I were an American, I'd vote 3rd party (Gary Johnson). Obama has been a total failure over the last 4 years but Romney still doesn't offer substantial change...and even if you believed in the policies he offers, he waffles on his positions so much that you can't guarantee that he'll follow through on them anyway. At a time like this, a third party offering a different, new perspective on the serious problems currently facing the US is what is needed.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby oVo on Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:42 am

Phatscotty wrote:Who do you guys think won?

Biden mopped the floor with him... it wasn't about being assertive or rude,
the facts were behind Joe even with his disconcerting smile.
Eddie Munster is a numbers kind of guy and he failed to produce
them to make his point, with the exception of "The Five Things"
a Republican White House intends to do to make it fix things...
whatever that means. It's a secret plan that has yet to be revealed.

BUT... the centrifuges in Iran are "spinning faster now."

In the first debate Romney claimed he would create 9,000,000 new jobs
and tonight Ryan upped the ante to 12,000,000.

Statements on abortion/contraception and Supreme Court/Roe v Wade.
Give the Government control over your choices or lack of them,
even though it should not be a religious based decision?
Not all Americans share the GOPs beliefs.

IF I vote for Romney will he foot the bill for their college education?
Mitt spent $45 million of his own money in his failed Presidential bid
against Bush. Since he has much more in his offshore accounts than
Obama, Biden and Ryan combined I expect him to be generous with
his donations to charities.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Nobunaga on Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:19 am

... I thought Raddatz did a good job as moderator, in spite of the potential for bias (the whole wedding thing with Obama). That was a happy surprise.

... Biden is getting beaten up today, for what is being described as childish rudeness and interruption.

... I liked him in the debate... Maybe I'm not normal...

... Anyway, it looks like Romney got a small bump out of this thing.

...
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Night Strike on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:23 am

oVo wrote:Biden mopped the floor with him... it wasn't about being assertive or rude,
the facts were behind Joe even with his disconcerting smile.


Do your "facts" include his statement saying more security was never requested in Benghazi?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:54 am

"Biden's teeth are so white they're voting for Romney."
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:57 am

Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

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Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:20 am

Bones2484 wrote:"Biden's teeth are so white they're voting for Romney."


What? <laughing> Where did that come from?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:24 am

Woodruff wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:"Biden's teeth are so white they're voting for Romney."


What? <laughing> Where did that come from?


http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/tech/soci ... ?hpt=hp_t1
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:29 am

Bones2484 wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:"Biden's teeth are so white they're voting for Romney."


What? <laughing> Where did that come from?


http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/tech/soci ... ?hpt=hp_t1


Oh damn, that was great.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby Woodruff on Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:03 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Who do you guys think won?

+1 for Paul Ryan here


If Ryan had a stroke and shit his pants on stage, you would hail it as a rare glimpse into the vulnerable, sensitive soul of Paul Ryan.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Symmetry on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:29 pm

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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:06 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

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Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."


What you refer to as the "important part" is what I refer to as "the excuse" :twisted:

btw, have you seen the negative impact Biden had on female voters? They are running for their lives! :twisted: :twisted:
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby MeDeFe on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:34 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

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Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."


What you refer to as the "important part" is what I refer to as "the excuse" :twisted:

btw, have you seen the negative impact Biden had on female voters? They are running for their lives! :twisted: :twisted:

Does that mean it's also just an excuse when you say that democrats are over-represented in polls that ask whether people are more likely to vote for Romney or Obama?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:44 pm

MeDeFe wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Image

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."


What you refer to as the "important part" is what I refer to as "the excuse" :twisted:

btw, have you seen the negative impact Biden had on female voters? They are running for their lives! :twisted: :twisted:

Does that mean it's also just an excuse when you say that democrats are over-represented in polls that ask whether people are more likely to vote for Romney or Obama?


I would be glad to answer. Would you mind making the conversion first of the original statement from bones. Specifically the "1/3 of people who were Republicans compared to a mere 31% being Democrats"

How does that look when the 1/3 is turned into numbers? Just need to be clear on the premise before I continue
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:47 pm

Phatscotty wrote:I would be glad to answer. Would you mind making the conversion first of the original statement from bones. Specifically the "1/3 of people who were Republicans compared to a mere 31% being Democrats"

How does that look when the 1/3 is turned into numbers?


What the hell are you talking about? 33% vs 31%, 48% vs 44%. You don't see any correlation between very close numbers?

Also, why did you conveniently skip over the most important part of my post that I clearly called attention to? The one that said undecideds were 50%-31% for Biden. Guess it's silly of me to think it's more important at this stage of the election to focus on the voters who didn't make up their minds months ago.

But then again, that metric doesn't fit the point you were trying to prove.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby MegaProphet on Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:49 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
MeDeFe wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/11/cnn-poll-on-debate-winner-ryan-48-biden-44/

Image

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


You quoted the non-important part of that poll. Specifically the one that said more republicans were polled: "One-third of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, with 31% identifying themselves as Democrats"

I find this stat from the same article you linked MUCH more interesting:
"A CBS News poll of uncommitted voters who watched the debate gave Biden the edge over Ryan by a 50%-31% margin. Uncommitted voters made up roughly ten percent or less of the debate audience."


What you refer to as the "important part" is what I refer to as "the excuse" :twisted:

btw, have you seen the negative impact Biden had on female voters? They are running for their lives! :twisted: :twisted:

Does that mean it's also just an excuse when you say that democrats are over-represented in polls that ask whether people are more likely to vote for Romney or Obama?


I would be glad to answer. Would you mind making the conversion first of the original statement from bones. Specifically the "1/3 of people who were Republicans compared to a mere 31% being Democrats"

How does that look when the 1/3 is turned into numbers? Just need to be clear on the premise before I continue

1/3 is a number, right?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby luns101 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:24 pm

Most of the substance in this debate was trivialized or overshadowed by the stupid, condescending antics by Biden. Well that, and the constant interrupting. I thought Biden burned Ryan pretty well over requests for stimulus $$, and Ryan looked more competent on Afghanistan.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:36 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:I would be glad to answer. Would you mind making the conversion first of the original statement from bones. Specifically the "1/3 of people who were Republicans compared to a mere 31% being Democrats"

How does that look when the 1/3 is turned into numbers?


What the hell are you talking about? 33% vs 31%, 48% vs 44%. You don't see any correlation between very close numbers?

Also, why did you conveniently skip over the most important part of my post that I clearly called attention to? The one that said undecideds were 50%-31% for Biden. Guess it's silly of me to think it's more important at this stage of the election to focus on the voters who didn't make up their minds months ago.

But then again, that metric doesn't fit the point you were trying to prove.


I didn't skip it. Something was already posted about it

Half of all debate watchers questioned in the poll said the showdown didn't make them more likely to vote for either of the candidates' bosses, 28% said the debate made them more likely to vote for Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and 21% said the faceoff made them more likely to vote to re-elect President Barack Obama.


I just think it's silly to point out that the crowd was somehow lopsided or warped based on a 33% R - 31% Dem. Sure, there is a 2% difference, but why is it worth pointing out? That seems to be about as good as it will get, and if you really want to split hairs, then it could also mean Republicans were WAY under-represented and Democrats over, since 42% of Americans view themselves as Conservative, 35% moderate, and only 20% Liberal. And that does not even mention the implication that was attempted by putting "1/3" and "31%" in the same sentence. That is to make the gap between 33% and 31% seem bigger than it is, and that is what motivated my response.

The crowd we are talking about had over 50% more Democrats in it than America does, on scale (31% in crowd, 20% nationally).

Oh yeah, and this is all with the moderator being a firm liberal, Obama even attended her wedding.
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:54 pm

oVo wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Who do you guys think won?

Biden mopped the floor with him... it wasn't about being assertive or rude,
the facts were behind Joe even with his disconcerting smile.
Eddie Munster is a numbers kind of guy and he failed to produce
them to make his point, with the exception of "The Five Things"
a Republican White House intends to do to make it fix things...
whatever that means. It's a secret plan that has yet to be revealed.

BUT... the centrifuges in Iran are "spinning faster now."

In the first debate Romney claimed he would create 9,000,000 new jobs
and tonight Ryan upped the ante to 12,000,000.

Statements on abortion/contraception and Supreme Court/Roe v Wade.
Give the Government control over your choices or lack of them,
even though it should not be a religious based decision?
Not all Americans share the GOPs beliefs.

IF I vote for Romney will he foot the bill for their college education?
Mitt spent $45 million of his own money in his failed Presidential bid
against Bush. Since he has much more in his offshore accounts than
Obama, Biden and Ryan combined I expect him to be generous with
his donations to charities.


I just don't understand this kind of thing. Why would you focus on one group's lies and not the other group's lies? For example, Joe Biden indicated that he did not vote for either war, when he did. The vice president also indicated the $5 trillion tax cut in the Romney plan, which is completely misleading.

I thought Biden won the debate because he was way more assertive and in control. Biden had better one-liners. Ryan is too much of a figures guy. I also didn't like Ryan's cadence for some reason. He sounded like he was a 10 year old. The moderating was great.
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:59 pm

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"I want you to remember that, to remind you to stay out of my way. In all the years to come, in all your most private moments, I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you."
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Re: The Great Vice Presidential Debate!

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:00 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
I just don't understand this kind of thing. Why would you focus on one group's lies and not the other group's lies? For example, Joe Biden indicated that he did not vote for either war, when he did. The vice president also indicated the $5 trillion tax cut in the Romney plan, which is completely misleading.

I thought Biden won the debate because he was way more assertive and in control. Biden had better one-liners. Ryan is too much of a figures guy. I also didn't like Ryan's cadence for some reason. He sounded like he was a 10 year old. The moderating was great.


I'm not speaking ill of you per say, but when we've been reduced to discussing the relative quality of a debate in terms of rhetoric or one-sided criticism, then... what does that indicate about these viewers?
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Re: Vice Presidential Debate: Ryan 48% Biden 44% (CNN)

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:07 pm

If the debate were an asshole contest, then yes, Biden mopped the floor with Ryan. However, it was a debate, and part of what some call "mopping the floor" was due to Ryan respecting the office of VP, and sure some was due to inexperience in prime-time debates. But Ryan did not screw up, while Biden was lying out of his ass and acting like a 10 year old.

The only reason true lefties think Biden won the debate was because Biden turned nasty, and they identify with that. It's just like here in the forum. Conservatives win the argument on the substance and ideas and articulation, and Liberals win the argument because they bashed the hardest.
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