Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

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Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:20 am

Hi Everyone,

Please forgive me if this topic has been covered. I looked but didn't find anything. If it has, please direct me.
So I was pondering today if it has ever been discovered that someone has taken turns for multiple people during a clan war without announcement and if there are any routine checks for this type of thing? Because technically speaking, since there is no limit on how many people can share passwords, someone could potentially be taking turns for more than one or even all of the players in a game and would most likely never be checked for IP because who could even tell what looked suspicious? If this sort of thing was going on unchecked you would only really need one skilled person in a clan to carry it. I realize it's not the most important of questions but shouldn't there be some sort of random check to avoid this kind of abuse? Thoughts? Answers?
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby agentcom on Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:16 pm

Oh boy, this could get interesting ...
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby NoSurvivors on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:48 pm

agentcom wrote:Oh boy, this could get interesting ...


+1.. but really, to cover one point.. dont you need just one person who is skilled and 1-3 people who will listen to win a team game? lol
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:29 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:
agentcom wrote:Oh boy, this could get interesting ...


+1.. but really, to cover one point.. dont you need just one person who is skilled and 1-3 people who will listen to win a team game? lol


Theoretically speaking I completely agree but it's the listening part that tends to get sticky lol. There's definitely something to be said for the increased focus gained in having complete control over all the pieces.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Evil Semp on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:20 pm

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174462&hilit=account+sitting+abuse

I know this was probably the biggest account sitting cases and I believe it was during a clan war.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby agentcom on Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:05 am

Evil Semp wrote:http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174462&hilit=account+sitting+abuse

I know this was probably the biggest account sitting cases and I believe it was during a clan war.


I know the first game listed wasn't a clan war, but a tourney played by a team from one clan. I remember that well because I was on the other side of that one. But there were some clan games in the mix. Also, there was another sitting case that happened shortly after this one that I think got a fair amount of attention.

If you want to find the really contentious C&A cases, go do a search in C&A for "account sitting" and just look through the locked threads.

NoSurvivors wrote:
agentcom wrote:Oh boy, this could get interesting ...


+1.. but really, to cover one point.. dont you need just one person who is skilled and 1-3 people who will listen to win a team game? lol


Generally, yes. But that one player can't possibly think of all the contingencies that will arise over the course of the turn, so it's much better if the actual players can think on their feet and strategize. Also, unless that one player is REALLY good, then the other players usually can add to the discussion by pointing out things that are missed.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:38 pm

Evil Semp wrote:http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174462&hilit=account+sitting+abuse

I know this was probably the biggest account sitting cases and I believe it was during a clan war.


Wow, thanks ES, a very interesting read so far and I've got lots to go! I found myself asking if all the effort of covering tracks, etc., worth it when they could have just played by the rules and communicated with each other. The whole flag switching thing blew my mind tbh. However this sort of evidence just increases my paranoia. Thanks again ES, I think.... :P
Last edited by Funkyterrance on Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby agentcom on Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:41 pm

There's another nice long one that followed right on the heals of that one. I forget who was involved however.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:06 pm

agentcom wrote:There's another nice long one that followed right on the heals of that one. I forget who was involved however.


Blitzaholic?
I've got a lot to read but If you happen to come across links plz post em. :D
CC rogue scholarship, here I come!
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby agentcom on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:09 pm

Nah, I think blitz was quite a time before the one you're reading.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:15 am

Ok so my question at this point is how can someone get some periodic IP checks in a game that smells fishy without outright accusing anyone? I don't think this is unreasonable. I would have no objection with it being done to me.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Bones2484 on Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:23 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
agentcom wrote:There's another nice long one that followed right on the heals of that one. I forget who was involved however.


Blitzaholic?
I've got a lot to read but If you happen to come across links plz post em. :D
CC rogue scholarship, here I come!


This was the first major case that preceded the CoF case and lead to more strict sitting:
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=145859

It's still the most visited C&A thread of all time by over 1000 views!
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Evil Semp on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:36 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:Ok so my question at this point is how can someone get some periodic IP checks in a game that smells fishy without outright accusing anyone? I don't think this is unreasonable. I would have no objection with it being done to me.


I get requests via PM. I don't mind doing checks as long as the requester has reasonable suspicion.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby greenoaks on Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:29 am

Funkyterrance wrote:Ok so my question at this point is how can someone get some periodic IP checks in a game that smells fishy without outright accusing anyone? I don't think this is unreasonable. I would have no objection with it being done to me.


Evil Semp wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:Ok so my question at this point is how can someone get some periodic IP checks in a game that smells fishy without outright accusing anyone? I don't think this is unreasonable. I would have no objection with it being done to me.


I get requests via PM. I don't mind doing checks as long as the requester has reasonable suspicion.


i have used this method several times on players who have joined my tournaments that i think are one and the same. ES has always looked into things promptly and discreetly.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby agentcom on Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:58 am

For all the multis that are busted by C&A, there are a fair share that are busted because of reports by TO's like greenoaks, other users and even other mods point out suspicious behavior quite often. I'm sure it's not a 100% success rate, but one thing that I've been impressed with as a moderator is how much effort goes in trying to prevent multiple accounts.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby SirSebstar on Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:30 am

i think the OP is talking about illigal account sharing and not so much about multies.
I have not had much experience with it, so i'll refer to Evil Semp who takes requests via PM.

I think the hunters are reluctant to divulge their specific methods, but i remember a few C&A cases where the verdict was not based on the public evidence, so i have to assume they have other ways of checking up on things.

Personally i would like a new sitter tool that whould be part of a few rulechanges, like you are not to get into anybody else's account for any reason, but coupled to a sitter tool designed to log who is doing what. And this being publicly mentioned in the gameslog...

To get back on the op's question. Like with multies, there are automated tools. I do not know if they also automaticly check for accountsitting, but at the very least aside from automated tools they react to personal requests, via pm and or forum. So if you see something wierd, you could ask the hunters to take a look at it.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:04 am

Thanks for all the information guys, I always thought that you had to publicly accuse someone of this sort of thing. I am also very impressed with the amount of work that is done to prevent multi abuse since its the most blatant form of cheating imho. It's great to know those people are out there fighting the good fight.
But yeah, as SirSebstar pointed out I am referring in this case to account sharing/sitting when the player is fully capable of taking the turn for themselves. My ultimate wish regarding this would be a simple random system that checked IP to make sure the people who were supposed to be taking their turns actually were. I feel that just the chance of being busted on something like this would greatly deter any abuse in this area. I have had instances where I seemed to smell something fishy but to make an issue out of it would have the potential to make me look paranoid and/or waste people's time. I realize that the mods are not here to reply to all suspicions at my beck and call. ;)
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby SirSebstar on Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:13 am

I think if you coupled it with the aforementioned rules change that you should never enter anothers account for any reason, then an ip checker would be handy. Ofcourse, many people still use proxy's and or busy ip's like from schools and such.
It is like secret alliances. Getting caught there if you do it once is very hard. But generally those that cheat, do so more often, and by doing so create a pattern to follow.
even if it takes a while, the hunters will get them arses banned.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Foxglove on Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:28 pm

Funkyterrance wrote: My ultimate wish regarding this would be a simple random system that checked IP to make sure the people who were supposed to be taking their turns actually were.


This is impractical - people legitimately take their turns from a variety of IP addresses. Some players take turns from work and home. Other players travel frequently. Throughout the 5 years I've been on this site I've taken my turns from a wide variety of cities, states, and countries, as have many other people on CC. An IP check like you support above would never work.
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Re: Sitting In During Clan Wars: Who's Who and What's What?

Postby Funkyterrance on Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:49 pm

Foxglove wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote: My ultimate wish regarding this would be a simple random system that checked IP to make sure the people who were supposed to be taking their turns actually were.


This is impractical - people legitimately take their turns from a variety of IP addresses. Some players take turns from work and home. Other players travel frequently. Throughout the 5 years I've been on this site I've taken my turns from a wide variety of cities, states, and countries, as have many other people on CC. An IP check like you support above would never work.


This is not necessarily what I am proposing. If two teammates take turns from the same IP I should think there is something fishy about that. I hate to infringe any anyone's homeland here Foxglove but I do think it warrants investigation.
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