Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

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Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:24 pm

Great in-depth analysis of the voter ID movement from Jane Mayer in the New Yorker.

It's not a short read, but if you're interested in the topic it's here:

THE VOTER-FRAUD MYTH

At the Heritage Foundation, von Spakovsky emphasized that his devotion to safeguarding voter integrity had nothing to do with racial discrimination or partisan gain: “I’m not in this because I’m on a team. I believe in having fair elections, and I would never be willing to do anything that would encourage or allow cheating in an election. My interest is in making sure that the person who people vote for the most wins.”

Yet many Democrats see his cause as a voter-suppression effort in disguise. Thirty-three states have passed some form of voter-I.D. law, the most severe versions of which demand government-issued cards with photographs and expiration dates. A driver’s license typically qualifies, but many students, elderly people, and poor urban residents do not have one.

According to a study by the Brennan Center for Justice, a liberal nonprofit institute at N.Y.U. Law School, eleven per cent of the voting-age population lacks the kind of I.D. cards required by the strictest states. Eighteen per cent of Americans over the age of sixty-five do not have such documentation; among African-Americans the figure is twenty-five per cent. Von Spakovsky criticized the study for focussing not on registered voters but on all Americans who are eligible to vote. He cites rival studies indicating that the number of registered voters without I.D.s is negligible.

The vast majority of the lawmakers who have pushed for voter I.D.s have been Republicans. As Bill Clinton has put it, “This is not rocket science. They are trying to make the 2012 electorate look more like the 2010 electorate”—when many young and minority voters stayed home—“than the 2008 electorate.” Clinton said that the “effort to limit the franchise” was the most determined “since we got rid of the poll tax and all the other Jim Crow burdens on voting.”
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:46 pm

Or, alternatively, there's no conspiracy, no black helicopters, no New World Order operating behind the scenes, no shadowy plot; it's a simple policy disagreement.

Jimmy Carter wrote:Supporters of this policy argue that if voters identify themselves before voting, election fraud will be reduced. Opponents of an ID requirement fear it will disenfranchise voters, especially the poor, members of minority groups and the elderly, who are less likely than other voters to have suitable identification. The debate is polarized because most of the proponents are Republicans and most of the opponents are Democrats.

In 2005, we led a bipartisan Commission on Federal Election Reform and concluded that both parties' concerns were legitimate — a free and fair election requires both ballot security and full access to voting.

http://www.cartercenter.org/news/editor ... er_id.html


Usually the simplest explanation is the right one. But not the most exciting.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:19 pm

I'm not sure how that 2005 report relates to the article, but I guess it's interesting. That there is exaggeration on both sides is discussed within the article:

Mainstream election experts say that Spakovsky has had an improbably large impact. Richard L. Hasen, a law professor at the University of California at Irvine, and the author of a recent book, “The Voting Wars,” says, “Before 2000, there were some rumblings about Democratic voter fraud, but it really wasn’t part of the main discourse. But thanks to von Spakovsky and the flame-fanning of a few others, the myth that Democratic voter fraud is common, and that it helps Democrats win elections, has become part of the Republican orthodoxy.”

In December, Reince Priebus, the chairman of the Republican National Committee, wrote, “Election fraud is a real and persistent threat to our electoral system.” He accused Democrats of “standing up for potential fraud—presumably because ending it would disenfranchise at least two of its core constituencies: the deceased and double-voters.”

Hasen believes that Democrats, for their part, have made exaggerated claims about the number of voters who may be disenfranchised by Republican election-security measures. But he regards the conservative alarmists as more successful. “Their job is really done,” Hasen says. “It’s common now to assert that there is a need for voter I.D.s, even without any evidence.”

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012 ... z2ABACRYzd
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby saxitoxin on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:21 pm

Symmetry wrote:I'm not sure how that 2005 report relates to the article


it seems like you are ... see:

Symmetry wrote:That there is exaggeration on both sides is discussed within the article
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Symmetry on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:26 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Symmetry wrote:I'm not sure how that 2005 report relates to the article


it seems like you are ... see:

Symmetry wrote:That there is exaggeration on both sides is discussed within the article


Don't be fatuous Jeffrey.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Ray Rider on Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:35 pm

Symmetry wrote:Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Logic, common sense, and the rest of the civilized world perhaps? We have voter ID laws up here in Canada and it's been working just fine.*


*I'm not necessarily implying that Canada is the embodiment or the essence of logic, common sense, and comprises of the whole of the civilized world, but take away from those sentences what you will...
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:55 am

Ray Rider wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Logic, common sense, and the rest of the civilized world perhaps? We have voter ID laws up here in Canada and it's been working just fine.*


*I'm not necessarily implying that Canada is the embodiment or the essence of logic, common sense, and comprises of the whole of the civilized world, but take away from those sentences what you will...


This must mean that Canadians are racist!
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:49 pm

or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains, and can never even consider that voter ID is just common sense
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:57 pm

Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby notyou2 on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:05 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Ray Rider wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Logic, common sense, and the rest of the civilized world perhaps? We have voter ID laws up here in Canada and it's been working just fine.*


*I'm not necessarily implying that Canada is the embodiment or the essence of logic, common sense, and comprises of the whole of the civilized world, but take away from those sentences what you will...


This must mean that Canadians are racist!


We only hate everyone that is different than us.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:06 pm

Ray Rider wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Logic, common sense, and the rest of the civilized world perhaps? We have voter ID laws up here in Canada and it's been working just fine.*
]

It worked just fine before the ID laws also. The fact that something functions is not, in and of itself, and argument in favour, if the alternative functions just as well.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:10 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his Marxist mother. the "dreams of his (Marxist) father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript. Further molded by Communist Frank Marshall Davis and Marxist Jeremiah Wright at his "Black Liberation Theology of Social Christianity Church" that he was a member of for over 20 years.
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:13 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.

Then why has he spent his entire administration giving handouts to corporations owned by capitalists?

If he's a Marxist, I imagine the Third International (or Fifth, or Twentieth, or whatever we're up to now) would have had him offed as a traitor by now.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:14 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.

Then why has he spent his entire administration giving handouts to corporations owned by capitalists?

If he's a Marxist, I imagine the Third International (or Fifth, or Twentieth, or whatever we're up to now) would have had him offed as a traitor by now.


because he's greedy and a hypocrite?

NAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:14 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.


11% of the words in the preceding post were "Marxist"
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:18 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.


11% of the words in the preceding post were "Marxist"


yes, I know.

Lots of evidence and influences
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:19 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.

Then why has he spent his entire administration giving handouts to corporations owned by capitalists?

If he's a Marxist, I imagine the Third International (or Fifth, or Twentieth, or whatever we're up to now) would have had him offed as a traitor by now.


because he's greedy and a hypocrite?

NAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

That's pretty much a prerequisite for being elected to political office, and applies equally well to politicians of all stripes. Doesn't answer my question.

I'll rephrase: How can you reconcile Obama's alleged Marxism with his total obedience to Wall Street's capitalist demands?
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:21 pm

Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Says the guy who villianizes Obama.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.

Then why has he spent his entire administration giving handouts to corporations owned by capitalists?

If he's a Marxist, I imagine the Third International (or Fifth, or Twentieth, or whatever we're up to now) would have had him offed as a traitor by now.


because he's greedy and a hypocrite?

NAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

That's pretty much a prerequisite for being elected to political office, and applies equally well to politicians of all stripes. Doesn't answer my question.

I'll rephrase: How can you reconcile Obama's alleged Marxism with his total obedience to Wall Street's capitalist demands?


I simply am not naive enough to think that Obama would blow his Marxist load in one shot at the beginning of his first term......but perhaps it is slightly possible that it is for the power and the control, and what it will be in the future (not before re-election)
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his Marxist mother. the "dreams of his (Marxist) father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript. Further molded by Communist Frank Marshall Davis and Marxist Jeremiah Wright at his "Black Liberation Theology of Social Christianity Church" that he was a member of for over 20 years.


You're pretty much proving his point, of course.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.

Then why has he spent his entire administration giving handouts to corporations owned by capitalists?

If he's a Marxist, I imagine the Third International (or Fifth, or Twentieth, or whatever we're up to now) would have had him offed as a traitor by now.


because he's greedy and a hypocrite?
NAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!


No, that's you.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:23 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.


11% of the words in the preceding post were "Marxist"


yes, I know.

Lots of evidence and influences


check this out -

    Scott is a Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
I just dropped even more evidence that, in fact, you're the secret Marxist! In fact, I posted 2 more pieces of evidence than you posted!

*tickle tickle* *Saxi tickles Scotty* :P
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:23 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:or that some people just always need something or someone to blame, a villain, even go so far as to create villains


Image


Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.


11% of the words in the preceding post were "Marxist"


yes, I know.

Lots of evidence and influences


check this out -

    Scott is a Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist Marxist
I just dropped even more evidence that, in fact, you're the secret Marxist! In fact, I posted 2 more pieces of evidence than you posted!

*tickle tickle* *Saxi tickles Scotty* :P


MARX OFF!!!
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby Woodruff on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:24 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
Born a Marxist, raised a Marxist, educated a Marxist, worshipped a Marxist....

Obama as Marxist villain was created, but not by me or Republicans or Libertarians or anyone in the 21st century, but Obama was created as a Marxist by his mother. the "dreams of his father", and his Marxist Grandfather, whos FBI files are also "sealed", just like Obama's college transcript.

Then why has he spent his entire administration giving handouts to corporations owned by capitalists?

If he's a Marxist, I imagine the Third International (or Fifth, or Twentieth, or whatever we're up to now) would have had him offed as a traitor by now.


because he's greedy and a hypocrite?

NAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

That's pretty much a prerequisite for being elected to political office, and applies equally well to politicians of all stripes. Doesn't answer my question.

I'll rephrase: How can you reconcile Obama's alleged Marxism with his total obedience to Wall Street's capitalist demands?


I simply am not naive enough to think that Obama would blow his Marxist load in one shot at the beginning of his first term......but perhaps it is slightly possible that it is for the power and the control, and what it will be in the future (not before re-election)


Here Phatscotty admits that, once again, he has no basis nor evidence for his claims.
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Re: Who's behind the Voter ID movement?

Postby saxitoxin on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:28 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
MARX OFF!!!


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