WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of money?

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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:27 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Well, you don't need a bunch money to organize a group of people and hang the local landlord. And it doesn't matter if the rich person feels like some god---as long as the outcomes of his decisions are good, and not bad (because I'm a moral consequentialist). A poor person can feel like a god among men if he organizes some mob under him too! Money and lack of money cut both ways, and power and money are not equivalent (which was what john was asserting).


True, you don't need a bunch of money to organize a group of people and hang the local landlord but this is still relatively small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. You get caught, you go to jail without the money for a good lawyer, end of story. I feel that in modern times it takes at least a decent sized nest egg to make a real difference, good or bad. Poor people are generally too busy living hand to mouth to organize anything substantial.


BigBallinStalin wrote:Your question was too narrow because you're trying to figure out if more wealth/power/money enables a greater potential for harm. Yes, in some cases that can be true, but one need not both wealth/money and power to have similar potentialities to cause bad. Furthermore, the same variables (wealth, etc.) can also increase the potentiality for causing good outcomes. This possibility has been overlooked this entire thread (except by me, I think). People seem to think that money and power corrupt, but they forget:

The person's value judgments and the institutions within which they operate matter the most. The variables themselves (money and power) are not the fundamental causes.


I can submit to the idea that some people do indeed tend to go in the direction of good outcomes and,believe it or not, I considered this in my mind but when it comes to this argument I omitted the fact because when met with wealth most people do not. They may not necessarily lean towards evil but they certainly don't seem to lean towards the common good. If anything they tend to lean towards themselves. It's hard to argue that using wealth to increase one's already comfortable position is going to ultimately benefit the common good. Yes it creates a stable economy but not one in which there is any real advancement, more one where the rich become more comfortable and the commoners survive. The opportunity to advance the common good not taken for the sake of one's own greed could be construed as evil.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:02 am

Dukasaur wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:So far, you, tzor, the OP, and PS have all been shown to be false for reasons already stated. If you'd like to address the problems with your (and whoever's arguments which you'll agree with but not support or maybe support or maybe change but not really depending on your time of day), then be my guest.

The OP asked, "why is it said.... blah blah blah" It's pretty clear from the context that when St. Paul wrote those words, he was not referring to money in the sense of "medium of exchange" so all this arguing about whether money or credit saves you time in the marketplace is completely irrelevant.

St. Paul was talking about those whose materialism blinds them to their spiritual development.

St. Paul wrote:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

Of course our public school teachers loved to quote this out of context as an attack on money in general, but you have to keep in mind that most public school teachers are members of virulently socialist public-service unions. Reading the passage in context makes it clear that it is not an attack on wealth, or on trade. It is an attack on materialism so intense that it distracts one from spiritual growth.

But godliness with contentment is great gain.

This is the nub of it. It basically means that there's nothing wrong with being well-off or even wealthy, as long as one's highest goals remain spiritual.

For Paul, of course, "spiritual" meant "Christ-worshipping" but there's no reason to straitjacket yourself into a narrow-minded model of any particular religion. Similar things are said in other religions, and in completely non-religious ethical systems.

For my atheist brethren, here's how Aristotle arrives at much the same conclusion from a secular approach:
Aristotle wrote:But, being a man, one will also need external prosperity; for our nature is not self-sufficient for the purpose of contemplation, but our body also must be healthy and must have food and other attention. Still, we must not think that the man who is to be happy will need many things or great things, merely because he cannot be supremely happy without external goods; for self-sufficiency and action do not involve excess, and we can do noble acts without ruling earth and sea; for even with moderate advantages one can act virtuously (this is manifest enough; for private persons are thought to do worthy acts no less than despots -- indeed even more); and it is enough that we should have so much as that; for the life of the man who is active in accordance with virtue will be happy.
http://www.constitution.org/ari/ethic_10.htm

Basically people complicate their lives with materialistic claptrap and forget that the point of life is self-improvement, and self improvement does not proceed from burying yourself up the the neck with all the putrescent shit that Walmart can excrete from its shelves. I mean, what do you really need? Good food, good beer, a warm place to lay your head, and a decent blowjob every now and then. Beyond that, all is vanity and vexation of the spirit, as the old poem goes.

When I see the retards lining up in the rain because the Iphone 3 is out and some marketing asshole told them they had to have one or die, I just want to run up to them and scream, "You retards are the TOOLs OF your own Enszlavement!!!!!" but of course I don't because they would stare at me like cows waiting for the abattoir and continue to think nothing.


I like your interpretation of St. Paul's words, and it is true that he considers worship of God to be the higher value, but he stills says:

    8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

    9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

    10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

8. Be content with the food and clothing. (Not cell phones, not cars, probably not even a horse or camel).

9. The rich fall into temptation and lust and etc. (the rich as in "those with money")

10. "Love of money is the root of all evil." Seeking money and going beyond the basics (food and clothing) is erring from faith and is the path to sorrow.


Based on my interpretation, he's still condemning wealth, as in living beyond the basics. I appreciate your pointing out that St. Paul is totes cool with using money for the basics (food and clothing... , perhaps basic housing if you wish to find a 'surplus of meaning' with a metaphorical approach.), but still he's condemning the use of money beyond the basics, and he's still lambasting "the love of money [as] the root of all evil." There's really no way you can cover that up.

On wealth beyond food and clothing and 'love of money = root of all evil', St. Paul is still wrong-headed. Putting "love of money" in some black box and saying, "it's the root of evil!" is completely wrong for reasons already stated and which are still relevant.

One can love money as much as they want; it still depends on the consequences and the means.


Bringing up Aristotle is fun! I love the man, and I've read the main parts of his Metaphysics, Nico. Ethics, Physics, and Politics. You know what he said about all this? The highest purpose of one's life is either politics or philosophy (it's 'either-or' because being ambiguous is Aristotle's schtick). So, there's nothing spiritual about that. Therefore, Aristotle didn't reach a similar conclusion to St. Paul's (their concepts of spirituality, or rather the spirit, were very different).

Furthermore, Aristotle is advancing his virtues as the way to go (which does not involve eschewing wealth, being content with only food and clothing, labeling money as the root of all evil, etc.). That section of Aristotle's stems from his doctrine of the mean, which insists on moderation.

For Aristotle, people can enjoy good wine, nice theatre, nice clothes, etc., but only if it's moderation. You don't want to be extravagant, but you don't want to become a beggar subsisting on food and clothing. You stay away from the extremes (one of which St. Paul advocates) and you aim for the mean (middle ground).



The OP asked, "why is it said.... blah blah blah" It's pretty clear from the context that when St. Paul wrote those words, he was not referring to money in the sense of "medium of exchange" so all this arguing about whether money or credit saves you time in the marketplace is completely irrelevant.


So, my criticism is still relevant for reasons stated above, and because St. Paul would demonize any medium of exchange which allowed oneself to be more content without only food and clothing. If money, whatever it may be, enabled one to be rich, St. Paul would say, "[you will] fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts." And no matter what form money may be (i.e. whatever medium of exchange may be), then love of that would still be the root of all evil.

If we could sit him down, and I could ask him what he means about 'money,' he would eventually agree that it means 'medium of exchange which leads to more wealth', then this would make his argument absurd. Then I'd be labeled a heretic or whatever pejorative term, but so it goes.
Last edited by BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:05 am

chang50 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
chang50 wrote:Like most old sayings this one doesn't bear much scrutiny,there is plenty of evil in the world that has no apparent connection to the love of money,eg serial murderers who kill for pleasure.Obviously being obsessed with money and what this leads to is not good..


How about obsessing over money in order to increase the revenue of a reputable charity?

That's somehow not good?

Like I said, it's not about money, or the obsession of money. It depends on one's purpose/value judgements--and definitely not money itself, or the pursuit/love of money.


Perhaps I was unclear,obsessions of all types are usually not good,principally for mental health,although there can be some useful side effects as you point out.


Hey, that's one of my positions, and I'm glad you admit to its benefits. An obsession of money can be good; there's the possibility, which is why I keep hammering about the means of getting that money and especially the consequences.

Thanks for agreeing with that one part, and of course not all obsessions are mentally healthy, so I agree with you on that.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby chang50 on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:22 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
chang50 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
chang50 wrote:Like most old sayings this one doesn't bear much scrutiny,there is plenty of evil in the world that has no apparent connection to the love of money,eg serial murderers who kill for pleasure.Obviously being obsessed with money and what this leads to is not good..


How about obsessing over money in order to increase the revenue of a reputable charity?

That's somehow not good?

Like I said, it's not about money, or the obsession of money. It depends on one's purpose/value judgements--and definitely not money itself, or the pursuit/love of money.


Perhaps I was unclear,obsessions of all types are usually not good,principally for mental health,although there can be some useful side effects as you point out.


Hey, that's one of my positions, and I'm glad you admit to its benefits. An obsession of money can be good; there's the possibility, which is why I keep hammering about the means of getting that money and especially the consequences.

Thanks for agreeing with that one part, and of course not all obsessions are mentally healthy, so I agree with you on that.


some might say spending inordinate amounts of time posting on internet fora is an unhealthy obsession...
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:25 am

Dukusaur wrote:Basically people complicate their lives with materialistic claptrap and forget that the point of life is self-improvement, and self improvement does not proceed from burying yourself up the the neck with all the putrescent shit that Walmart can excrete from its shelves. I mean, what do you really need? Good food, good beer, a warm place to lay your head, and a decent blowjob every now and then. Beyond that, all is vanity and vexation of the spirit, as the old poem goes.

When I see the retards lining up in the rain because the Iphone 3 is out and some marketing asshole told them they had to have one or die, I just want to run up to them and scream, "You retards are the TOOLs OF your own Enszlavement!!!!!" but of course I don't because they would stare at me like cows waiting for the abattoir and continue to think nothing.


I've never understood the iPhone 5 craze--as soon as the phone is released, and assuming these wanna-be consumers already have the iPhone 4; however, value is subjective. Same with fulfillment and whatever. For some people, these sensations are genuine, and other pursuits which you deem higher are actually deemed to be lower for them for a variety of reasons, and some of these reasons prevent them from becoming more fulfilled through your advocated means. In other words, just because your value judgments differ, it does not make them absolutely correct. And your highly valued way of life may actually result in unintended negative consequences for them--if they were to follow.

Your second paragraph to me sounds arrogant and presumptuous. A main problem with humans is that sometimes they think that they know what's best for all others. They mistake their opinion, or their presumption, as truth, and then apply that 'truth' to all others. It's dangerous thinking. It's what got people to get together and agree that socialism (state ownership of production) is actually the best way to allocate resources. It's what led to that disastrous experiment, and the inevitable back-tracking of socialists today (from that previous stance).

But again, that old notion always creeps back up. I'm not saying you're a rabid socialist. I'm suggesting that you should be more open-minded and careful when asserting such opinions as fact for all others. In particular 'circumstances of time and place' with regard to knowledge, which is disperse, you are in no way superior to them--no matter how often you assume that they are "cows waiting for the abattoir and continue to think nothing."


It's as Hayek says:

    "The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."

So, have some humility.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:26 am

chang50 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
chang50 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
chang50 wrote:Like most old sayings this one doesn't bear much scrutiny,there is plenty of evil in the world that has no apparent connection to the love of money,eg serial murderers who kill for pleasure.Obviously being obsessed with money and what this leads to is not good..


How about obsessing over money in order to increase the revenue of a reputable charity?

That's somehow not good?

Like I said, it's not about money, or the obsession of money. It depends on one's purpose/value judgements--and definitely not money itself, or the pursuit/love of money.


Perhaps I was unclear,obsessions of all types are usually not good,principally for mental health,although there can be some useful side effects as you point out.


Hey, that's one of my positions, and I'm glad you admit to its benefits. An obsession of money can be good; there's the possibility, which is why I keep hammering about the means of getting that money and especially the consequences.

Thanks for agreeing with that one part, and of course not all obsessions are mentally healthy, so I agree with you on that.


some might say spending inordinate amounts of time posting on internet fora is an unhealthy obsession...


<dun dun dun>

For me, this forum isn't an end in itself.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:35 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Well, you don't need a bunch money to organize a group of people and hang the local landlord. And it doesn't matter if the rich person feels like some god---as long as the outcomes of his decisions are good, and not bad (because I'm a moral consequentialist). A poor person can feel like a god among men if he organizes some mob under him too! Money and lack of money cut both ways, and power and money are not equivalent (which was what john was asserting).


True, you don't need a bunch of money to organize a group of people and hang the local landlord but this is still relatively small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. You get caught, you go to jail without the money for a good lawyer, end of story. I feel that in modern times it takes at least a decent sized nest egg to make a real difference, good or bad. Poor people are generally too busy living hand to mouth to organize anything substantial.


Mao Zedong would disagree with you.


Funkyterrance wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Your question was too narrow because you're trying to figure out if more wealth/power/money enables a greater potential for harm. Yes, in some cases that can be true, but one need not both wealth/money and power to have similar potentialities to cause bad. Furthermore, the same variables (wealth, etc.) can also increase the potentiality for causing good outcomes. This possibility has been overlooked this entire thread (except by me, I think). People seem to think that money and power corrupt, but they forget:

The person's value judgments and the institutions within which they operate matter the most. The variables themselves (money and power) are not the fundamental causes.


I can submit to the idea that some people do indeed tend to go in the direction of good outcomes and,believe it or not, I considered this in my mind but when it comes to this argument I omitted the fact because when met with wealth most people do not.[1] They may not necessarily lean towards evil but they certainly don't seem to lean towards the common good. If anything they tend to lean towards themselves.[2] It's hard to argue that using wealth to increase one's already comfortable position is going to ultimately benefit the common good. Yes it creates a stable economy but not one in which there is any real advancement, more one where the rich become more comfortable and the commoners survive. The opportunity to advance the common good not taken for the sake of one's own greed could be construed as evil.[3]


[1] That's an empirical claim. Here, as of we now, we don't know if that's a fact, but with the rise of wealth, we've seen significantly less people living in absolute poverty. This rise heavily involves money, which is the root of all evil, yet somehow its use (and some people's love of it) lifts billions of people out of poverty.

[2] In many cases, people who pursue their own interests actually benefit others. Adam Smith called this the Invisible Hand. It's about the benefits derived from voluntary trade--even if one party is only interested in helping himself. It's a story about profit and loss incentives, and how even the most selfish person still behaves in a manner which results in an outcome that a more altruistic person would've done. The Invisible Hand is one of the roots of the concept of spontaneous order.

[3] When people speak in these terms, I think they forget about the benefits of self-interest through voluntary exchanges. If I want your avatar for $20 because I FREAKING LOVE IT and because ME ME ME, and if you agree to the offer, then we're both better off. The outcome was mutually beneficial, and in our economy of two people, the selfish ME ME ME has actually contributed to our 2-person Common Good, without intending to.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby jimboston on Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:42 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
Army of GOD wrote:I would think that a love of money is just as much a cause of evil as like, say, a love of religion. Or a love of anything, really.


I disagree as money has no intrinsic value. Many other things do.


I don't think "Love of Money" means love of cash. I think the idea precedes currency. I'm thinking the original thought is "Love of Wealth" or some such.

Perhaps similar to "Love of Status" or "Love of Fame".

I don't think the idea is about taking greenbacks and burying them under your mattress.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:18 am

@BBS: A good and thoughtful reply.

I don't think the gulf between Aristotle and Paul is as wide as you imagining, but other than that I'm content to let your words stand without further challenge.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:36 pm

Dukasaur wrote:@BBS: A good and thoughtful reply.

I don't think the gulf between Aristotle and Paul is as wide as you imagining, but other than that I'm content to let your words stand without further challenge.


Thanks for posting!

Cya around.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby tzor on Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:14 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:Wait is this all a reference to that "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's" passage?


The problem is it is no longer Caesar's money. So basically I have to give to the Federal Reserve what is the Federal Reserve's and the Federal Government can go take a hike?
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:04 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
[1] That's an empirical claim. Here, as of we now, we don't know if that's a fact, but with the rise of wealth, we've seen significantly less people living in absolute poverty. This rise heavily involves money, which is the root of all evil, yet somehow its use (and some people's love of it) lifts billions of people out of poverty.

[2] In many cases, people who pursue their own interests actually benefit others. Adam Smith called this the Invisible Hand. It's about the benefits derived from voluntary trade--even if one party is only interested in helping himself. It's a story about profit and loss incentives, and how even the most selfish person still behaves in a manner which results in an outcome that a more altruistic person would've done. The Invisible Hand is one of the roots of the concept of spontaneous order.

[3] When people speak in these terms, I think they forget about the benefits of self-interest through voluntary exchanges. If I want your avatar for $20 because I FREAKING LOVE IT and because ME ME ME, and if you agree to the offer, then we're both better off. The outcome was mutually beneficial, and in our economy of two people, the selfish ME ME ME has actually contributed to our 2-person Common Good, without intending to.


Ok, BBS, you saw weakness in facets of my argument and you struck. :)
But I think that the truth in my argument is that there is no correlation between the benefit of the common good and the intent of the wealthy person. While you say it doesn't matter, I think it does. The average wealthy person has the goal of gaining more wealth or at least remaining as comfortable as possible with what he/she has. Btw, I know enough very wealthy people to know this is true most of the time. The source of this gain is more or less inconsequential since money itself is a good way to distance oneself from where it came from. Money looks the same whether you earned it through labor or stole it from a child right?
As far as the common people thriving on the droppings of the rich I am unsure of its universal accuracy. If I eat an apple and throw the core in the woods I rest assured that some animal will probably get a nice meal out of it and feel relatively good about my action. However, if I change the oil in my car and throw the filter into the woods because I didn't feel like taking it to the recycling center I can pretty much assume that I did something shitty and selfish.
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Oct 30, 2012 5:05 pm

"But I think that the truth in my argument is that there is no correlation between the benefit of the common good and the intent of the wealthy person. While you say it doesn't matter, I think it does."

Intentions matter, but good intentions can lead to bad outcomes, thus it depends on the means and consequences.

Think: well-intended socialists who wish to centrally plan for an entire economy of 80 million people without using prices caused by the market. (i.e. Soviet Union, 70 years of inefficiency and high social costs imposed by a very authoritarian state).

Do the intentions of the wealthy matter? As I keep saying, it depends on the means and consequences of their exchange. To be clear, I've been saying that intentions Alone do not matter; the means and consequences do however. (see voluntary v. involuntary exchange part).


"Money looks the same whether you earned it through labor or stole it from a child right? "

The source of the gain hinges on the consequences and means, which completely differ in both cases.

Theft:
If you involuntarily extract money (means), you create a zero-sum exchange (consequence).

Trade (through labor or whatever):
If you voluntary exchange goods (one trading money, the other trading X), then you have a mutually beneficial exchange. (Because both parties value the good that they wish to trade for).

Money 'looks the same' superficially, but that doesn't matter without considering consequences and means.


s far as the common people thriving on the droppings of the rich I am unsure of its universal accuracy. If I eat an apple and throw the core in the woods I rest assured that some animal will probably get a nice meal out of it and feel relatively good about my action. However, if I change the oil in my car and throw the filter into the woods because I didn't feel like taking it to the recycling center I can pretty much assume that I did something shitty and selfish.


I have no idea how you imposing negligible negative externalities (i.e. polluting) somehow equate to the rich guy and common people thriving on droppings, which is another depiction that is completely inaccurate (too normative).
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Re: WHY is it said that the root of all evil is a love of mo

Postby Funkyterrance on Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:18 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:"But I think that the truth in my argument is that there is no correlation between the benefit of the common good and the intent of the wealthy person. While you say it doesn't matter, I think it does."

Intentions matter, but good intentions can lead to bad outcomes, thus it depends on the means and consequences.

Think: well-intended socialists who wish to centrally plan for an entire economy of 80 million people without using prices caused by the market. (i.e. Soviet Union, 70 years of inefficiency and high social costs imposed by a very authoritarian state).

Do the intentions of the wealthy matter? As I keep saying, it depends on the means and consequences of their exchange. To be clear, I've been saying that intentions Alone do not matter; the means and consequences do however. (see voluntary v. involuntary exchange part).


"Money looks the same whether you earned it through labor or stole it from a child right? "

The source of the gain hinges on the consequences and means, which completely differ in both cases.

Theft:
If you involuntarily extract money (means), you create a zero-sum exchange (consequence).

Trade (through labor or whatever):
If you voluntary exchange goods (one trading money, the other trading X), then you have a mutually beneficial exchange. (Because both parties value the good that they wish to trade for).

Money 'looks the same' superficially, but that doesn't matter without considering consequences and means.


s far as the common people thriving on the droppings of the rich I am unsure of its universal accuracy. If I eat an apple and throw the core in the woods I rest assured that some animal will probably get a nice meal out of it and feel relatively good about my action. However, if I change the oil in my car and throw the filter into the woods because I didn't feel like taking it to the recycling center I can pretty much assume that I did something shitty and selfish.


I have no idea how you imposing negligible negative externalities (i.e. polluting) somehow equate to the rich guy and common people thriving on droppings, which is another depiction that is completely inaccurate (too normative).


Ok, my internet which was taken out by the storm is back you crapheads. :P

BBS, I can agree that outcomes are important. A well intending individual can do harm as you have proven with previous posts. But...
Given both a well intending individual and a self-interested individual the probability of a well meaning individual creating a good outcome is better. An individual who acts solely on the basis of what will make he/she more comfortable doesn't necessarily have more insight into what is the most beneficial outcome so we won't assume it. We will assume there are two scenarios:
A- A wealthy person has the intentions of bettering the common good.

B- A wealthy person has the intentions of bettering themselves (AKA, gaining more wealth).

While scenario B may create good outcomes, it would be by pure coincidence. Scenario A would have just as much chance of creating a good outcome only it would have the benefit of making choices solely on the basis of the goodness of the outcome.
A wealthy person who is merely interested in wealth itself could invest in something that could likely be very evil for the collective but be advantageous for him/herself. It could be argued that the person from scenario A is not in love with wealth but using the wealth advantageously towards a good outcome. Conversely the person from scenario B is in love with wealth itself and therefore much more likely to choose an outcome that is not-so-good. The person from scenario A is more flexible and therefore has the advantage since their driving force is not merely to opt for the choice that gives them more wealth. Hence, the apple core/oil filter scenario. The person who throws the apple core is making that choice because it's definitely mutually beneficial (Scenario a). The person who throws the oil filter could very well be the person from scenario B but never the person from scenario A.
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