Suggestion: Territories go neutral if team member is kicked

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Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Chewie1 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:03 am

In Game 11738450

francisco969

Has been kicked from the game for violating the which I appreciate it happens.
Therefore pretender77his partner gets his regions and his cards (total 10 cards)
its esculating spoils and spoils are at 145 giving him a huge advantage.

A lot of effort by myself and other players has been put into this, at the stage francisco was kicked he was down to 3/4 regions I myself had 1 cornered so it wasnt beyond the realms of impossibillity he could have been eliminated before his next turn.
So after he "violated" the rules the game has fallen flat on its face.

I think the system should be changed for team games that when a player deadbeats/violates rules the regions and cards he has become like in terminator games where they are still up fo grabs to who eliminates him or just become straight neutrals like they do in standard games.

How this would benefit the game?

Well in big doubles games like this one only 1 player would be pissed of (the partner of who was kicked) not 6 others.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby chapcrap on Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:51 am

What about in a triples game? Or a quads game?

Losing a teammate basically gives the other team the game and it is not the partners' fault that a teammate was breaking the rules.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby VampireM on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:38 am

chapcrap wrote:What about in a triples game? Or a quads game?

Losing a teammate basically gives the other team the game and it is not the partners' fault that a teammate was breaking the rules.



its all about timing my friend, in any team game (especially escalating cards) there can be a large advantage for ur teammate getting kicked out for violating the rules.. it gives u territory bonuses, and large multi cashes.. This could happen before the other team even has a turn to react... It does not happen often but when it does, it ruins that particular game
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby chapcrap on Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:52 am

VampireM wrote:
chapcrap wrote:What about in a triples game? Or a quads game?

Losing a teammate basically gives the other team the game and it is not the partners' fault that a teammate was breaking the rules.



its all about timing my friend, in any team game (especially escalating cards) there can be a large advantage for ur teammate getting kicked out for violating the rules.. it gives u territory bonuses, and large multi cashes.. This could happen before the other team even has a turn to react... It does not happen often but when it does, it ruins that particular game

And for the times when it's not escalating? This proposal would ruin the game for the team that has the player kicked. It's already difficult enough when another team will get back to back turns because of an elimination. To lose everything that player had as well is over the top.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby VampireM on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:07 am

chapcrap wrote:
VampireM wrote:
chapcrap wrote:What about in a triples game? Or a quads game?

Losing a teammate basically gives the other team the game and it is not the partners' fault that a teammate was breaking the rules.



its all about timing my friend, in any team game (especially escalating cards) there can be a large advantage for ur teammate getting kicked out for violating the rules.. it gives u territory bonuses, and large multi cashes.. This could happen before the other team even has a turn to react... It does not happen often but when it does, it ruins that particular game

And for the times when it's not escalating? This proposal would ruin the game for the team that has the player kicked. It's already difficult enough when another team will get back to back turns because of an elimination. To lose everything that player had as well is over the top.


More then likely an easy win for the team not having the player kicked, but there is still rare times where it does benefit the team with the violating player even in games that are not escalating cards.

Edit: Why does it matter if it only effects escalating card games? To me it still looks like a flaw in the system and there is a suggestion to fix it which i support
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Chewie1 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:12 am

VampireM wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
VampireM wrote:
chapcrap wrote:What about in a triples game? Or a quads game?

Losing a teammate basically gives the other team the game and it is not the partners' fault that a teammate was breaking the rules.



its all about timing my friend, in any team game (especially escalating cards) there can be a large advantage for ur teammate getting kicked out for violating the rules.. it gives u territory bonuses, and large multi cashes.. This could happen before the other team even has a turn to react... It does not happen often but when it does, it ruins that particular game

And for the times when it's not escalating? This proposal would ruin the game for the team that has the player kicked. It's already difficult enough when another team will get back to back turns because of an elimination. To lose everything that player had as well is over the top.


More then likely an easy win for the team not having the player kicked, but there is still rare times where it does benefit the team with the violating player even in games that are not escalating cards.



Edit: Why does it matter if it only effects escalating card games? To me it still looks like a flaw in the system and there is a suggestion to fix it which i support


I can see all these points in flat rate or no spoils depending on the state of the game it could still work out equal but in esc in definitely benefits the team mate that grabs all the cards for a multiple cash.
Therefore maybe it could be fixed so the unfortunate partner gets the regions but not the cards?
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby chapcrap on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:25 am

Chewie1 wrote:I can see all these points in flat rate or no spoils depending on the state of the game it could still work out equal but in esc in definitely benefits the team mate that grabs all the cards for a multiple cash.
Therefore maybe it could be fixed so the unfortunate partner gets the regions but not the cards?

That is something I could consider a lot more... Not sure if I like it, but more reasonable than the original, IMO.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Dukasaur on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:45 am

Chewie1 wrote:I can see all these points in flat rate or no spoils depending on the state of the game it could still work out equal but in esc in definitely benefits the team mate that grabs all the cards for a multiple cash.
Therefore maybe it could be fixed so the unfortunate partner gets the regions but not the cards?

Sounds like a very reasonable compromise.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby agentcom on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:05 pm

Keep in mind that the status quo is a compromise as with a lot of the rules on this site. I would have to guess that the team losing a player has a negative effect on the team far more often than it has a positive effect on the team.

Basically, I'm with chap on this one.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Vid_FISO on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:07 pm

Given that these players have been booted from all games for whatever reason and so I assume that their accounts are suspended, wouldn't it be possible for someone "neutral" (mod/ admin/ whatever) to take over all of their team games for the duration so that nobody gains any advantage or disadvantage regardless?
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby agentcom on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:15 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:Given that these players have been booted from all games for whatever reason and so I assume that their accounts are suspended, wouldn't it be possible for someone "neutral" (mod/ admin/ whatever) to take over all of their team games for the duration so that nobody gains any advantage or disadvantage regardless?


This topic is about deadbeats, but it's basically what you're saying. The game would have to be put on pause while players wait and it would be subject to abuse as people would only join games that they have a good chance of winning in. Or you make it for no points and players don't have as much incentive to play hard. Plus it's a major site upgrade for a relatively minor problem. I've played 3000 games and only had another player (not necessarily a teammate) kicked out a few times. I would doubt that anything like this is going to happen, but it is an interesting idea.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:33 pm

This has been considered and rejected before. Please look at the old threads on the subject before making a new one.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Vid_FISO on Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:54 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:This has been considered and rejected before. Please look at the old threads on the subject before making a new one.


Apparently there is a new regime and a number of players have been booted in recent days (coincidence?) so perhaps there might be a different outlook from those now in charge?
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:00 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This has been considered and rejected before. Please look at the old threads on the subject before making a new one.


Apparently there is a new regime and a number of players have been booted in recent days (coincidence?) so perhaps there might be a different outlook from those now in charge?


Perhaps, but the new "regime" has to get through all the actually approved suggestions before we can start reconsidering all the ones that were rejected (usually for good reason).
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Re: Suggestion: Territories go neutral if team member is kic

Postby agentcom on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:11 pm

MERGED a couple of topics. Introduction added to OP.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Chewie1 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:07 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:This has been considered and rejected before. Please look at the old threads on the subject before making a new one.



The amount of threads on this site are immense so didnt think to look, sorry.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Chewie1 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:09 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Vid_FISO wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This has been considered and rejected before. Please look at the old threads on the subject before making a new one.


Apparently there is a new regime and a number of players have been booted in recent days (coincidence?) so perhaps there might be a different outlook from those now in charge?


Perhaps, but the new "regime" has to get through all the actually approved suggestions before we can start reconsidering all the ones that were rejected (usually for good reason).




Just because its been rejected before it doesnt make it the right decesion.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:15 pm

Chewie1 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Vid_FISO wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This has been considered and rejected before. Please look at the old threads on the subject before making a new one.


Apparently there is a new regime and a number of players have been booted in recent days (coincidence?) so perhaps there might be a different outlook from those now in charge?


Perhaps, but the new "regime" has to get through all the actually approved suggestions before we can start reconsidering all the ones that were rejected (usually for good reason).




Just because its been rejected before it doesnt make it the right decesion.


That doesn't change the fact that there's an immense amount of information and ideas in the older threads on the subject, and being ignorant of them does not help your cause.

Furthermore, whether the decision that was made was the "right" one or not, that is the standard protocol in the Suggestions forum.
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Vid_FISO on Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:15 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that there's an immense amount of information and ideas in the older threads on the subject, and being ignorant of them does not help your cause.

Furthermore, whether the decision that was made was the "right" one or not, that is the standard protocol in the Suggestions forum.


Surely a better "protocol" would be for a thread to be locked with a link to the previous discussion?
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Re: Team play and partners who violate the rules.

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:31 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that there's an immense amount of information and ideas in the older threads on the subject, and being ignorant of them does not help your cause.

Furthermore, whether the decision that was made was the "right" one or not, that is the standard protocol in the Suggestions forum.


Surely a better "protocol" would be for a thread to be locked with a link to the previous discussion?


No. Depending on the subject, one of two things makes sense:

- A thread that serves as a compendium of links to related suggestions (this is done for very common suggestions), OR
- Merging them all in one thread

Leaving them separate gives no way for someone to easily find all of the threads on a particular topic, and easy access to information on the topic is more important than individual thread identity in the majority of cases.
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Re: Suggestion: Territories go neutral if team member is kic

Postby Vid_FISO on Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:24 pm

So, Chewie's thread has been merged with a rejected suggestions thread even though it dealt with a different issue to the original, that being having a team member removed from a game with no warning at all for either team, the original thread involved deadbeats where there are 3 missed moves before the player gets kicked, unfortunate but both sides can see it coming as the third period of 24 hours approaches conclusion.

No idea how common it is for players to get booted for "violation of rules", but as Chewie raised it and it has happened in a game that I'm currently playing it may possibly be something we'll see more of under the new regime?

In this merged thread I see nothing close to my suggestion of in the instance of a player being booted without warning being "covered" by a neutral for those team games in play (be they clan, tourney or bog-standard team games) so as not to cause advantage or disadvantage players of any teams involved in those games. Players can be replaced for subsequent tourney games, clans simply use other players and it's not an issue for other games, but by booting a player mid-game(s) can unduly influence a tourney or war.

Reset the booted player's password and allow someone else to play moves in team games that are in play. That someone else to come from a group of volunteers and selected by admin/ mods.
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Re: Suggestion: Territories go neutral if team member is kic

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:35 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:No idea how common it is for players to get booted for "violation of rules", but as Chewie raised it and it has happened in a game that I'm currently playing it may possibly be something we'll see more of under the new regime?


Probably not. I am no longer on staff so I don't have any more concrete information than you, but from the looks of it the new administration is going through the list and booting people who are severe rule breakers. Once they are done with this cleanup, things will probably go back to the normal rate of people being booted (which is infrequent, except in the case of multis). Most of the cases that are not multis being automatically booted can be found in the C&A forum.

In this merged thread I see nothing close to my suggestion of in the instance of a player being booted without warning being "covered" by a neutral for those team games in play (be they clan, tourney or bog-standard team games) so as not to cause advantage or disadvantage players of any teams involved in those games. Players can be replaced for subsequent tourney games, clans simply use other players and it's not an issue for other games, but by booting a player mid-game(s) can unduly influence a tourney or war.


I have seen similar suggestions before. In particular, the one that's relatively common deals with what happens when a teammate deadbeats out of a game. The protocol for what happens in that situation should probably be similar to what happens when a teammate is booted for rules violation; you can search out the threads on deadbeating if you want to see the specifics.

Reset the booted player's password and allow someone else to play moves in team games that are in play. That someone else to come from a group of volunteers and selected by admin/ mods.


This is not a practical solution. I doubt there will be many volunteers to take over and play games that they have no stake in. As agentcom points out in the modified first post of this thread, we've already come up with a solution for the problem of what happens when someone is booted for rules violation:

viewtopic.php?f=535&t=106691

This is the best compromise that I am aware of, because then the team does not completely lose the troops, but does not get them all added to other players, giving them unfair and unpredicted strength.
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Re: Suggestion: Territories go neutral if team member is kic

Postby Vid_FISO on Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:49 pm

Thanks for the link, 94% in favour so possibly when other issues have been addressed it's something that might be implemented.

Better Chewie's thread was not merged and that link was posted in the first place though.
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Re: Suggestion: Territories go neutral if team member is kic

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:08 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:Thanks for the link, 94% in favour so possibly when other issues have been addressed it's something that might be implemented.


Absolutely -- this is something that has annoyed a large number of players throughout the years, so I expect it to be implemented if that solution is technologically feasible.
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Re: Suggestion: Territories go neutral if team member is kic

Postby agentcom on Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:13 pm

Vid_FISO wrote:So, Chewie's thread has been merged with a rejected suggestions thread even though it dealt with a different issue to the original, that being having a team member removed from a game with no warning at all for either team, the original thread involved deadbeats where there are 3 missed moves before the player gets kicked, unfortunate but both sides can see it coming as the third period of 24 hours approaches conclusion.


I don't think it's much different. The question is what to do with the troops and cards of someone who has been removed from the game. Some of the suggestions in the OP deal with deadbeats, some with rules violations and some with both. Please go back and read the OP.

In this merged thread I see nothing close to my suggestion of in the instance of a player being booted without warning being "covered" by a neutral for those team games in play (be they clan, tourney or bog-standard team games) so as not to cause advantage or disadvantage players of any teams involved in those games. Players can be replaced for subsequent tourney games, clans simply use other players and it's not an issue for other games, but by booting a player mid-game(s) can unduly influence a tourney or war.

Reset the booted player's password and allow someone else to play moves in team games that are in play. That someone else to come from a group of volunteers and selected by admin/ mods.


Metsfan has pointed you in the right direction. If you would have checked out the intro I posted in the OP, that suggestion was linked to from there. I don't write this stuff for my own health, ya know.
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