Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[Rodion]

Finally caught up on Lovecraft, going to read this game now. LOL's season 2 is officially over, so I'll have a lot more time for mafia.

[DRoZ]

Keep in mind we need to make a concerted effort to ensure maximum benefit from chaps ability should he be able to speak tomorrow.

[vodean]

at this point, unless someone presents an actual case on me (not the "ooh, look, vodean is being scummy" bullshit that always gets me lynched (granted, its true but it doesnt mean im scum), or presents some other info, this day is going to stagnate and end in a vodean lynch. i dont see either one as beneficial to town,so someone please do something. present some info. present a real case on me that i could defend myself against. being vodean is indefensible.

[jonty125]

Keep in mind we need to make a concerted effort to ensure maximum benefit from chaps ability should he be able to speak tomorrow.

Why don't you contribute some sort of a case with this? FOS Droz.

[NoSurvivors]

being vodean is indefensible.

^the man speak the truth.. and DroZ.... are you suggesting that he will be able to speak tomorrow? Do you know somethin? o.o (Cos frankly I'd like to know, considering how slow this game's being)

[DRoZ]

I am hoping we will hear from chap and would like to make sure that we plan accordingly. I am saying that if we all just flood our votes on vod, then it will be difficult to discern any info out of chaps ability should he return. I am a little suspicious that neither of you would want to follow chaps plan. I am fine with voting for vod, just want to make sure the votes on the lynched optimize chaps (and thereby, our) knowledge.

[safariguy5]

Alright vodean, you want some evidence? Here we go:

JG. look. we fucked up. lets try to move on without getting all defensive.
town, scum wouldnt out two of themselves to get one townie, would they? no. thats a ridiculous trade. especially to kill a vote stealer, and especially early on. so dont be so defensive, you are only making yourself worse. you are town, and i am not anti-town, so act like it. dont paint yourself as scummy (i know, strange coming from me). there is a better way to convince town that we are on their side than to point fingers all over the place. lets hear some results from last night, and then make a logical decision rather than an emotional one.

Fishing for night actions.

And then of course this one:

No one visited my target, but I would not feel comfortable naming who I watched.

At this point dont say who you watched.

why? because he might get counter-claimed?

So fishing for night actions twice in the same day. Here's the reason why you feel like you continually get picked on every game vodean. Once we get past the Day 1 stuff, you depend on night actions like a crutch. You expect that we're always going to get night actions that lead us directly to scum every night. Night actions are nice, but we cannot rely on them to lead us to scum every day. Some good, old-fashioned scumhunting is usually necessary. Night actions are a powerful tool, but if wasted by premature claiming, serve very little to us except to paint a bullseye on the people claiming them.

Instead of actually trying to scumhunt, you have taken this victim mentality and attempt to characterize every single case on you as picking on you. Well maybe it's time to realize that your style of play is very short on substantive evidence and very long on speculation.

unvote vote vodean

[vodean]

thanks for this.

Alright vodean, you want some evidence? Here we go:

JG. look. we fucked up. lets try to move on without getting all defensive.
town, scum wouldnt out two of themselves to get one townie, would they? no. thats a ridiculous trade. especially to kill a vote stealer, and especially early on. so dont be so defensive, you are only making yourself worse. you are town, and i am not anti-town, so act like it. dont paint yourself as scummy (i know, strange coming from me). there is a better way to convince town that we are on their side than to point fingers all over the place. lets hear some results from last night, and then make a logical decision rather than an emotional one.

Fishing for night actions. nope. waiting for chap's action and also hoping that maybe someone else got a guilty result or other valuable info that they would like to share. i guess it is technically action-fishing, but it is not pressuring someone into revealing what they did, just asking if anyone has any valuable intel.

And then of course this one:

No one visited my target, but I would not feel comfortable naming who I watched.

At this point dont say who you watched.

why? because he might get counter-claimed?

well he is fully role-claimed, and even revealed that he gained no info, so he wouldnt be exposing anyone by revealing the information, and so i dont see any reason to hide the information, unless he is hiding something, or believes that his action was messed with (hiding something) for whatever reason. it wont hurt town to know that no one visited someone.
So fishing for night actions twice in the same day. Here's the reason why you feel like you continually get picked on every game vodean. Once we get past the Day 1 stuff, you depend on night actions like a crutch. You expect that we're always going to get night actions that lead us directly to scum every night. Night actions are nice, but we cannot rely on them to lead us to scum every day. Some good, old-fashioned scumhunting is usually necessary. Night actions are a powerful tool, but if wasted by premature claiming, serve very little to us except to paint a bullseye on the people claiming them.

Instead of actually trying to scumhunt, you have taken this victim mentality and attempt to characterize every single case on you as picking on youi never say anyone is picking on me. in fact, i never even blame anyone else for getting lynched. i actually enjoy being under pressure and open. the games in which i am less scummy at times, it is either because i am hiding something or because there is a point i wish to make. the thing that makes me so scummy is that i dont really hide my feelings about cases, like the rest of you. i am open and honest, and you are not used to it. yes, i often give scum-tells because of it, but thats just because i tell what i mean, and not what will make you think i am town. being under the gun allows you to get great insight into what is happening when.. Well maybe it's time to realize that your style of play is very short on substantive evidence and very long on speculation. since substantive evidence is night actions, and most cases are just speculation, then in your eyes i am doing great.

unvote vote vodean

[VioIet]

I am hoping we will hear from chap and would like to make sure that we plan accordingly. I am saying that if we all just flood our votes on vod, then it will be difficult to discern any info out of chaps ability should he return. I am a little suspicious that neither of you would want to follow chaps plan. I am fine with voting for vod, just want to make sure the votes on the lynched optimize chaps (and thereby, our) knowledge.

In a normal situation you would be correct; however, the mod already told us to not wait for Chap. I take it that Chap is inactive and didn't submit his night action. This is pure speculation right now, but I believe I have good reason for thinking this. Remember back on Night 2, Chap requested that Edoc post a final vote count (which hadn't been done prior to the lynch). Edoc complied because they both needed this information.

Chap was not present during the end of Day 3, nor was a final vote count posted. If Chap was active, he would've requested that Edoc post a final vote count, just like he had on Day 2.

Unfortunately, we aren't going to get any info from Chap today (Day 4). We'll have to move on.

[jonty125]

Posting seems to be a bit thin on the ground. I am happy with vodean's defense.

[DRoZ]

I think it is extremely short sighted to not at least plan for chap to use his ability for todays lynch, should he be able to return. It doesn't affect who we lynch one way or the other, so why not hope for the best. I think it is far more likely that he has been silenced than just inactive. His role is very important to the town and if he was simply inactive then I would assume the mod would prod and replace not just say to not wait for their response. In my opinion that looks like they are just unable to participate for whatever reason.

[vodean]

I think it is extremely short sighted to not at least plan for chap to use his ability for todays lynch, should he be able to return. It doesn't affect who we lynch one way or the other, so why not hope for the best. I think it is far more likely that he has been silenced than just inactive. His role is very important to the town and if he was simply inactive then I would assume the mod would prod and replace not just say to not wait for their response. In my opinion that looks like they are just unable to participate for whatever reason.

he was inactive at the end of yesterday and there were no signs of a silencer prior to this. thats not a role that scum often saves for later...

[jgordon1111]

Here is the thing that makes me think that it has already been used before,correct me if I am wrong Has VS been replaced? I dont think so yet has anyone heard from him? It may not be your normal silence role at work here.

Edoc in case I am wrong can you prod VS or let us know if he is being replaced.

[Rodion]

Just reached page 35. I don't get why Hensow would revive Greg when he could have revived LSU 1.0 and gotten him (or his replacement) to name his N1 target, Mammon. Gonna keep reading, and I don't know what happened between pages 35-57 other than "flips", but not seeing Mammon flip in page 1 really pissed the shit out of me.
Sorry for the outburst and I'll get back to reading.

[gregwolf121]

how long till deadline?

and mod can we get a vote count