SirJohn13 & geots [Cleared] DCR

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SirJohn13 & geots [Cleared] DCR

Postby universalchiro on Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:22 pm

Accused:

SirJohn13
geots




The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy: Both players play in doubles together as teammates. Both players play together in Quads as teammates, both players are members of A fistful of sixes, then both players play in fog terminator games, pretending to be wholly separate, but they rarely attack each other and both show uncanny ability to go straight to a particular foe to eliminate them and collect the points, though that foe is scattered across the board hidden.

This is their Modus operandi... They join terminator games where they are suppose to be individuals, yet they are sharing text messages, emails and they both know each others passwords. So they simply log on to their partner's account, view the fog map and gain an unfair advantage to see the board that is hidden from their own account. Log back into their own account and proceed directly to hidden foe to eliminate.

We all know teammates have each others passwords to cover potential missed turns etc. But this is abuse and cheating.




Game number(s):

Game 11851031
Game 11735919

This is just a fraction of the fog terminator games they are in together. To list doubles/triples/Quads they are in together would take a long list...



Comments: from universalchiro
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby Kaskavel on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:30 am

This is an unbased accusation. Both those players, as well as me, gonakuruto and mc05025, are real life friends and we learned the game from each other. All are fair players and would never do such a thing. There are hundreds, if not thousand of games, that we have played against each other, almost always escalating for obvious reasons, and we never had a problem. Logging in in friend's accounts to get information in fog games is a great abuse that has nothing to do with those 2 players.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby silversun6 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:38 am

i played many games with both of them . never seen anything to suppore this claim.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby mc05025 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:20 am

They are both my friends in real life, I invited them in the clan to play quality team games. I have a lot of real friends playing at cc (I invited the most of them) and I play with them all type of games (as the most of them are really good at strategy games and they have really high ranks like conqueror :P). At this game, if you want there are many ways to cheat when playing with a friend but I do not think any of my friend whould do something like that to gain points at an online game. PS at my last fog terminator game with Geots I killed him at the early rounds even if I am playing with him teamgames at the moment
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby mc05025 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:39 am

I was just curious to see if your claim is based somewhere and I chacked about the first 20 fog terminator games with them. I found that in a lot of them they do elliminate each other in the early rounds. For example Game 11443018 it is KINGS court II (I was playing at that game too) and people pass through the King and has the opportunity to try to kill who ever they want. Geots killed sirjohn13 and then lost the game as the gain was not enough for him to continue.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby SirJohn13 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:31 pm

universalchiro accused me by PM before opening this thread. His accusation concerned only this game:
Game 11851031
and specifically round 10 where I eliminated him.

I assume it is easy for the admins to check that I did not log in geots's account while or right before taking this turn, so I know there is no need to bother explaining myself any more, but I can do it anyway.
Perhaps this way I can educate univeraslchiro on how to handle escalating fog games.

I had a set and since it is terminator I thought it was worth trying to eliminate any of the players. I deployed most of my troops next to dkmaster's big stacks as he seemed the best target (I could see all but one of his regions), but the troops were put in a way that I could attack teal's or orange's big stacks if I changed my mind.

I built 2 more stacks to explore the map for the missing region(s) and in doing so I stumbled upon teal's 2 remaining regions so I was able to eliminate him (with a bit of luck in the dice). I only found dkmaster's remaining region too late.

After I cashed again, I made many attacks but failed to find and eliminate anyone, do you think that if I could see geots's view as well I would have failed like this at wrapping up the game?
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby universalchiro on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:17 pm

SirJohn13 writes "I assume it is easy for the admins to check that I did not log in geots's account while or right before taking this turn" How about since the fog game started? Your statement of innocence doesn't include logging in since game started.

All your friends saying nice things, they have no knowledge of whether you didn't log into geots account to sneak a view.

Have Conquer club do a review of you logging into geots account after game started. That is where you are caught and don't have a leg to stand on...

It is unethical to play a single player game of fog with your buddies as secret allies. And sharing information...
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby SirJohn13 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:51 pm

In the past I don't know how many days, I have only logged in geots's account once, stayed on for like 30sec and just played a turn on a King's Court II triples game where we were teammates.

I don't know how much log-in info/history is available to the admins, but it is quite likely that they can see exactly which pages within the game I accessed from geots's account and confirm that I only played a turn in that triples game.
Even if this info is not available, still your claim has no grounds whatsoever. You do not have any evidence, not even circumstantial, your only argument to support the claim that I cheated is that I had the possibility to do it.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby SirJohn13 on Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:09 pm

Actually universalchrio, you don't even know what exactly you are accusing me of.

Firstly you accused me of cheating in that specific game via PM. Then you implied in the game chat that someone else in this game was intentionally helping me, so it was the two of us cheating, not just me. Then you open a thread claiming me and geots have been cheating in various fog games in general. Finally you change your opinion once more and focus again on this particular game, this time claiming that I logged in geots's account to cheat without him knowing.

So can you please make up your mind and decide whom you are accusing and what of?
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby geots on Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:23 pm

It is not clear if there is a direct accusation to me but in any case I'll contribute to a potential investigation by CC administrators. I support fair play and have stayed true to my values in difficult dilemmas in my life - not to mention a browser game like CC.

At the same time I am not willing to give universalchiro a free ride for an unjustified accusation. I expect at minimum a written apology by him, addressing the same audience who has visibility to this thread.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby Edgron on Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:11 pm

I played a lot of games against these guys in last 5/6 months or so. Never had issues and I don't believe there is. Both good people if you ask me and I will stick to that.

That's all!
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby Symmetry on Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:43 pm

This seems like an easy fix- don't play against each other in games with other people. Simple stuff. The evidence in the OP is enough for a degree of suspicion, so it'd be crappy to blame the OP for thinking something was off, justified or not.

Play team games, or play separate games. It's not as if the accused are so starved of games that they have to play against their team/clan mates.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby SirJohn13 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:18 pm

Me, geots, Kaskavel and mc05025 are all real life friends and we are all generals, with the exception of Kaskavel who is currently the conqueror (congrats btw). We often join some private games for 3000+ players, because we enjoy the strong competition. You can see how restrictive it is if only one of us can join per game, as there are neither many such games nor many players eligible.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby Symmetry on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:47 pm

SirJohn13 wrote:Me, geots, Kaskavel and mc05025 are all real life friends and we are all generals, with the exception of Kaskavel who is currently the conqueror (congrats btw). We often join some private games for 3000+ players, because we enjoy the strong competition. You can see how restrictive it is if only one of us can join per game, as there are neither many such games nor many players eligible.



These weren't private games, as far as I can tell. I think that this is more mitigation (and fairly put mitigation) of wrongdoing (it looks like you messed up rather than did something deliberately wrong).

A mess up is a mess up.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby SirJohn13 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 7:55 pm

All non-team games I play are private games for a long time now. And I did not mess up at all. There is nothing wrong with playing games where some of the opps are friends of yours. If someone doesn't like that the logical thing is that they stay away of these games, not me or geots or any other friend.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby Symmetry on Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:12 pm

SirJohn13 wrote:All non-team games I play are private games for a long time now. And I did not mess up at all. There is nothing wrong with playing games where some of the opps are friends of yours. If someone doesn't like that the logical thing is that they stay away of these games, not me or geots or any other friend.


I'm not sure what you mean- there's no good way to tell if you're playing with people who know each other as friends very closely unless you're one of those friends.

That's why it seems like you should avoid joining these public games against one another. That shouldn't be tough in future, right? I'm erring on the more generous side by considering this a mess-up.

If this was deliberate, then it's a bit more serious.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots

Postby mc05025 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:54 pm

Symmetry wrote:
That's why it seems like you should avoid joining these public games against one another. That shouldn't be tough in future, right?



No, it is tough. I like to play escalating games with generals in order to play quality games.

There 38 at the moment. The half of them do not play private escalating games. So 19 overall. Every game can have 8 players. So if I do not join any game with geots, sirjohn, and Kaskavel I will be able to join about the half games I'd like to.
In addition I like playing with friends.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots [Pending] DCR

Postby deathcomesrippin on Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:45 am

OK, I want to thank everyone for their input, I think we can take it from here.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots [Pending] DCR

Postby Chariot of Fire on Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:47 pm

SirJohn is a stand-up guy whose passion is for multiplayer esc games. He regularly invites other high ranks to his private games and, in turn, he is invited himself (along with geots) to other people's private games. If you look at the games SirJohn creates (about half sunny, half fog) you'll notice geots is in a majority of sunny games. If they were in collaboration you wouldn't see this - they would go for mostly fog games, right? Also you would see a winning pattern in their fog games together, but this isn't the case. Of their last 40 games (esc fog) both Sir John & geots combined have won just 10. They are two of the best and fairest players on the site.

It's easy to jump to conclusions when seeing two clan mates playing in the same game (I've never created an esc fog game and invited a clan mate for this very reason), but it doesn't mean the players are guilty of a secret alliance. They just want to have a good game at the highest level and fill all the empty slots in a game.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots [Pending] DCR

Postby puppydog85 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:49 pm

deathcomesrippin wrote:OK, I want to thank everyone for their input, I think we can take it from here.



No! Don't spoil the show. With GLG gone this high ranking level of controversy is needed to fill the void. This is like watching the high god's on Olympus argue (think Zeus and Posiden)
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots [Pending] DCR

Postby Chewie1 on Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:13 pm

Seems like a simple case of ' bad loser syndrome'
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots [Pending] DCR

Postby deathcomesrippin on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:42 pm

SirJohn13 and geots are Cleared of Secret Diplomacy.

I can find no hard evidence that these players exchange any kind of message giving game details to each other. They also do not log into each others' accounts, apart from the singular time that was stated earlier in this discussion. That being said, if they wish to not have this come up again, they may wish to expand their playlist of people a bit instead of inviting the same group of friends and a few randoms apart from that. But that is neither here no there. The games they start are private when they are not on the same team, and if other players wish to now stay away because of this case, they may, it is their prerogative.

No apology will be forced out of the OP. We don't do that here. If the OP feels like apologizing for bringing forth what he thought was a legit complaint, then he will, but this was not spurious in nature so there will be nothing brought against the OP. If there is a case put up in the C&A about him pertaining to him posting this, that WILL be deemed spurious. Now that this case is closed, everyone here can get back to doing whatever it is they do when there is no big case going on involving someone with a high score. Thank you.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots [Cleared] DCR

Postby RobG on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:50 pm

I have also found three people who play together in more games. They call themselves Mkneely, DAppel & Wshanahan. Look at game 11768811 as example. You can read in the game log that they already know each other by name. They don't attack each other, but attck first other people to kick them out of the game, and then one of the three wins the game.
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots [Pending] DCR

Postby jltile1 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:41 pm

deathcomesrippin wrote:SirJohn13 and geots are Cleared of Secret Diplomacy.

I can find no hard evidence that these players exchange any kind of message giving game details to each other. They also do not log into each others' accounts, apart from the singular time that was stated earlier in this discussion. That being said, if they wish to not have this come up again, they may wish to expand their playlist of people a bit instead of inviting the same group of friends and a few randoms apart from that. But that is neither here no there. The games they start are private when they are not on the same team, and if other players wish to now stay away because of this case, they may, it is their prerogative.

No apology will be forced out of the OP. We don't do that here. If the OP feels like apologizing for bringing forth what he thought was a legit complaint, then he will, but this was not spurious in nature so there will be nothing brought against the OP. If there is a case put up in the C&A about him pertaining to him posting this, that WILL be deemed spurious. Now that this case is closed, everyone here can get back to doing whatever it is they do when there is no big case going on involving someone with a high score. Thank you.



A explanation is always nice. =D>

I agree 100 %
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Re: SirJohn13 & geots [Pending] DCR

Postby deathcomesrippin on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:10 pm

jltile1 wrote:
deathcomesrippin wrote:SirJohn13 and geots are Cleared of Secret Diplomacy.

I can find no hard evidence that these players exchange any kind of message giving game details to each other. They also do not log into each others' accounts, apart from the singular time that was stated earlier in this discussion. That being said, if they wish to not have this come up again, they may wish to expand their playlist of people a bit instead of inviting the same group of friends and a few randoms apart from that. But that is neither here no there. The games they start are private when they are not on the same team, and if other players wish to now stay away because of this case, they may, it is their prerogative.

No apology will be forced out of the OP. We don't do that here. If the OP feels like apologizing for bringing forth what he thought was a legit complaint, then he will, but this was not spurious in nature so there will be nothing brought against the OP. If there is a case put up in the C&A about him pertaining to him posting this, that WILL be deemed spurious. Now that this case is closed, everyone here can get back to doing whatever it is they do when there is no big case going on involving someone with a high score. Thank you.



A explanation is always nice. =D>

I agree 100 %


I am trying to be more forthcoming recently :)
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