Escalating Peloponnesian

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Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby jleonnn on Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:12 am

On escalating Peloponnesian and other similar conquest-style maps, the gameplay is unique to classic style maps in that it's relatively easy to attack and eliminate a player since all his territories are in one area. These maps include, of course, fuedal, WWII Poland, AoR1, etc. AoR2 not so much, as by the time cards mean anything, games would already be in the ending stages.

In maps like Fuedal and WWII Poland, the best thing to do (please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't play esc that much) is to stack on your starting position or somewhere near and bombard (from the castle in fuedal and from the planes in Poland) until cards are worth around 20-30 maybe and you can start eliminating players.

However, in maps such as Peloponnesian War and AoR1, there is no bombard option. Thus, to get spoils one must assault a territory. So take this game as an example: Game 11896351, which caused me to start the thread. I'm at Dardanians and I have two options.

Option 1: Stay within the Dardanian "boundaries" - ie. stay within the nuetral 6s and keep stacking. The advantage is that I can attack both the players to my left and to my right when the opportunity arises. However, I will not be able to get cards as I will soon run out of territories to hit and there isn't any bombard option. This will leave me severely less troops as the card value escalates, leaving me in a weaker position to eliminate another player should the opportunity arise. Instead, I will have to mostly rely on someone weakening the player for me so I can swoop in and take the cards. This is pretty risky though.

Option 2: Move out of the Dardanian area. I will expand out of the neutral 6s to continue to get cards and cash. The advantage is, of course, having more troops to eliminate people with. The downside, however, is that I will have to choose whether to break out on my left, or to my right. So suppose I decide to break out toward the left and place my stack somewhere west of Macedonians, continuing to attack one terit at a time to gain cards. This would mean that entry to the right region (Pontus, Lemnians, etc.) would be blocked by my own territories. So if an opportunity arises in the right, say someone tried to eliminate a player perhaps with 5 cards and the value is pretty high, I would be unable to finish him off as my stack is tied up on the other side of the map. Another downside is that after expanding outside my own territory, I will probably clash with some other stacks. While more experienced players will know to just leave it be, some noobs may not understand this and will probably suicide, effectively ending the game for both of us.

It has occured to me that I could split stack into two and place them both on the left/right side of my territory but I think this is more defensive gameplay and will probably be a bad idea if I'm trying to eliminate someone. So I just wanna know what would you guys do? Thanks in advance!

jl.
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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby Kaskavel on Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:53 pm

This is a very complicated subject, especialy in Peloponesian. I do not have the time to expand in huge detail now, but I will mention that holding Dardanians is problematic in escalating games. The answer is you cannot keep both west-east options available but you are usualy vunlerable from both sides. My default advice is that you take all neutrals less than 6 troops and keep your guns pointing at the west. This is the standard method of play as I understand it in fog games. Of course in a no-fog game, you have more info and you may choose the opposite. For example the cook's passive play/lost turns influence the play.
Your natural enemy is typicaly the player in Illyrians since you are very close. In the meantime, the danger from the east is significantly smaller compare to the west. Not only are players more far aside, but they tend to have their own problems. The Persian guy will always point Icarians, so Icarians keep their guns South as well. A good Lemnians will, realizing that, keep his guns to the North and a good Pontus player, also realizing all that, will keep his front to the South. This has already happened in your game. They have already made those 2 battles, killing each other. This logic in combination with the short distance from Illyrians, should by itself convince you to emphasize in the west. Attacking Pontus in fog is a big gamble, because you are comitted to wasting your troops far before seeing opponent's main stack. If his stack is too big for you, you are butchered since there is no turning back. In the West, things are not so clear because 3 players are generaly about to clash in Elimiotes, while the Roman player, isolated from a quick slaughter, has all the time to "read" the fog log and choose to go for Illyrians or for Skyros from below. Overall, with fog, keep your stack to Macedonians and after being forced to hit Elimiotes, choose your kill comparing the stacks you find.
In your case, there is no fog and there are some strange player behavors. Lost turns, 2 eliminations before the main spoils are reached, it is really very strange. Still, it is your best chance to stay face-to face to Illyrians. It is unlikely you will have the firepower to hit green and even if you do, pink will come to you anytime, especialy if the cook in Skyros deadbeats. If you get to be the winner, you will face the East winner pretty soon. Take your east spoils and keep pointing to the west gathering all troops there. At least you do not have the typical reinforcement problem I have there since you have unlimited option chosen.
It is obvious that many players can and will make different comments than me, but that is what I think about this case, both in general and in the specific situation.
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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby jleonnn on Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:55 pm

Alright thanks! :) So essentially I'll stay at macedonians, while attacking other nuetrals such as Mygdonians, Bisaltians, etc. (in the general area of macedonians)? Then I'll wait for a chance to eliminate Illyrians, Skyros and Romans, cash and head east?
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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby Viceroy63 on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:36 am

The only bad thing about posting the links to games that are in progress is that if your opponents also read this strategy forum then they now know what you intend to do. The mentoring program was begun with this idea in mind I believe. A way to get advice on games from others without compromising your game plan.

In almost any escalating spoils game, the strategy of the stack is the way to go. For the most part anyway. Having 3 to 5 well placed stacks in diverse regions and building them up till the time of the end is definitely the way to go.
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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby jleonnn on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:01 am

Viceroy63 wrote:The only bad thing about posting the links to games that are in progress is that if your opponents also read this strategy forum then they now know what you intend to do. The mentoring program was begun with this idea in mind I believe. A way to get advice on games from others without compromising your game plan.

In almost any escalating spoils game, the strategy of the stack is the way to go. For the most part anyway. Having 3 to 5 well placed stacks in diverse regions and building them up till the time of the end is definitely the way to go.

Thanks! However, while having 3-5 well placed stacks in different regions works well in classic and classic style maps, it doesn't work in conquest maps like fuedal, WWII Poland and Peloponnesian. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)
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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby jleonnn on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:38 pm

Green seems to have taken advantage of the situation in the east... Oh well was fun while it lasted.
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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby Viceroy63 on Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:06 pm

You are correct in that I do not play as you say, "Conquest Style Maps." Perhaps you should start a thread explaining the difference in strategical approach and goals for the benefit of us who don't know or play those maps. That would be cool if you understand that strategy well.

To tell you the truth those complicated game maps with goals to reach and hold to win, intimidate the hell out of me. I just don't get it. Perhaps one day as I grow into them gradually. :)
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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby jleonnn on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:08 pm

Haha good luck with that! You really should try them it's pretty fun! But I'll have to start playing a bit more too cuz I don't know the strategy that well myself :P
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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby hunypowell on Tue Nov 27, 2012 8:49 pm

What is Peloponnesian?




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Re: Escalating Peloponnesian

Postby jleonnn on Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:12 pm

It's a map (Peloponnesian War)
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