Time Warp Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

[Iron Butterfly]

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

Beg pardon? He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote? You yourself suggested the possibility of a scum double voter yesterday, so I can't see you having a mind to doubt the possibility. That's not even accounting for the whole PM business, which is a serious breach of the rules and I'm surprised no warning or modkill was handed down.

At this point, it can't be denied that he's got a double vote with the vote on betiko, but he could still be scum (again, your own suggestion opens up that possibility). Granted, that doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't discount it. Unless, that is, you know something we don't. Matter of fact, it seems odd to me you're just willing to follow simply because his vote exists.



I stopped reading after your first sentence (well not really but you get the point "He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote?"

So The anon and I voted at the same time without collaboration. Yup makes perfect sense. Just blind luck...maybe ill hit lotto next. If the anon is a fellow mafia who "helped me" we would have to coordinate (and before we go further dont even try to suggest that if I did it with Betiko whats to stop me doing it again. It was poor judgement end of story) or he would have to guess.

If the anon vote is Town well then step forward and call me a liar so you can lynch me. They wont because if that happens I flip Town and one more mafia will go down next day.

@IB: You keep saying "when there was no need to". Why would you say there was no need? Scum always have need of town cred. That's ridiculous to suggest that there would be no value in bussing a scummate.

Ive explained this as well. You are comparing two completely different scenarios and trying to muddyy the waters further.

Town cred is all fine and dandy and does help, however there is a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. There is the right time to do it and a wrong time. It would be extremely poor strategy at this point of the game within the scenario we are speaking of. Why did you bring a bus driver into the mix, which has no bearing on the argument other then to confuse and misinterpret what happened?

[Iron Butterfly]

I screwed up the quote.

Read from halfway up the quote.

[Iron Butterfly]

Unvote Vote PCM

My anon stays for now, which shows I can split my vote as well.

[pancakemix]

I've acknowledged you have a double vote. I'm saying it doesn't mean you're town. With the NOS vote it wouldn't have to be dumb luck, because the theoretical vote owner could do what he darn well pleases.

I see very few downsides to advocating the lynch of a scummate you think isn't going to contribute. He's dead in the water at that point already. That's one good reason right there to do it apart from town cred. You see, you say it would be bad strategy to do this, but you don't elaborate on how.

I meant "bussing" in the sense of "throwing under the bus". Sorry for the confusion.

[jonty125]

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

Why PCM over vodean?

Okay jonty, good job, I didnt even realize I was skimming -_-. Also, I love how your case on me comes in when theres pressure on someone else. Lets finish our course of actions on this case before we move onto another, alright?

fastposted.

Does it really matter, when I post a case, we can discuss two things at once. If it's not good enough for now, we can comeback later.

[edocsil]

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

Beg pardon? He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote? You yourself suggested the possibility of a scum double voter yesterday, so I can't see you having a mind to doubt the possibility. That's not even accounting for the whole PM business, which is a serious breach of the rules and I'm surprised no warning or modkill was handed down.

At this point, it can't be denied that he's got a double vote with the vote on betiko, but he could still be scum (again, your own suggestion opens up that possibility). Granted, that doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't discount it. Unless, that is, you know something we don't. Matter of fact, it seems odd to me you're just willing to follow simply because his vote exists.

Yes, yes, IB did something foolish. He shouldn't have done it for formalities respect if nothing else. I agree that the PM was a serious infraction, but only worth a warning imo. You jumped on IB when the odds of him not being a double voter were slim to none, and you know that. I think it was a sloppy case, and indicative of you paying less attention here then you should. I have a few other META/WIFOMY reasons that I would like to pressure you in addition to the this action, but I can't cite them due to the fact that the conclusions are drawn from ongoing games.

Also, scum doublevoters are dicey for balance at best. You know this. I shouldn't have even implied that they could exist, I know better than that.

@ jonty Vodean doesn't know better, I expect him to do stupid retaliatory crap and jump on dumb wagons.

[Iron Butterfly]

I've acknowledged you have a double vote. I'm saying it doesn't mean you're town. With the NOS vote it wouldn't have to be dumb luck, because the theoretical vote owner could do what he darn well pleases.
It makes no sense whatsoever. You've acknowledged I'm a double voter but say that I could still be mafia. if you think I'm mafia then your logic dictates I threw Greg under the bus. If that is the case then why did you not participate with your suspicions about me being mafia UNTIL you became involved with the vote? You were dead silent up to that point.

I see very few downsides to advocating the lynch of a scummate you think isn't going to contribute. He's dead in the water at that point already. That's one good reason right there to do it apart from town cred. You see, you say it would be bad strategy to do this, but you don't elaborate on how.

I meant "bussing" in the sense of "throwing under the bus". Sorry for the confusion.

Greg was not dead in the water UNTIL I called him on his inactivity. He even said he was monitoring the game. He would have flown under the radar as Edocscil was lynched so its not like his ship was sinking and I jumped on him to look good. If I were mafia there would be no reason to throw Greg under the bus as Edocsil was most likely going to be lynched.

What I find scummy is you keep misrepresenting the information provided to make it into something it is not.

[Nendreel]

I'm going to have to agree with IB, I don't think he was throwing GW under a bus. The final vote count was 4 on GW and 3 on Edoc. IB could have reasonably unvoted without looking scummy and at the same time put edoc up for a chance lynch.

Although why GW didn't throw a vote on edoc is another mystery...

[pancakemix]

It makes no sense whatsoever. You've acknowledged I'm a double voter but say that I could still be mafia. if you think I'm mafia then your logic dictates I threw Greg under the bus. If that is the case then why did you not participate with your suspicions about me being mafia UNTIL you became involved with the vote? You were dead silent up to that point.

November 15th was a Thursday, I have class literally from 9 to 9 on Thursdays. I have very little time to dedicate to CC then. So no, I didn't have time to voice my concerns within a 24-hour period.

Greg was not dead in the water UNTIL I called him on his inactivity. He even said he was monitoring the game. He would have flown under the radar as Edocscil was lynched so its not like his ship was sinking and I jumped on him to look good. If I were mafia there would be no reason to throw Greg under the bus as Edocsil was most likely going to be lynched.

What I find scummy is you keep misrepresenting the information provided to make it into something it is not.

You may not have intended to throw him under initially. You might have just tried to get him to say something, at which point he made his own bed and you just rolled with it. Even just pressuring him into activity is a way to make you look good.

[soundman]

no soundman, it was 2,5 days left out of 7

and yeah what's up with nos.... he's trying very hard to be targeted skimming, never voting and openly scummarining?

No betiko, it wasn't. How about you go take another look? The vote count before my post clearly states that there were only two days until deadline. And you even posted right after the count saying almost the same thing I did! Here's the link to that vote count. http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=180800&start=75#p3955591

I'm going to wait, but IB, the way you played your double vote seems like a pile of bullcrap. Give a reasonable explanation, because i don't see any.

He gave his reason, what more could he say?

Vote Betiko. You have been skimming, posting illogical posts (at least IMO) and contradicting yourself.

Fastposted.

here is the timing of your post on my browser:
by soundman on 14 Nov 2012, 02:15
here is the timing of doom's deadline on my browser:
Postby DoomYoshi on 16 Nov 2012, 07:20

that's 2 days and 5h. A bit less than 2,5 days as I said and a bit more than 1,5 days as you said. Shall we call it even as I'm 7h wrong and you are 17h wrong?

Can you quote what you call skimming and posting illogical stuff appart from that "case" and where I have been contradicting myself? thank you!

Since you obviously can't use a link I'll quote the posts for you. Here is Doom's count where he clearly says two days left:

Vote Count
gregwolf121 (1) - pancakemix
Kanin Usagi (1) - edocsil
vodean (2) - ghostly447, betiko, edoc
Nendreel (1) - soundman
Ghostly (1) - new guy1
soundman (1) - Nendreel

Not Voting - Iron Butterfly, NoSurvivors, gregwolf121, vodean, jonty125, Kanin

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (or a majority at deadline).
Deadline is Thursday. (2 days left)

6 players without a vote.
This means 9 players agree to have vodean lynched on Thursday.

Now here is my post eight posts later:

Unvote. Well no one has done anything suspicious yet so that leaves us with a random lynch. It's looking like Vodean is going to be the target at this point. I say if he has an important role then he should claim.

What don't you understand about that? Clearly less than two days till deadline when I posted that. That is why I have you for skimming. Now here is the contradiction part:

Time is starting to slow down things.

we got 2 days left and obviously everyone is avoiding to say anything.. why not make vode claim instead of getting him lynched on thursday if things stay this way?

You say "why not have vodean claim?" right after the vote count. Then several posts later I said something very similar and now your on me for it. When you said the same thing!

[betiko]

no soundman, it was 2,5 days left out of 7

and yeah what's up with nos.... he's trying very hard to be targeted skimming, never voting and openly scummarining?

No betiko, it wasn't. How about you go take another look? The vote count before my post clearly states that there were only two days until deadline. And you even posted right after the count saying almost the same thing I did! Here's the link to that vote count. http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=180800&start=75#p3955591

I'm going to wait, but IB, the way you played your double vote seems like a pile of bullcrap. Give a reasonable explanation, because i don't see any.

He gave his reason, what more could he say?

Vote Betiko. You have been skimming, posting illogical posts (at least IMO) and contradicting yourself.

Fastposted.

here is the timing of your post on my browser:
by soundman on 14 Nov 2012, 02:15
here is the timing of doom's deadline on my browser:
Postby DoomYoshi on 16 Nov 2012, 07:20

that's 2 days and 5h. A bit less than 2,5 days as I said and a bit more than 1,5 days as you said. Shall we call it even as I'm 7h wrong and you are 17h wrong?

Can you quote what you call skimming and posting illogical stuff appart from that "case" and where I have been contradicting myself? thank you!

Since you obviously can't use a link I'll quote the posts for you. Here is Doom's count where he clearly says two days left:

Vote Count
gregwolf121 (1) - pancakemix
Kanin Usagi (1) - edocsil
vodean (2) - ghostly447, betiko, edoc
Nendreel (1) - soundman
Ghostly (1) - new guy1
soundman (1) - Nendreel

Not Voting - Iron Butterfly, NoSurvivors, gregwolf121, vodean, jonty125, Kanin

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (or a majority at deadline).
Deadline is Thursday. (2 days left)

6 players without a vote.
This means 9 players agree to have vodean lynched on Thursday.

Now here is my post eight posts later:

Unvote. Well no one has done anything suspicious yet so that leaves us with a random lynch. It's looking like Vodean is going to be the target at this point. I say if he has an important role then he should claim.

What don't you understand about that? Clearly less than two days till deadline when I posted that. That is why I have you for skimming. Now here is the contradiction part:

Time is starting to slow down things.

we got 2 days left and obviously everyone is avoiding to say anything.. why not make vode claim instead of getting him lynched on thursday if things stay this way?

You say "why not have vodean claim?" right after the vote count. Then several posts later I said something very similar and now your on me for it. When you said the same thing!

fucking hell, you just won't let go on your stupid comment will you? doom said 2 days because he was not going to say 2,4 days left or whatever, it was over 2 days not under 2 days and that's not even the point. We are both wrong on the timing since it's somewhere in between what we both said (even if I'm 10h closer than you..). Now will you stop cutting hair there because you are not getting anywhere there, I won't either.
The point is not that you wanted vodean to claim either, the point is that you wanted him t claim only if he had an important role which is very scummy in my opinion and in spite of your explanation. My vote stays.

[DoomYoshi]

Vote Count


NoSurvivors (1) - new guy1
soundman (2) - kanin usagi, betiko
Iron butterfly (1) - pancake
New guy (1) - jonty
pcm (1) - anon.

Not voting (1) - nendreel,

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is November 26th.

[ghostly447]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

[edocsil]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Well. That is quite curious.

[ghostly447]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Well. That is quite curious.

IMO, there wouldnt be 2 anon voters that were both town. There must be one for each day player that plays on their day, and a double voting mafia.

[betiko]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Well. That is quite curious.

no it's not. There was an anon on you yesterday and IB claims it wasn't him. If you believed IB completely how could you assume a second double voter would be impossible?

[betiko]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Well. That is quite curious.

IMO, there wouldnt be 2 anon voters that were both town. There must be one for each day player that plays on their day, and a double voting mafia.

or maybe the second double voter is a third party.

[ghostly447]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Well. That is quite curious.

IMO, there wouldnt be 2 anon voters that were both town. There must be one for each day player that plays on their day, and a double voting mafia.

or maybe the second double voter is a third party.

That is true.

[Iron Butterfly]

"Totally experimental. No guarantees about balance, or even playability."

I would watch how you use the word must as that means you are speaking in absolutes and have the answer. The above quote is Dooms disclaimer for this game. If you read it it is a pretty strong warning.

So do not try to even dictate what something "must" be in this game.

I saw there was another anon yesterday and stated when I claimed that that anon was not mine. So to me it makes perfect sense. Also remember that Greg was a vote supressor and that makes three vote manipulators we are aware of.

This is not a normal game so all theories about what can or can not be is moot as we have NO idea what roles or setup there is.

[soundman]

fucking hell, you just won't let go on your stupid comment will you? doom said 2 days because he was not going to say 2,4 days left or whatever, it was over 2 days not under 2 days and that's not even the point. We are both wrong on the timing since it's somewhere in between what we both said (even if I'm 10h closer than you..). Now will you stop cutting hair there because you are not getting anywhere there, I won't either.
The point is not that you wanted vodean to claim either, the point is that you wanted him t claim only if he had an important role which is very scummy in my opinion and in spite of your explanation. My vote stays.

Can you not read? Can you not think logically? Why should I let go when your vote is still on me?

You can not use any post after mine to justify the timing. It doesn't matter if it ended up being seven days until the day ended. The fact is at that point in time Doom said that there were two days left. As such when I made my post it was less than two days left. You get that? And I'm not the one that brought up this whole timing thing. YOU did. When you tried to use it as a point against me. As such I will continue to argue the point until you get it through your thick skull that you are wrong! Or until I just give up hope that you will see reason.

Second I already explained what I meant by saying "important role". Obviously by bringing it up now you skimmed my explanation. I'm not going to take the time to repeat it. Go back and look at it again. Also it would help if you worked on your grammar. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has trouble figuring out what you're saying.

[betiko]

fucking hell, you just won't let go on your stupid comment will you? doom said 2 days because he was not going to say 2,4 days left or whatever, it was over 2 days not under 2 days and that's not even the point. We are both wrong on the timing since it's somewhere in between what we both said (even if I'm 10h closer than you..). Now will you stop cutting hair there because you are not getting anywhere there, I won't either.
The point is not that you wanted vodean to claim either, the point is that you wanted him t claim only if he had an important role which is very scummy in my opinion and in spite of your explanation. My vote stays.

Can you not read? Can you not think logically? Why should I let go when your vote is still on me?

You can not use any post after mine to justify the timing. It doesn't matter if it ended up being seven days until the day ended. The fact is at that point in time Doom said that there were two days left. As such when I made my post it was less than two days left. You get that? And I'm not the one that brought up this whole timing thing. YOU did. When you tried to use it as a point against me. As such I will continue to argue the point until you get it through your thick skull that you are wrong! Or until I just give up hope that you will see reason.

Second I already explained what I meant by saying "important role". Obviously by bringing it up now you skimmed my explanation. I'm not going to take the time to repeat it. Go back and look at it again. Also it would help if you worked on your grammar. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has trouble figuring out what you're saying.

I'm not sure who's being stubborn and thick here. I'm not going back either on what I have already explained and that you fail to understand.
About my grammar, come back when you'll be able to express yourself in other languages. Expecting me to express myself as well as a born and raised anglophone as you all are proves your sense of empathy.

[pancakemix]

No need to question anyone's ability to think or speak. Keep it cool, guys.

Game relevant post to follow.

[pancakemix]

I must say, I find that anon vote on me interesting. It has a few implications, but the most important among them: IB isn't scum.

unvote

Still a mystery, however, is who is responsible for it. Do we think it's the same perso who voted edoc on D1?

[Kanin Usagi]

I must say, I find that anon vote on me interesting. It has a few implications, but the most important among them: IB isn't scum.

unvote

Still a mystery, however, is who is responsible for it. Do we think it's the same perso who voted edoc on D1?

Unless there's a third vote manipulator in play, then probably. But damn this game is confusing. V_V

[jonty125]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Pretty bold statment to make. I'd be surprised if mafia DIDN'T; as there seems to be a lot of vote manipulation roles.