Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

Suggestions that have not stood up to community review.

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Would you like to see an unranked option when creating games?

Yes
17
52%
No
11
33%
Dont care
5
15%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: Unrated games

Postby DiM on Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:47 pm

Chewie1 wrote:
Kaskavel wrote: Many top players do not dare play unknown settings.



Not really Top Players then are they!



you've hit the nail in the head.

if a player is good then he'll play anybody on any map and any setting and win.


i'd love to see unrated games BUT they should only be available to mapmakers for private testing of map gameplay ideas. due to the nature of testing many screwups could happen so there would be no point in having points on the table.
this would be the only situation where i'd agree with unrated games
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Re: Unrated games

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:16 pm

nicestash wrote:I am torn between 2 opinions here.

1) I would also like to play unrated games. I have school friends/friends from other games/family members that I like to play with in real time, but don't play very much other than that. Unfortunately, they aren't too interested in risk other than the occasional pick up game with me and so they have a very low rank and so it makes it nearly impossible for us to play. If I play and win a lot, I could easily get a ban for farming.

I guess it's hard to get banned for farming if you aren't farming. And what you are describing is not farming. It's not even the invitation abuse that GLG was found guilty of.

nicestash wrote:If I play and I lose-well I'm down a lot of points. I've just decided to play the safe route and not play them anymore.

And that makes it impossible how?
nicestash wrote:2) If a rule is set in place like Kaskavel asked, CC would go WAY downhill. Players would ONLY play games on settings that they are guaranteed to win which would result in a dramatic decrease in the integrity of the scoreboard: it would turn into a contest by the best players to see who could get more people to join their specialized settings and lose points.

Duh.
nicestash wrote:I can think of 2 compromises that could work.
1) Significantly limit the number of unscored games a person could play. Perhaps it could be 1 unscored game for every 10 scored games someone finishes, or a limit of 10 a month.
2) Only allow speed games to be unscored. I dislike this second option though because I love playing doodle games and making them unscored would ruin the fun.

I don't understand. Do you play for fun or points? Earlier you said you could lose against your friends and that's why you don't play them. If that's the case, do you not have fun playing your friends? I'd look for new friends...
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Re: Unrated games

Postby nicestash on Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:24 pm

chapcrap wrote:
nicestash wrote:I can think of 2 compromises that could work.
1) Significantly limit the number of unscored games a person could play. Perhaps it could be 1 unscored game for every 10 scored games someone finishes, or a limit of 10 a month.
2) Only allow speed games to be unscored. I dislike this second option though because I love playing doodle games and making them unscored would ruin the fun.

I don't understand. Do you play for fun or points? Earlier you said you could lose against your friends and that's why you don't play them. If that's the case, do you not have fun playing your friends? I'd look for new friends...


I play for fun, but gaining points is part of that. If you play soccer on a team that always loses, it's just not as fun. Despite the fact that you might play soccer because it's fun, the single act of losing ruins it for you. People are innately competitive; we strive to succeed.

I would compare a Broaden Your Horizons day to playing a friendly, unscored game of soccer. Your team might not be as good as the other one, but as long as it is fairly competitive, no one cares. There's no feeling of despair as the clock winds down and no need to get upset over an unlucky break. It's simply cool, laid-back, and relaxed.
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Re: Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

Postby agentcom on Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:51 pm

Identical topics MERGED and thread STICKIED for moderator and user ease. Explanatory Introduction added to OP.
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practice

Postby c c on Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:07 pm

there should be a option to place your self on a map by your self so that you can practice on it prior to play with other players . I believe that this would eliminate players dropping out due to there lack of understanding a map and enhance the joy of a game rather than the frustration of not understanding the moves,play or concept to a map .
Last edited by chapcrap on Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: practice

Postby sempaispellcheck on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:00 pm

This seems to me to be a really good idea.
The problem is, it would probably be very hard to implement for at least a couple of reasons:

1) Not having opponents would probably require some kind of AI player.
2) These practice games would, ideally, involve no loss or gain of points.

Both of these seem to me like they would not be very easy to code.

That said, this is a really good idea. It would, if done right, reduce the number of players who leave after short periods of time and also reduce players' ability to "farm" new recruits.

Then again, multis who might otherwise be busted as having "knowledge beyond their experience," so to speak, might be written off as having played a lot of practice games - and players who play a lot of practice games before playing real games might be reported for being multis.

So, I'm for it, overall, but curious to know what others think.
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Re: pratice

Postby greenoaks on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:23 pm

your score reflects the games you have played, all of them.

practice games allow you to greatly increase your skill on a map and then gain far more points then you would have because now you will win more games than a beginner yet receive the points as though you were still one.
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Re: pratice

Postby sempaispellcheck on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:14 pm

greenoaks wrote:your score reflects the games you have played, all of them.


So maybe the AI player (if that's how it's done) could be assigned some arbitrary score, say 1000?

greenoaks wrote:practice games allow you to greatly increase your skill on a map and then gain far more points then you would have because now you will win more games than a beginner yet receive the points as though you were still one.

Yes, but if you replace "you" with "everyone" it's a lot fairer than that.
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Re: pratice

Postby greenoaks on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:39 pm

sempaispellcheck wrote:
greenoaks wrote:practice games allow you to greatly increase your skill on a map and then gain far more points then you would have because now you will win more games than a beginner yet receive the points as though you were still one.

Yes, but if you replace "you" with "everyone" it's a lot fairer than that.

but that's just it, not everyone will practice and those that do wont to the same extent.

it will allow those that care to become really good at a map without the natural loss of points. perfect for high ranks to never play a lower ranked again until they have completely mastered the map and can be assured victory every game ie. farming GLG style.
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Re: pratice

Postby sempaispellcheck on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:34 am

What if we limit it to, say, 5 practice games per player per map? Do you think that might work?
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Re: pratice

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:36 am

greenoaks wrote:your score reflects the games you have played, all of them.

practice games allow you to greatly increase your skill on a map and then gain far more points then you would have because now you will win more games than a beginner yet receive the points as though you were still one.


Yes, and practicing chess with a friend at home allows you to greatly increase your chess skill and then go to a tournament and gain far more points than you would have. Is this unfair? Should people be banned from practicing competitive games?

Of course not. That extra point gain would only happen once, at which point you would equilibrate to a rating reflecting your actual skill level.

it will allow those that care to become really good at a map without the natural loss of points. perfect for high ranks to never play a lower ranked again until they have completely mastered the map and can be assured victory every game ie. farming GLG style.


People who put in that much dedication to learning a map should be the ones who have the high ranks. Why would we want to punish people who try really hard to perfect their skill?
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Re: pratice

Postby greenoaks on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:24 am

this has been suggested and rejected numerous times.
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Re: pratice

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:20 am

greenoaks wrote:this has been suggested and rejected numerous times.


It has been suggested and let die numerous times. This is one of those suggestions that has fallen into the feedback loop where, because it was already sent to rejected, people just say "it's been rejected" and let it die without talking about why. If you look at the collated topic in Rejected, something like the first 10 pages goes by without even a single coherent argument against the suggestion.
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Re: pratice

Postby chapcrap on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:43 am

The difference between practicing chess at home and CC at home is that chess is universal and the same everywhere. These maps are not.

People CAN practice Risk at home on the Classic style map (and a few other Hasbro specialty maps), but they can't practice Stalingrad and Das Schloss and things like that at home because they only exist here.

In my opinion, I would not have a problem with this if it were done from the beginning, but changing it in the middle takes away from all the players that have already had to risk points on unknown maps because they were not able to practice it first. If I were going to get behind this suggestion, I would need to see some kind of limitations. Like only available on Classic or only available 1 time per map. Unlimited usage on unlimited maps would be a no from me.
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Re: pratice

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:08 am

chapcrap wrote:In my opinion, I would not have a problem with this if it were done from the beginning, but changing it in the middle takes away from all the players that have already had to risk points on unknown maps because they were not able to practice it first. If I were going to get behind this suggestion, I would need to see some kind of limitations. Like only available on Classic or only available 1 time per map. Unlimited usage on unlimited maps would be a no from me.


Nobody forced them to risk points on unknown maps. If they wanted to be protective of their points, they could have stuck to maps that they knew. We shouldn't continue to make a bad decision because of bad decisions that were made in the past.
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Re: pratice

Postby chapcrap on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:10 am

What makes it a bad decision?
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Re: pratice

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:23 am

chapcrap wrote:What makes it a bad decision?


Mainly that it excludes a whole host of opportunities to play games without the pressure of points. For some reason, a number of people in the old threads enforced this mentality that you either play for points, or you don't care about points. But that's not true. Sometimes I want to play for points (if I'm playing on maps that I'm experienced at, and I want to test my mettle against other people who are experienced) and sometimes I don't (if I'm playing on unfamiliar maps). I want to have the fun of playing these other maps, without risking my reputation on the maps that I care about. I have avoided a whole lot of maps for this reason, but I would try out a whole lot more of the maps we have if I weren't risking points to do so.
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Re: pratice

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:55 pm

While I too have my reservations about this idea, they are self-interested and therefore shouldn't count. Of course it would be hard to take if a cook beats me badly on a map but hey, if he's better at the game than me, so be it. I think the rating system is somewhat bunk anyway so something like this could be quite refreshing. Point hoarders would cry bloody murder but I think the overall effect of this would be a more accurate reflection of the skill level of every player and who can object to that? I am in favor of this one.

P.S.- OP, please correct the spelling of the title?
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Re: practice

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:20 pm

I've been thinking about this suggestion and I really want it. These old crusty players with their "favorite" maps and setting are getting tiresome. Would be nice to practice some cryptic map a little instead of having to learn against a point hoarder, making him/her just a little bit fatter. Besides, I don't think that people would practice until they completely mastered a map, just until they were comfortable enough to not make completely noobish moves on it. The people who were really good at a map would still reign superior.
Also, this would make it more fun to play against a friend to prevent bad blood due to loss of points. Did I mention I like this suggestion?
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Re: practice

Postby agentcom on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:10 pm

I agree that this particular suggestion would be pretty difficult because it would either require AI or maybe an option to allow you to fill up all the game slots yourself. I think it's a better suggestion than the one to allow no-points practice games against others even though I think that suggestion would be easier to implement. But to briefly rehash the argument against no points games and to respond to metsfan, I think there is a good reason not to allow practice games:

The system is currently set up so that you have to choose between hoarding points and playing lots of different maps and settings--what a lot of people would refer to as having fun on this site. I like that. I wouldn't want the Conqueror who plays nothing buy City Mogul against noobs to also be able to play whatever maps they want for free. This is totally a matter of personal preference, but I like that those that are high on the scoreboard have to be dedicated to the pursuit of points. I respect the guys who have been able to do that even if it was by gaining a handful of points at a time in exchange for winning 90% of their games. That takes effort.

For those of you that want to discuss the no points option further, that topic is here.
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Re: practice

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:29 pm

agentcom wrote:I agree that this particular suggestion would be pretty difficult because it would either require AI or maybe an option to allow you to fill up all the game slots yourself. I think it's a better suggestion than the one to allow no-points practice games against others even though I think that suggestion would be easier to implement. But to briefly rehash the argument against no points games and to respond to metsfan, I think there is a good reason not to allow practice games:

The system is currently set up so that you have to choose between hoarding points and playing lots of different maps and settings--what a lot of people would refer to as having fun on this site. I like that. I wouldn't want the Conqueror who plays nothing buy City Mogul against noobs to also be able to play whatever maps they want for free. This is totally a matter of personal preference, but I like that those that are high on the scoreboard have to be dedicated to the pursuit of points. I respect the guys who have been able to do that even if it was by gaining a handful of points at a time in exchange for winning 90% of their games. That takes effort.

For those of you that want to discuss the no points option further, that topic is here.


The no-points thread is in rejected, nobody is going to see it.

I like this Idea of no points games I think more for the option of playing your friends without either of you losing points. I don't like to take points from my friends but I will never just let someone win. It would be nice to have guilt-free games against my m8s.
As far as making people choose between points vs. variety of maps, I don't think this is good for membership. People want more options and that is pretty much universal so if your priorities are making the site more successful you will go this route.
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Re: practice

Postby greenoaks on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:36 pm

but you can have guilt free games against your m8s. we are not stopping you.
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Re: practice

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:09 pm

greenoaks wrote:but you can have guilt free games against your m8s. we are not stopping you.


Talk to the hand, greenoaks. :P
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Re: Unrated, Unranked, or No Points Games [REJECTED]

Postby chapcrap on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:20 pm

MERGED a few.
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POINTless Training games

Postby nicestash on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:36 pm

POINTless Training games]
-Ability to have games where no points are gained/lost


Details
-THESE GAMES CAN ONLY BE MADE THROUGH THE SoC (and as such can only be used for training purposes)

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
There are quite a few players on CC who are obsessed with their ranking to the point where they refuse to play any map against any players where they have the possibility of losing. About a year ago, blitzkrieg was banned for farming after inviting inexperienced games onto his custom map/settings. His defense was that he was trying to teach those players how to play. It held up until someone asked him why he hadn't trained players in SoC. The answer? He didn't want to lose a boatload of points playing on a team with people who were just as likely to deadbeat. If it was possible to play pointless games through the SoC, I'm guessing a lot of the top players on the scoreboard would be more than willing to teach these players lessons-if only to finally have some fun.

Before you blast me, check out my game load. I'm playing numerous 1v1s and could care less about my points; I'm not trying to "finally have fun again without losing my precious rank", indeed I doubt if I would become an SoC trainer myself. And once again, these games should be limited to SoC training games.
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