Obama - The Second Four Years

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Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:53 pm

In an effort to direct most US political discussion to one thread, I am creating this thread to further discussion about the president and his policies. I will be occasionally posting items related to the president. However, the items I post will only be with respect to laws he's signed, orders he's given, or policies he's enacted. I will not be posting anything about his college transcripts, birth certificates, class warfare rhetoric, or any other crap.

I hope to show that Barack Obama is and will be a good [deleted] conservative, 1990s Republican president.

Let's have a recap of the first three years and change:

Economic Laws and Policies

- Signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act - revised the statute of limitations for filing pay discrimination lawsuits.
- Signed the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act - the first bailout, which was a combination of tax breaks, infrastructure projects, welfare extensions, and education. Cost - $787 billion and $1.2 trillion with debt service included.
- Proposed new regulations on power plants, factories and oil refineries to limit greenhouse gas emissions.
- Signed the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act, which ends the process of government giving subsidies to banks to give out federally insured loans; increased the Pell Grant scholarship awards.
- Introduced the Public-Private Investment Program for Legacy Assets, which contains provisions for buying up to $2 trillion in depreciated real estate assets.
- Renewed loans for GM and Chrysler to continue operations.
- Signed the Car Allowance Rebate System (cash for clunkers).
- Signed the Budget Control Act of 2011, which limits distrectionary spending until 2021, establishes procedures to increase the debt limit, creates a congressional committee on debt reduction.
- Signed the Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010, which included a temporary extension of the Bush tax cuts, a payroll tax reduction, continuation of unemployment benefits, and a new estate tax rate and exemption amount.
- Signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which expands Medicaid eligibility, susidizes insurance premiums, provides incentives for companies to provide healthcare benefits, prohibits denial of coverage and claims on pre-existing conditions, establishes health insurance exchanges, prohibits annual coverage caps, and supports medical research; includes taxes, fees, and cost-saving measures including Medicare taxes, taxes on indoor tanning, cuts to the Medicare Advantage program, the medical device excise tax, and penalties for those who do not obtain health insurance. Immediately and continuously obtained waivers for certain companies.

Social Laws and Policies

- Lifted restrictions on embryonic stem cell research.
- Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Hate Crimes Prevention Act which expands hate crimes to include crimes motivated by actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability.
- Signed the repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell

Foreign Policy

- Suspended the Gitmo Military Commission and ordered the detention facility to be shut down (Congressional inaction resulted in the facility not being closed).
- Banned torture in the interrogation of terror suspects.
- Signed the New START treaty on reducing the number of long-range nuclear weapons.
- Ordered the exit of the last U.S. combat brigade in Iraq on August 19, 2010
- Increased troops in Afghanistan.
- Increased military cooperation with Israel, including military aid, the reestablishment of the US-Israeli Joint Political Military Group, and the Defense Policy Advisory Group; vetoed a UN Security Council resolution condemning Israeli settlements.
- Ordered air strikes in Libya.
- Ordered the killing of Osama bin Laden.

Other Laws and Policies

- Announced stricter guidelines for lobbyists in the White House. Immediately requested a waiver for certain appointments.
- Appointed two Supreme Court justices.
Last edited by thegreekdog on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:06 pm

I'm breaking my first rule already, but I find this hysterical.

Incredibly, nearly all the most senior advisors to the nation’s first black president – whose appeal to minorities and women won him reelection – are white males. Democrats made much during the campaign of an alleged GOP “war on women.” But Obama’s own battalions include relatively few of the distaff variety.

Of what are arguably the ten top most important White House advisers, only one – Senior Advisor Valerie Jarrett – is a woman. Jarrett is also African American.

But the other nine are each white men: Vice President Joe Biden; Senior Advisor David Plouffe; Chief of Staff Jack Lew; National Security Advisor Tom Donilon; Counselor to the President Pete Rouse; National Economic Council Director Gene Sperling; Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer; Acting OMB Director Jeffrey Zients; and Press Secretary Jay Carney.


http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2012/1 ... Dossier%29
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:57 pm

Just you wait, TGD, I heard Common was going to be joining his cabinet, if the Republicans don't try to stop him.


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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby InkL0sed on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:59 pm

I don't understand why you call him Republican. I understand you think he's a moderate conservative (and I have no problem with that because that's a relative term), but not a Republican. He advocates policies which the Republicans vigorously oppose. He leads the Democratic Party. That pretty much makes him objectively a Democrat.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:17 pm

InkL0sed wrote:I don't understand why you call him Republican. I understand you think he's a moderate conservative (and I have no problem with that because that's a relative term), but not a Republican. He advocates policies which the Republicans vigorously oppose. He leads the Democratic Party. That pretty much makes him objectively a Democrat.


I call him a Republican for two reasons. First, he is a moderate conservative in the vein of the 1990s Republican party (i.e. pre-Bush, pre-Tea Party). Second, the Republicans oppose most of his policies merely because they are his policies and not because those policies are antithetical to Republican ideals.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby comic boy on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:25 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:I don't understand why you call him Republican. I understand you think he's a moderate conservative (and I have no problem with that because that's a relative term), but not a Republican. He advocates policies which the Republicans vigorously oppose. He leads the Democratic Party. That pretty much makes him objectively a Democrat.


I call him a Republican for two reasons. First, he is a moderate conservative in the vein of the 1990s Republican party (i.e. pre-Bush, pre-Tea Party). Second, the Republicans oppose most of his policies merely because they are his policies and not because those policies are antithetical to Republican ideals.


Given that the current Republican party appears to be veering further right would it not be more accurate to describe Obama as an old school Republican.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Frigidus on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:02 pm

comic boy wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:I don't understand why you call him Republican. I understand you think he's a moderate conservative (and I have no problem with that because that's a relative term), but not a Republican. He advocates policies which the Republicans vigorously oppose. He leads the Democratic Party. That pretty much makes him objectively a Democrat.


I call him a Republican for two reasons. First, he is a moderate conservative in the vein of the 1990s Republican party (i.e. pre-Bush, pre-Tea Party). Second, the Republicans oppose most of his policies merely because they are his policies and not because those policies are antithetical to Republican ideals.


Given that the current Republican party appears to be veering further right would it not be more accurate to describe Obama as an old school Republican.


Sure. Here's a brief list of acceptable ways to describe Obama:

Borderline Neoconservative
George Bush minus the Christian extremism
Big business toady
Part of the problem
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby InkL0sed on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:13 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:I don't understand why you call him Republican. I understand you think he's a moderate conservative (and I have no problem with that because that's a relative term), but not a Republican. He advocates policies which the Republicans vigorously oppose. He leads the Democratic Party. That pretty much makes him objectively a Democrat.


I call him a Republican for two reasons. First, he is a moderate conservative in the vein of the 1990s Republican party (i.e. pre-Bush, pre-Tea Party). Second, the Republicans oppose most of his policies merely because they are his policies and not because those policies are antithetical to Republican ideals.


Republicans are still Republicans, and Democrats are still Democrats. You're just using terms differently to make a point. So it's not actually interesting for you to say he's a Republican. What you mean is he is conservative.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:20 pm

InkL0sed wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:I don't understand why you call him Republican. I understand you think he's a moderate conservative (and I have no problem with that because that's a relative term), but not a Republican. He advocates policies which the Republicans vigorously oppose. He leads the Democratic Party. That pretty much makes him objectively a Democrat.


I call him a Republican for two reasons. First, he is a moderate conservative in the vein of the 1990s Republican party (i.e. pre-Bush, pre-Tea Party). Second, the Republicans oppose most of his policies merely because they are his policies and not because those policies are antithetical to Republican ideals.


Republicans are still Republicans, and Democrats are still Democrats. You're just using terms differently to make a point. So it's not actually interesting for you to say he's a Republican. What you mean is he is conservative.


Okay. I'll refer to him as a conservative instead of a Republican. That's a fair criticisim.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Johnny Rockets on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:51 am

thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:I don't understand why you call him Republican. I understand you think he's a moderate conservative (and I have no problem with that because that's a relative term), but not a Republican. He advocates policies which the Republicans vigorously oppose. He leads the Democratic Party. That pretty much makes him objectively a Democrat.


I call him a Republican for two reasons. First, he is a moderate conservative in the vein of the 1990s Republican party (i.e. pre-Bush, pre-Tea Party). Second, the Republicans oppose most of his policies merely because they are his policies and not because those policies are antithetical to Republican ideals.


Republicans are still Republicans, and Democrats are still Democrats. You're just using terms differently to make a point. So it's not actually interesting for you to say he's a Republican. What you mean is he is conservative.


Okay. I'll refer to him as a conservative instead of a Republican. That's a fair criticisim.


I don't comprehend why you guys need to label your politicians categorically. The issues, and effective solutions are never black and white, so detesting a policy because it's conservative, or too Liberal should come way past the consideration of if it is effective or not.
The refusal to work together, (Both parties) and the climate of political xenophobia over policy implementation is why you guys are fucked solid.

Time to work in the Now.


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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:57 am

Johnny Rockets wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:I don't understand why you call him Republican. I understand you think he's a moderate conservative (and I have no problem with that because that's a relative term), but not a Republican. He advocates policies which the Republicans vigorously oppose. He leads the Democratic Party. That pretty much makes him objectively a Democrat.


I call him a Republican for two reasons. First, he is a moderate conservative in the vein of the 1990s Republican party (i.e. pre-Bush, pre-Tea Party). Second, the Republicans oppose most of his policies merely because they are his policies and not because those policies are antithetical to Republican ideals.


Republicans are still Republicans, and Democrats are still Democrats. You're just using terms differently to make a point. So it's not actually interesting for you to say he's a Republican. What you mean is he is conservative.


Okay. I'll refer to him as a conservative instead of a Republican. That's a fair criticisim.


I don't comprehend why you guys need to label your politicians categorically. The issues, and effective solutions are never black and white, so detesting a policy because it's conservative, or too Liberal should come way past the consideration of if it is effective or not.
The refusal to work together, (Both parties) and the climate of political xenophobia over policy implementation is why you guys are fucked solid.

Time to work in the Now.


JRock


I'm responding to the labels from conservatives (e.g. Phatscotty) that the president is a socialist/Marxist/liberal and from liberals that the president is a defender of personal freedom and social liberal. These are incorrect characterizations.

The refusal to work together is fake in its reasons, by the way. For example, this fiscal cliff issue is just crap. Both parties are essentially the same, with some minor differences related to somewhat inconsequential issues. You've bought into the idea that there is a substantial difference between the two parties when there isn't. The only reason there is fighting between the political parties is to see who can get the most power and therefore the most money.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:17 am

TGD wrote:You've bought into the idea that there is a substantial difference between the two parties when there isn't.


Why should anyone care whether there is a difference between the two parties? Political decisions are made by individuals, not by political parties, and blaming anything on the political party structure absolves congresspeople from responsibility for their actions. And there are real differences between individuals. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney do have substantially different ideas about the country and how to run it. The fact that it is not a socialist running against a libertarian does not make the differences any less stark.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:44 am

Agree 110% with what TGD just said.

Besides, I still fail to understand why parties working together is a desirable thing. If Chevron and Exxon worked together to set gas prices or a defense attorney and prosecutor worked together in court people would end up in prison. The term for all members of parliament working in unison to pass the same bills is "one party state." And, besides, there are plenty of examples of bills passed with cooperation of both parties: the Patriot Act, FISA, NDAA, etc. Democracy should be based on vigorous competition, not vigorous cooperation.

    On a related note, here's a great clip I've cued from yesterday's DoS daily briefing in which Obama flunky Victoria Nuland squirms like a snake when the AP's Matt Lee asks her if "a U.S. citizen invited to a U.S. embassy has any legal protection against being killed by the U.S. government when they arrive." - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxWpNepntTk&t=38m20s (Earlier in the video Lee also roasts her over Obama's Islamaphobia.)


metsfanmax wrote:Barack Obama and Mitt Romney do have substantially cosmetically different ideas about the country and how to run it.


fixed

The Democrats of 2012 are one of the great triumphs of the Republican Party.

After Democrats were decimated to the point of extinction in 2004 they had to radically remake themselves just to survive and - unable to shake Republican framing - made a hard-turn to the right. Parties exist to advance their ideas, not their logos. To get moderate and center-left voters to enthusiastically vote for right-wing candidates like Wal Mart board member Hillary Clinton and her cobwebby, old lady vagina had to be one of the most brilliant Republican victories ever.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:43 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
TGD wrote:You've bought into the idea that there is a substantial difference between the two parties when there isn't.


Why should anyone care whether there is a difference between the two parties? Political decisions are made by individuals, not by political parties, and blaming anything on the political party structure absolves congresspeople from responsibility for their actions. And there are real differences between individuals. Barack Obama and Mitt Romney do have substantially different ideas about the country and how to run it. The fact that it is not a socialist running against a libertarian does not make the differences any less stark.


In order to be elected, individuals must side with a particular political party. And they must be beholden to the "ideas" of that particular political party. If they disagree, they are summarily tossed (e.g. Dennis Kucinich). There are exceptions, of course, but I don't know how you can look at the political system in the United States and not see a large problem with our two major political parties and the control they wield.

The president and Romney made rhetoric-laced comments about the economic state of the country and the social state of the country. The president's actions in his first administration (see above) were almost entirely different than his rhetoric during his first and second presidential campaigns. Similarly, Mitt Romney's rhetoric was entirely different than his actions as governor. The foreign policy debate was a fucking joke; they agreed on everything.

I don't mind that a Republican runs against a Democrat. There are some differences (e.g. rhetoric about abortion, rhetoric about rich and poor, rhetoric about over or under regulation). But it is all rhetoric.

What I mind is that those are the only two real choices and that choice isn't as stark as it needs to be. It's like wanting to choose a place to eat and having only two choices: Burger King and McDonald's. Is there a difference? Sure. But it's not a big one.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:54 am

TGD, I tried writing you in for President when I voted in the fall (your Vice was Metsfanmax) on one of my supplementary voter fraud ballots, but I don't think you both won.


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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:38 pm

thegreekdog wrote:What I mind is that those are the only two real choices and that choice isn't as stark as it needs to be. It's like wanting to choose a place to eat and having only two choices: Burger King and McDonald's. Is there a difference? Sure. But it's not a big one.


The American public is fairly centrist in its views. Having someone who ran starkly to the left or right wouldn't particularly represent the population as a whole, so unless there is a mood shift in the voting population, the choices we have won't change, and they won't differ by much. If the dispersion from the center were larger, we could expect to see more radical candidates, but the lack of choice is our fault, not the political parties' fault.

saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Viceroy63 on Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:21 pm

Yup; Obama suckered all them Democrats into voting Republican. Will wonders never cease?

They still believe that our troops are coming home soon. Muaaa Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:19 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:TGD, I tried writing you in for President when I voted in the fall (your Vice was Metsfanmax) on one of my supplementary voter fraud ballots, but I don't think you both won.


--Andy


But did you have to give identification (supported by both Republicans and Democrats depending on who is more likely to win if voter identification was available)?

Metsfanmax wrote:The American public is fairly centrist in its views. Having someone who ran starkly to the left or right wouldn't particularly represent the population as a whole, so unless there is a mood shift in the voting population, the choices we have won't change, and they won't differ by much. If the dispersion from the center were larger, we could expect to see more radical candidates, but the lack of choice is our fault, not the political parties' fault.


If you polled the standard Democrat and the standard Republican, you'd get vastly different answers on what they think the country could go. If you hooked Barack and Mittens up to lie detectors and asked them the same questions, you'd get very similar answers. The lack of choice is our fault, but not because of our political viewpoints.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:35 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.


If enacting a 20% increase in funds for the NIH's Center for Complementary Medicine - putting their monies to an historic high of $140,000,000 over the objections of virtually every medical school dean in America (the widely ridiculed program of the NIH that gives research grants for pseudoscience like energy healing, bee sting healing, "spirit medicine" and homeopathy) makes the Democrats the party of science, then please count me as part of the anti-science crowd.

Some time ago, ol' Saxi briefly worked as the ship's doctor on a tramp freighter plying the route between Mozambique and Sri Lanka. I got sea sick easily so spent most of the voyage drunk on charcoal-filtered vodka. In one port I stumbled off and got a tattoo, bought 4 hookah pipes and spent $500 on an amputee hooker. Don't mistake Saxi's penchant for spending like a drunken sailor as passionate advocacy for the tattoo, hookah and amputee sex-worker industries.
Last edited by saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby thegreekdog on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:39 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.


If enacting a 20% increase in funds for the NIH's Center for Complementary Medicine - putting their monies to an historic high of $140,000,000 over the objections of virtually every medical school dean in America (the widely ridiculed program of the NIH that gives research grants for pseudoscience like energy healing, bee sting healing, "spirit medicine" and homeopathy) makes the Democrats the party of science, then please count me as part of the anti-science crowd.


I guess Mets is probably talking about stem cell research. That's one difference between Obama and the New, More Conservative Mitt Romney I suppose.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:45 pm

saxitoxin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.


If enacting a 20% increase in funds for the NIH's Center for Complementary Medicine - putting their monies to an historic high of $140,000,000 over the objections of virtually every medical school dean in America (the widely ridiculed program of the NIH that gives research grants for pseudoscience like energy healing, bee sting healing, "spirit medicine" and homeopathy) makes the Democrats the party of science, then please count me as part of the anti-science crowd.

Some time ago, ol' Saxi briefly worked as the ship's doctor on a tramp freighter plying the route between Mozambique and Sri Lanka. I got sea sick easily so spent most of the voyage drunk on charcoal-filtered vodka. In one port I stumbled off and got a tattoo, bought 4 hookah pipes and spent $500 on an amputee hooker. Don't mistake Saxi's penchant for spending like a drunken sailor as passionate advocacy for the tattoo, hookah and amputee sex-worker industries.


I'm not defending the Democrats as the party of science. I'm calling the Republicans the anti-science party. The Democrats don't do nearly as poorly in responding to objective scientific issues, probably mostly because of how their base feels and not necessarily because of how the congresspeople themselves feel. Nevertheless, the reason is irrelevant to my conclusion that it's a lot easier to support Democrats on scientific and social issues.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:52 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:saxi: the major difference between the two parties exists on non-economic issues. I cannot support the anti-science party.


If enacting a 20% increase in funds for the NIH's Center for Complementary Medicine - putting their monies to an historic high of $140,000,000 over the objections of virtually every medical school dean in America (the widely ridiculed program of the NIH that gives research grants for pseudoscience like energy healing, bee sting healing, "spirit medicine" and homeopathy) makes the Democrats the party of science, then please count me as part of the anti-science crowd.

Some time ago, ol' Saxi briefly worked as the ship's doctor on a tramp freighter plying the route between Mozambique and Sri Lanka. I got sea sick easily so spent most of the voyage drunk on charcoal-filtered vodka. In one port I stumbled off and got a tattoo, bought 4 hookah pipes and spent $500 on an amputee hooker. Don't mistake Saxi's penchant for spending like a drunken sailor as passionate advocacy for the tattoo, hookah and amputee sex-worker industries.


I'm not defending the Democrats as the party of science. I'm calling the Republicans the anti-science party. The Democrats don't do nearly as poorly in responding to objective scientific issues, probably mostly because of how their base feels and not necessarily because of how the congresspeople themselves feel. Nevertheless, the reason is irrelevant to my conclusion that it's a lot easier to support Democrats on scientific and social issues.


By not only funding - but increasing funding - for the NIH CCAM, the Democrats are helping Americans make uninformed and, in many cases, dangerous choices regarding healthcare based on federally funded propagation of pseudoscientific witchcraft.

The fact that the Democrats are willing to spend on absolutely everything under the sun - and occasionally a dollar or two drops into NASA or whatever your favorite pet project is - does not mean they are responsive to "objective scientific issues." The cause of science is set backwards by $10 for every $1 of funding that gets allocated on studies into Pranic Healing because the leader of the Pranic cult gave $100,000 to the chair of the Senate Labor & Health Committee.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:59 pm

saxitoxin wrote:By not only funding - but increasing funding - for the NIH CCAM, the Democrats are helping Americans make uninformed and, in many cases, dangerous choices regarding healthcare based on federally funded propagation of pseudoscientific witchcraft.

The fact that the Democrats are willing to spend on absolutely everything under the sun - and occasionally a dollar or two drops into NASA or whatever your favorite pet project is - does not mean they are responsive to "objective scientific issues." The cause of science is set backwards by $10 for every $1 of funding that gets allocated on studies into Pranic Healing because the leader of the Pranic cult gave $100,000 to the chair of the Senate Labor & Health Committee.


The amount of funding going the Center for Complementary Medicine is a drop in the bucket compared to the total NIH funding ($30,860,000,000). The budget of NASA is of the same order of magnitude (just under $20 billion). Get your figures straight.
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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:18 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:By not only funding - but increasing funding - for the NIH CACM, the Democrats are helping Americans make uninformed and, in many cases, dangerous choices regarding healthcare based on federally funded propagation of pseudoscientific witchcraft.

The fact that the Democrats are willing to spend on absolutely everything under the sun - and occasionally a dollar or two drops into NASA or whatever your favorite pet project is - does not mean they are responsive to "objective scientific issues." The cause of science is set backwards by $10 for every $1 of funding that gets allocated on studies into Pranic Healing because the leader of the Pranic cult gave $100,000 to the chair of the Senate Labor & Health Committee.


The amount of funding going the Center for Complementary Medicine is a drop in the bucket compared to the total NIH funding ($30,860,000,000). The budget of NASA is of the same order of magnitude (just under $20 billion). Get your figures straight.


1. Which of my figures were wrong?

2. As stated previously, CACM is an example of one in a myriad of instances of U.S.-Gov funding of junk and pseudoscience.

3. Obama healthcare advisor and Pranic Healing advocate Joie Jones (whose own research was so outlandish that even CACM wouldn't fund it - he had to get a "research grant" from the Pranic Healing cult) also supports the so-called goals of rational, scientific inquiry of the Democrat Party. Here's "Grand Master" Steve Co - the head of the Pranic Healing cult - teaching a new group of pranic "doctors." For just $299 (lunch included) you can go to an 8-hour seminar at the Holiday Inn to learn how to cure cancer by waving your hands over someone. Have cancer of the tits? Under Obamacare, you can now go to this guy to get it cured. (seriously)

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Re: Obama - The Second Four Years

Postby Lootifer on Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:02 pm

saxitoxin wrote:Agree 110% with what TGD just said.

Besides, I still fail to understand why parties working together is a desirable thing. If Chevron and Exxon worked together to set gas prices or a defense attorney and prosecutor worked together in court people would end up in prison. The term for all members of parliament working in unison to pass the same bills is "one party state." And, besides, there are plenty of examples of bills passed with cooperation of both parties: the Patriot Act, FISA, NDAA, etc. Democracy should be based on vigorous competition, not vigorous cooperation.

The incentives for democratic process are such that it is inevitable it will devolve into a two party shitfest a la the USofA. Our multiparty system here in NZ is no better as it simply dilutes the power of the two majors to 3rd/4th/5th party players and we get even more half arsed policy.

As I have always said the only way to effectively implement democracy is to vote on policy, not people.
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