The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby GoranZ on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:07 am

Nicky15 wrote:These these rules are to make a fair and level playing field for everyone.

Really? If I don't have sitters from my time zone who will be able to supervise me in case of emergency? New rules are against those that play fair.

Once again, what I wrote previously.
GoranZ wrote:More I think about the new rules more I'm against them... I fell that I'm being targeted with new rules because of someone else's misuse. And whats most important proposed rules don't even target the problem, they target players like me who have done nothing wrong, nor they think of doing of something wrong in the future.

Example: Majority of my clanmates are from US time zones so now I have huge problems when it comes of emergency supervision from 9 AM to 2 PM. And now I have to find new sitters who are compatible to my playing style, and are from my time zone, and preferably from my clan.

One very specific question: Is it CD team job to propose sitting rules? according to me NO.

But CD team could have proposed something like this:

1. The announcing in chat, of the name of the person who has covered a turn will now be mandatory.
2. Only 100 turns(number taken by example) can be supervised in a war for all war participants no matter the reasons(exception can be huge RL disasters like earthquake or hurricanes... those clan members supervisions wont count)
3. For every 3(number taken by example) new turns 1 point negative punishment.


Simple solutions that targets those alliances that have a habit of supervising members for strategic reasons and not those clans that play by the rules.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby betiko on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:49 am

how about letting clan leaders negociate between each other on a case to case basis before each war? A clan leader knows more or less who will be on vacation at some point, who is having RL priorities at some point ect ect...

At the end of the day, it's clan A vs clan B. For some of these clans, these rules are too harch and for some others they are not harch enough. It would be like imposing the 12h fog rule, this depends on the involved clans's preferences.

One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:53 am

bekito, i think this option will (or should) be available with a webbased sitter tool.

edit: i did not understand that someone ELSE would look at the account to offer advise. thats already and remains against siterules.
Last edited by SirSebstar on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby laughingcavalier on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:02 am

betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:04 am

jetsetwilly wrote:
Koganosi wrote:2, Emergency cover may only be given if the person really is in danger of missing a turn. Therefore a turn can only be covered if there is an hour or less left on the clock. But steps must be taken to contact the player before hand.

I know some peeps in RL I sit in with my clan, they sometimes text me when they are gonna miss a turn? I took up contact with them then and can cover with the emergency, and the 1 hour rule thingie. But how can I prove to you guys then that I contacted them? If someone ever makes a C&A report or something on it?

Urs

Koganosi


Quite right, we aren't going to be asking screen prints of a text message or an email ! Clearly there's an element of trust involved here. If it happens time and time again for a player then that trust would be questioned.


i had not thought about this. before Ko, i did the same for the VDLL. the problem ko would face is that he could/would on a regular basis sit for random people on very short notice. so i think he has a good point. I think i will take it on faith though that the hunters will take more then face value and look for the real reasons. less of a high profile can make the difference, i hope, although that in itself could lead to "unfair" situations. maybe ko, its wiser to make a different arrangement, so the same sitting task is spread out among more players
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby josko.ri on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:12 am

While I may not agree with some decision, hats off to CD team for putting their voluntary time into developing these rules. Also CD and friends idea seems very nice to continue developing clan scene. =D>
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby TheJonah on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:24 am

josko.ri wrote:While I may not agree with some decision, hats off to CD team for putting their voluntary time into developing these rules. Also CD and friends idea seems very nice to continue developing clan scene. =D>


Well said josko.

The one hour rule is not set as yet and i think will most probably be increased. They do need to set a limit so they have something to work to which is understandable to punish what must be obvious offenders. There must have been many complaints for this to be set up.
As long as they have a reasonable arbitration panel then those of us who cover the way we do without impinging on the good nature of this game will have nothing to worry about.
I hope they will use this as a tool and not a rule.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby BGtheBrain on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:37 am

laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

agreed
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby TheJonah on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:46 am

BGtheBrain wrote:
laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

agreed


Seconded
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby codeblue1018 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:48 am

Just continue sitting as you normally would and quit worrying about these "new" rules. These are what my clan and probably most clans have been following for quite sometime. There would be no reason to take a turn beyond one hour anyway; the purpose of this is to take a turn for another member in the event of a miss. Instead of implementing all sorts of things that a lot of people will have a problem with; make it simple-increase the time per turn in clan games; instead of 24 hrs, make it 48 hrs. It will solve prolly 99% of sitting concerns.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby HardAttack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:16 am

codeblue1018 wrote:Just continue sitting as you normally would and quit worrying about these "new" rules. These are what my clan and probably most clans have been following for quite sometime. There would be no reason to take a turn beyond one hour anyway; the purpose of this is to take a turn for another member in the event of a miss. Instead of implementing all sorts of things that a lot of people will have a problem with; make it simple-increase the time per turn in clan games; instead of 24 hrs, make it 48 hrs. It will solve prolly 99% of sitting concerns.


Actually, smart fella codeblue comes here with a smart idea maybe, dont you think ?
If the all problem we have got is weekends, then set a player's turn to expire in 48 hour for 3 days (friday-saturday-sunday) then it switches back to 24 hours in weekdays, i mean the rest 4 days...This is #1

Or;
Completely freeze, i mean disable clan challenge games in weekends, starting from friday till it gets to monday ?

Or; to those who to state his excuse of unavailability for a period of time, say a maximum of 3 days, then have him apply to a clan director then CD to take the game in hold mode for 3 days ?

These are, silly ideas for sure, but maybe can bring some new ideas, i m not much sure anyway.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:28 am

TheJonah wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

agreed


Seconded


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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:47 am

We recently had a clan member moving house and he really didn't know when he could cover turns. Sometimes he could and sometimes he couldn't so he would send out a quick PM.

By the new rules he could get a sitter, but not take his own turns if he had time.
If his time went below 1 hour we couldn't take it because it wouldn't be considered an emergency.

Also, some clans are really close knit and have each others phone number, emails, etc. Some clans are not. This would put the latter in a big disadvantage. Could be kind of weird giving out phone numbers to somebody you don't even know.

Also, this requires members to share passwords. This is illegal in cc. If you need a sitter you are required to change your password for the duration you are gone and then change it again when you come back. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: The Offical Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:49 am

GoranZ wrote:Example: Majority of my clanmates are from US time zones so now I have huge problems when it comes of emergency supervision from 9 AM to 2 PM. And now I have to find new sitters who are compatible to my playing style, and are from my time zone, and preferably from my clan.

I am having a hard time following your argument here. Surely these sitters in different time zones would not have caught your missed turns as it is, before the rules were even implemented. Or are you saying you should have blanket permission for someone to take your turn 8 hours before it expired for example, how do justify they would have known you were not going to make it ?

One very specific question: Is it CD team job to propose sitting rules? according to me NO.
Whose Job is then? The Cds consulted with a group of members from across the clan world, involving clans from every level. The Cd team consulted with Admin and multi hunters who ultimately signed off on these rules.

But CD team could have proposed something like this:

1. The announcing in chat, of the name of the person who has covered a turn will now be mandatory.
2. Only 100 turns(number taken by example) can be supervised in a war for all war participants no matter the reasons(exception can be huge RL disasters like earthquake or hurricanes... those clan members supervisions wont count)
3. For every 3(number taken by example) new turns 1 point negative punishment.


As far as the last goes, although I understand your point, this would overly complicate things. We need a set of rules that are as simple as possible to follow. these suggestions perhaps or perhaps not could even aid cheating. As a team could plan where and when they can use their allowance for gaining advantages.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby L M S on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:50 am

NO WAY to increasing the time for turns. If you cant take a turn in 24 hours....c'mon people. The CC3 for example is already months behind schedule, if we had 48 hr turns...holy hell the thing would last 18 months. No way.
Its like Bruce said, (I'm paraphrasing here) sometime you might have to go for it...if you can't be trusted to take one turn on your own because of time constraints then you shouldn't be in a clan game anyway. This is the real problem, we all wait until the last friggin minute to take a turn so everyone and their mother can get a word in, starting now this practice of waiting until the last minute cant always be. 24 hours people!
Nice job on the rules guys.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby betiko on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:39 am

TheJonah wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

agreed


Seconded


Well this is bullcrap in my opinion. a clan is a team and I don't see how it would be cheating that other clan members know what is happening behind the fog in games they are not in. Or is it even prohibited to talk between clan members not in a game of how a fog game is going?
And totally agree with LMS. 48H turns, are you serious? so in a 4 player game when someone misses (because you are still aloud to take the turn before the last hour in case of absence) how many month should every game last? let's make it hive trench no spoils to add some fun!
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby crazy4catnip on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:46 am

I still need to read the rules more thoroughly (and may have more comments), but the first thing that comes to mind is that only "vacation" and "emergencies" are listed. There are other legitimate situations that need to be covered, such as business trips and moving to a new residence. I would characterize these situations as emergencies (like a computer failure), and they're not vacation either.

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:49 am

crazy4catnip wrote:I still need to read the rules more thoroughly (and may have more comments), but the first thing that comes to mind is that only "vacation" and "emergencies" are listed. There are other legitimate situations that need to be covered, such as business trips and moving to a new residence. I would characterize these situations as emergencies (like a computer failure), and they're not vacation either.

-- crazy4catnip


Business trips and moving house would definitely fall into a valid "vacation" situation. Any reasonable legitimate situation is a perfectly valid reason to have a sitter.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:51 am

betiko wrote:
TheJonah wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:
laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

agreed


Seconded


Well this is bullcrap in my opinion. a clan is a team and I don't see how it would be cheating that other clan members know what is happening behind the fog in games they are not in. Or is it even prohibited to talk between clan members not in a game of how a fog game is going?
And totally agree with LMS. 48H turns, are you serious? so in a 4 player game when someone misses (because you are still aloud to take the turn before the last hour in case of absence) how many month should every game last? let's make it hive trench no spoils to add some fun!


Yes I agree that a clan is a team. However, teams are made up of individuals and each should play their own game. Otherwise why not have clans of 4 people. If you don't like the way a certain member plays then maybe he should not be in your clan. If a game is fog those settings were made for a reason, so the other team and others not playing in the game can not see the position of the other team.

Maybe Dwight can ask Kobe to shoot his free throws, since their on the same team.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby IcePack on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:53 am

Yeah I agree and would love to hear a CD opinion. As clan leader I ask my member how games are going or get sent a screen shot. I've NEVER thought logging in to check game statuses was EVER an acceptable practise.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:54 am

I guess what it comes down to as that in many clans people ask their better players to look at the games and ask for strategies.

the question is, is this allowed? and if not can it be stopped?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:00 am

shoop76 wrote:I guess what it comes down to as that in many clans people ask their better players to look at the games and ask for strategies.

the question is, is this allowed? and if not can it be stopped?


It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

5. You must not be in another persons account for any reason, other than to cover turns while that person is on vacation


Abuse of this would potentially spotted by the hunters.

Of course players will ask clan mates for advice on a map and I guess some people might post up screen shots on their internal forum but logging into someone else's account for the purposes of helping with that turn is not acceptable.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:03 am

jetsetwilly wrote:
shoop76 wrote:I guess what it comes down to as that in many clans people ask their better players to look at the games and ask for strategies.

the question is, is this allowed? and if not can it be stopped?


It seems pretty clear to me that this wasn't clear at all before ! However rule 5 should leave no doubt that this is not an acceptable practice from here on in.

5. You must not be in another persons account for any reason, other than to cover turns while that person is on vacation


Abuse of this would potentially spotted by the hunters.

Of course players will ask clan mates for advice on a map and I guess some people might post up screen shots on their internal forum but logging into someone else's account for the purposes of helping with that turn is not acceptable.


But asking for advice on a game is. I don't have a problem either way, but just want it to be clear.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby freakns on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:04 am

laughingcavalier wrote:
betiko wrote:
One other thing (sorry I haven't read everything so don't know if this has been mentioned yet). But I know that often clan leaders get on clanmates accounts to "stalk" on fog games where their clan is involved to see how it's going. I think it's perfectly normal, wouldn't a general want to know the situation of his troops on each battlefield? If entering teammate's accounts to check out fog games seems perfectly normal to me, and if it becomes forbidden people can just send each other screenshots or share screen via skype or whatever. This is not account sharing. Otherwise, how about creating an option on CC to allow certain users not involved in a game to see what you see on a fog game?


Nobody should be doing this. You should only go on another's account to cover a turn they might miss. It is NOT OK for a clan leader to be checking out games this way whether or not they offer advice. That is nothing to do with the new clan rules, that is the site rule.

why so? i have been doing this since i have joined site. i like to know what is going on, and i leave without making any move or comment. how is this different from omiljeni, finsfleet and me sitting at omiljenis home and watching the map together in half time of football game? my point is, if this is forbidden, how will you make sure i dont see map just looking at it from omiljeni/fins computer? and the three of us do see each other every sunday to watch football, so if we are doing that, how can i be sure you arent doing the same thing with someone from your clan?

also, 1 hour rule is stupid beyond reason. our whole clan(with exception of milen83 who lives between new york and belgrade) live in same time zone. most of our moves start ticking during night(you living in England may be well aware of this). so lets say someone from my clan gets an emergency and his move is due to expire in 4AM CET(which is quite often). if we are strict to 1hour rule, someone need to be awake in 3AM to take a move? how stupid is that?

anyhow, i will leave the rest of my concerns for CD and friends, because these rules are not going to help anyone, they will more likely create additional confusion.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby shoop76 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:06 am

I guess my point is if its ok to get strategies from other members by other means, why does it really matter if someone logs onto your account or even takes the turns. A player could just sit there and tell the other player exactly what to do. What is the difference?
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