Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby Baron Von PWN on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:00 am

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:
Baron von PWN wrote:The problem if you just decriminalize it, is you could still go to jail for producing it or police could fine you for possessing and then confiscate your pot.


Could you elaborate on this? It doesn't make sense to me. Wouldn't decriminalization make it just like any other consumable item? I don't think the fuzz can arrest you for eating a cheeseburger, why would they be able to arrest you and confiscate your pot just for smoking or possessing it if it's not contraband?

-TG



Decriminalizing the substance doesen't make it legal. It merely makes it less ilegal. For instance, possesion of pot is decriminalized in Canada. What this means is that if a cop sees me smoking a joint they can confiscate it and destroy it, maybe if they are feeling like an asshole fine me. Nothing will go on my record it stops there. That's just a small amount though.

If I'm a dealer or a producer, and have a large quantity of pot. Like several ounces or more than 2 plants, I could face serious jail time.

Decriminalising only makes it easier on the consumer of the drug. The production and distribution is still ilegal. It's a strange half measure which acknowledges the complete lack of danger in the substance, but stubornly insists on keeping it ilegal(it's just no big deal if you get caught) .

Phatscotty's opposition to legalisation is as usual completely bizare. Against legalization of pot because it will hinder his economic freedom in the form of taxes, or pot will cost more. Which seems to completely ingore the costs of being sent to jail or the loss of liberty from the state arbitrairily deciding pot should be ilegal.
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby Phatscotty on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:38 pm

just sayin, if it's legalized, prepare for prices to double

If it can't be decriminalized, then just keep it illegal :lol:

Let the government run the Sahara Desert, there will be a shortage of sand in 5 years.
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:41 pm

Baron von PWN wrote:Decriminalizing the substance doesen't make it legal. It merely makes it less ilegal. For instance, possesion of pot is decriminalized in Canada. What this means is that if a cop sees me smoking a joint they can confiscate it and destroy it, maybe if they are feeling like an asshole fine me. Nothing will go on my record it stops there. That's just a small amount though.


That doesn't sound like decriminalization, then. One would expect from the structure of the word that it wouldn't be criminalized. I still fail to see the difference then between pot and a cheeseburger. Is there a specific law which states that cheeseburgers are legal? Because I'm then led to believe that a cop could confiscate my cheesburger, destroy (or stuff his fat face with it) and then fine me.

bah.

-TG
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby MegaProphet on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:57 pm

Phatscotty wrote:just sayin, if it's legalized, prepare for prices to double

If it can't be decriminalized, then just keep it illegal :lol:

Let the government run the Sahara Desert, there will be a shortage of sand in 5 years.

The tax is only 15% in Colorado and 25% in Washington I don't see how that would lead to prices doubling. In fact prices are projected to drop according to the marijuana lawyer who guest lectured for one of my classes. Which makes sense because the fact that anyone is allowed to grow up to 6 plants (in Colorado) will drive down the prices at retail shops
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:58 pm

_sabotage_ wrote:I spent 5 years 9 months and 21 days in jail for marijuana and only marijuana, 9 ounces. The government informed my family that I was arrested with 250 kg of heroin. Maximum security, where I spent nearly 3 years, was half drug cases. General population was also half drug cases. We find a problem and then build walls and systems around it. The systems become self serving, ie it makes no sense to destroy your income source, drugs, since this would put you out of business. It's much better to increase the flow so you can increase arrests and make your department stronger. When Anslinger first pushed for criminalization of marijuana, he falsified all the evidence surrounding it and the only scientific research was ignored, they actual told the doctor that his study of 40k people was of no value in the decision. Anslinger later moved to the UN and had marijuana outlawed internationally, incorporating its illegality as a fixed condition to join the WTO and UN council.

We now have 1,800,000 drug arrests each year. This is taxpayers money being used to build a police state against their own people. It amuses me to hear the discourse on the drug war. If marijuana and other drugs were legal, half of the American justice, police, prison and legal systems would be redundant. Do you really think that the government is going to allow freedom of choice in exchange for half of its muscle? Do you think that the president who is surrounded by this consortium of people whose livelihoods depend on destroying families and doing the governments dirty work is going to help my former cell mates who have long given up hope?


Here's the thing about pot:
It's illegal in most places so when you have several ounces you are most likely selling it for profit. If you are selling something illegal for profit you are taking a risk by trying to get something for nothing. The something is monetary gain that you make from selling something illegal that you would not gain if the substance were legal. This applies to lots and lots of things and it doesn't matter much what the substance is. Drugs, stolen goods, kidnapped people, whatever. It's not the drugs that is the issue, it's the act of trying to circumvent the bounds of our society for personal gain and it's punishable for a reason.
Also, pot is one of those things that, justly or unjustly, is used to bring in people who are guilty of other things but there is not sufficient evidence. It's used as a hook so to speak. Whether this is right or wrong I don't know but I do know that the cops don't just go busting into random people's houses looking for pot and throwing them in jail.
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Postby 2dimes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:15 am

There's a reason it's called "weed". If it was legal it would probably be pretty easy to keep the price down.
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Re:

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:24 am

2dimes wrote:There's a reason it's called "weed". If it was legal it would probably be pretty easy to keep the price down.


Indeed.
They could mass produce the stuff which "grows like a weed" without fear of the law and the price would eventually plummet. Look at the manufacture of alcohol ; it's a pretty complicated/expensive process in comparison and is still relatively cheap.
Last edited by Funkyterrance on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby patches70 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:51 am

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Postby 2dimes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:39 pm

I meant it would be growing by the river.
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Re:

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:41 pm

2dimes wrote:I meant it would be growing by the river.


Mmm, now there's a thought...
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Postby 2dimes on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:57 pm

It grows by rivers now but in some places they spray it with herbicide or harvest it for disposal etc.
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby Baron Von PWN on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:09 pm

TA1LGUNN3R wrote:
Baron von PWN wrote:Decriminalizing the substance doesen't make it legal. It merely makes it less ilegal. For instance, possesion of pot is decriminalized in Canada. What this means is that if a cop sees me smoking a joint they can confiscate it and destroy it, maybe if they are feeling like an asshole fine me. Nothing will go on my record it stops there. That's just a small amount though.


That doesn't sound like decriminalization, then. One would expect from the structure of the word that it wouldn't be criminalized. I still fail to see the difference then between pot and a cheeseburger. Is there a specific law which states that cheeseburgers are legal? Because I'm then led to believe that a cop could confiscate my cheesburger, destroy (or stuff his fat face with it) and then fine me.

bah.

-TG

There isin't. But there is a specific law saying marijuana is ilegal. Possesion of marijuana is a non criminal offense. Like say a speeding ticket. It's ilegal to speed, but if you are caught speeding you won't be sent to jail , it won't go on your record, you just get a ticket.

Decriminalizing it , just makes it a non criminal offense to posses weed. It's still illegal.
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:24 pm

MegaProphet wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:just sayin, if it's legalized, prepare for prices to double

If it can't be decriminalized, then just keep it illegal :lol:

Let the government run the Sahara Desert, there will be a shortage of sand in 5 years.

The tax is only 15% in Colorado and 25% in Washington I don't see how that would lead to prices doubling. In fact prices are projected to drop according to the marijuana lawyer who guest lectured for one of my classes. Which makes sense because the fact that anyone is allowed to grow up to 6 plants (in Colorado) will drive down the prices at retail shops


Oh? Prices are up15-25% right off that bat? Well then, I guess the taxes and the fees and the permits and the costs will never go up in the future.....

Actually, it doesn't make sense. What are the prices at the retail shops that are used for the comparison? Why would people who grow their own be any different from what we already have? Why would we expect their quality to even be marketable? The thinking of the lawyer sounds highly simplistic. Did anyone ask about his background in understanding the marketplace, and government force? It's more expensive for the government or a corporation to transport the product too. How much would you expect the price to be when scientists who are paid 200k a year are "called in to help". How about prices after unionization of the weed market. How about prices after the rent and taxes and electricity and insurance and health insurance for all employees who work at the weed shops and laboratories and warehouses. inspections and investigations into regulations, and government oversight agencies?

I can see it working based on the alcohol model, but I do not think today's business/government environment would "allow" the alcohol model. Since the government would be the one "creating/allowing" a newly regulated market, the government is going to have all the power and all the control.

If there needs to be a new law made, make it "weed is none of the governments business, period". You can have the sales taxes that go on everything else

Unfortunately, now it is the government's business more than ever before. It's their business through their "responsibility of paying the costs for your health" takeover. Ya see, if you get lung cancer, well, then, that ends up costing the government money, therefore they have the authority to relay the health costs of marijuana use onto the consumer of the product.
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby Nola_Lifer on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:58 pm

What scientist would you call in that cost 200k a year? This is a plant like any other crop that can be grown. Marijuana growers are as serious about their plants as tomato growers. There isn't that much regulation on growing a farm unless your trying to get certified organic. So scientist, laboratories and warehouses are out of the question unless you see marijuana grown on a large more corporate/industrial scale. Transportation won't be a problem either because of the proximity of growers to urban areas. Lets face it you can grow this shit in you back yard or in a closet at a very low cost. The people who will reap the most reward will be the hemp growers but this isn't what we are talking about. :D

The prices will most likely be the same, if anything they will drop. You will have lots of people treating this as a gold rush so more people will grow weed who weren't before, regardless of whether they smoke it or not. You will also see more dispensaries which probably won't be as regulated as most tobacco shops. You'll probably find that most tobacco shops will be ahead of the games due to the similar products.

At times it is better to say nothing at all then to make yourself look foolish over and over again. :mrgreen:
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Re: Colorado passes legalization of recreational pot,

Postby Phatscotty on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:00 pm

Nola_Lifer wrote:What scientist would you call in that cost 200k a year? This is a plant like any other crop that can be grown. Marijuana growers are as serious about their plants as tomato growers. There isn't that much regulation on growing a farm unless your trying to get certified organic. So scientist, laboratories and warehouses are out of the question unless you see marijuana grown on a large more corporate/industrial scale. Transportation won't be a problem either because of the proximity of growers to urban areas. Lets face it you can grow this shit in you back yard or in a closet at a very low cost. The people who will reap the most reward will be the hemp growers but this isn't what we are talking about. :D

The prices will most likely be the same, if anything they will drop. You will have lots of people treating this as a gold rush so more people will grow weed who weren't before, regardless of whether they smoke it or not. You will also see more dispensaries which probably won't be as regulated as most tobacco shops. You'll probably find that most tobacco shops will be ahead of the games due to the similar products.


Beer brewers are serious about their beer too. It doesn't make them competitors in the marketplace
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