The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby JustCallMeStupid on Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:48 pm

uckuki wrote:don't we have enough rules and regulations in real life, with cameras, comps
and whatever following our every move?? is the goal to make cc less fun and
more by-the-book place, with dice police checking our every turn?
the more rules and regulations the less fun and interesting cc will be.
I mean people talk about account sitting like it's doping at the Olympics.

how about this rule: take it easy. :)


I agree this is absurd. In all the years I've been on the site and seen 3 or 4 rounds baby sat by 1 teammate covering the other 2 guys turns I've never seen it as a deal where we need some kind of enforcement. Usually someone mentions in chat what is going on that a 3v3 is more like a 1v3 but then the situation is explained and all is well. But really, I agree with above dont let a few retardedly bad apples ruin it for everyone else. We have to deal with all the stupid people in life making life suck more every year, we do not need the politics on this site because a small minority have a stick up their butt about clanmates covering turns.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:38 pm

ok let me get some quotes.

all these are quotes from what king a has said..
Let me remind that Account sitting is only for situations where the player is in danger of missing his turn. It is not for the purpose of safeguarding someone's games, 24 hours/day for as long as you want, nor is it for people who will intentionally not take their turns so that their account sitter or clan mate can take the turn for them. It is not a 24/7 responsibility of anyone to look after the games of their friends or clan mates as this can be seen as account sharing where more than one person is already freely logging in to one account whenever these people want to. You can only take this too far.


Account sitting is for a definite period of time and NOT for an indefinite period. You can't assign an account sitter to account sit for you for as long as his blood is running into his veins. Then you can now sleep soundly whenever or do other stuff because you know he is going to save you from missing a turn. If you are capable of taking your turn, then take it. Do not make someone be responsible for your own account or lean too much for his advise.


this is the main thing maybe i was wrong about the password sharing thing but he does highlight it must be for a defined period. not just when someone goes awol...
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bones2484 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:46 pm

Eddie - Those were the quotes I was using that lead me to be under the assumption that you should not share a permanent password. But it appears as that has been clarified in other threads (including this one) since those original posts by KA was made. The idea seems to be that you can have someone's password, but you can only log into that account when that person is either on vacation or within an hour of missing a turn. Seems fair to me and I'm glad we finally got some sort of official response.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:50 pm

JustCallMeStupid wrote:
I agree this is absurd. In all the years I've been on the site and seen 3 or 4 rounds baby sat by 1 teammate covering the other 2 guys turns I've never seen it as a deal where we need some kind of enforcement. Usually someone mentions in chat what is going on that a 3v3 is more like a 1v3 but then the situation is explained and all is well. But really, I agree with above dont let a few retardedly bad apples ruin it for everyone else. We have to deal with all the stupid people in life making life suck more every year, we do not need the politics on this site because a small minority have a stick up their butt about clanmates covering turns.


If we have sticks up our butts it's in the power of cc to remove them. We didn't put them there in the first place, others did. While they are at it, why don't they take those sticks, once removed, and smack the rule benders over the head with them.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:28 pm

Bones2484 wrote:Eddie - Those were the quotes I was using that lead me to be under the assumption that you should not share a permanent password. But it appears as that has been clarified in other threads (including this one) since those original posts by KA was made. The idea seems to be that you can have someone's password, but you can only log into that account when that person is either on vacation or within an hour of missing a turn. Seems fair to me and I'm glad we finally got some sort of official response.


ok ty bones,

just hope they are really going to take time zones into account when people are sitting don't really bother aka that much as we have 3 players in all different time zones but i can still see it hard to make sure only 1 hour on the clock...
and i am the same i am really glad they have introduced the rules.

the only thing that does concern me is that some of the sitting rules for clan wars could be seen as a breach of site rules and by the op it says it will be dealt with by clan moderators,i would like to see king achilles or c and a team member come in and say they are going to agree to all of these rules being dealt with by a clan mod and not a c and a mod. or any cheating in clan wars not being seen as site cheating but seen as clan mod territory. including forum bans for posts in war threads etc they will not join the esculating ban for other areas of the site.

thats the last from me on this matter let the fun begin :twisted:
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bones2484 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:08 pm

eddie2 wrote:the only thing that does concern me is that some of the sitting rules for clan wars could be seen as a breach of site rules


Not sure what you mean. The clan rules seem to be in line with the site rules (except for Rule #1 which is not a big deal), just put more clearly.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:20 pm

Funkyterrance wrote: Just because you have an explanation doesn't prove that there wasn't abuse. "


Funky, your comment exemplifies why this entire ruling is overkill.

Having to "prove there wasn't abuse," because you take one turn for someone who, for whatever reason, couldn't play that day.

Maybe it's not "vacation," maybe it's "working 15 hours a day this weekend, and kid has a ballgame I have to attend, so won't have time to log in, can you watch my games?"

How is any of this abuse of the "old system?" But under the new system this could be considered abuse, especially if I took the turn at my convenience which may mean 7 hours before the turn ends because I'm going to bed and maybe me being tired when I finished my turns and went to check my clanmate's turns is why I forgot to type stahr in one of the games. So now this could be abuse? It's overkill and just plain stupid.

If there was a systematic habit of this, then sure, I could agree that that's abuse, but the new "official clan sitting rules" aren't about finding a systematic habits of watching other players turns, which is found by looking at ip's, these official rules go way beyond that into, as I said, overkill and stupidity.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby greenoaks on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:42 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote: Just because you have an explanation doesn't prove that there wasn't abuse. "


Funky, your comment exemplifies why this entire ruling is overkill.

Having to "prove there wasn't abuse," because you take one turn for someone who, for whatever reason, couldn't play that day.

Maybe it's not "vacation," maybe it's "working 15 hours a day this weekend, and kid has a ballgame I have to attend, so won't have time to log in, can you watch my games?"

How is any of this abuse of the "old system?" But under the new system this could be considered abuse, especially if I took the turn at my convenience which may mean 7 hours before the turn ends because I'm going to bed and maybe me being tired when I finished my turns and went to check my clanmate's turns is why I forgot to type stahr in one of the games. So now this could be abuse? It's overkill and just plain stupid.

.

the CD's have already said if you miss typing it in the odd game you'll be ok.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:55 pm

The 1 hour rule is ridiculous. Having to get scheduled permission to be awol for a day or so is ridiculous.

There's a big difference between someone systematically playing the game for another player, and someone being casual about letting another player take the odd turn for them because today was a rough work/home/electricity/internet connection day, on what is supposed to be a casual game site.

These rules are more strict about being absent and how to be absent for a turn, than many folks' workplaces are for having to go do something unplanned/unscheduled at the last minute so needing someone to cover part of their workshift.

It's overkill.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
eddie2 wrote:the only thing that does concern me is that some of the sitting rules for clan wars could be seen as a breach of site rules


Not sure what you mean. The clan rules seem to be in line with the site rules (except for Rule #1 which is not a big deal), just put more clearly.


yep i am not wording it very well am i.

ok 2 recent cases cof, josko, both ended up in a ban/warning. this is on the escalating scale of site punishments. but if we were to follow these new clan rules they would not be punishable by c and a moderators. instead they would be dealt with by the clan moderation team who will issue clan war bans etc.

but we have not seen a post from king achilles to confirm this will be followed. example if a case like the previous c and a cases are brought forward will they be passed over to the clan mod teams to be dealt with on a clan war escalating punishment and can we get some confirmation that this will happen.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby greenoaks on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:15 pm

stahrgazer wrote:The 1 hour rule is ridiculous. Having to get scheduled permission to be awol for a day or so is ridiculous.

There's a big difference between someone systematically playing the game for another player, and someone being casual about letting another player take the odd turn for them because today was a rough work/home/electricity/internet connection day, on what is supposed to be a casual game site.

These rules are more strict about being absent and how to be absent for a turn, than many folks' workplaces are for having to go do something unplanned/unscheduled at the last minute so needing someone to cover part of their workshift.

It's overkill.

these rules are not for casual games, they are for competitive clan games.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bones2484 on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:22 pm

stahrgazer wrote:The 1 hour rule is ridiculous. Having to get scheduled permission to be awol for a day or so is ridiculous.

There's a big difference between someone systematically playing the game for another player, and someone being casual about letting another player take the odd turn for them because today was a rough work/home/electricity/internet connection day, on what is supposed to be a casual game site.

These rules are more strict about being absent and how to be absent for a turn, than many folks' workplaces are for having to go do something unplanned/unscheduled at the last minute so needing someone to cover part of their workshift.

It's overkill.


Nothing is stopping you from simply missing turns if you can't play them yourself. If you're that casual on a site that's just for fun (not judging you, most of G1 feels this way) then you shouldn't care about a rare missed turn.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Evil Semp on Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:44 pm

eddie2 wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
eddie2 wrote:the only thing that does concern me is that some of the sitting rules for clan wars could be seen as a breach of site rules


Not sure what you mean. The clan rules seem to be in line with the site rules (except for Rule #1 which is not a big deal), just put more clearly.


yep i am not wording it very well am i.

ok 2 recent cases cof, josko, both ended up in a ban/warning. this is on the escalating scale of site punishments. but if we were to follow these new clan rules they would not be punishable by c and a moderators. instead they would be dealt with by the clan moderation team who will issue clan war bans etc.

but we have not seen a post from king achilles to confirm this will be followed. example if a case like the previous c and a cases are brought forward will they be passed over to the clan mod teams to be dealt with on a clan war escalating punishment and can we get some confirmation that this will happen.


eddie

I think I can speak for C&A. If a site rule is broken and it is brought to our attention it will NOT BE IGNORED. These new clan rules only pertain to account sitting.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:24 pm

stahrgazer wrote:Funky, your comment exemplifies why this entire ruling is overkill.

Having to "prove there wasn't abuse," because you take one turn for someone who, for whatever reason, couldn't play that day.

Maybe it's not "vacation," maybe it's "working 15 hours a day this weekend, and kid has a ballgame I have to attend, so won't have time to log in, can you watch my games?"

How is any of this abuse of the "old system?" But under the new system this could be considered abuse, especially if I took the turn at my convenience which may mean 7 hours before the turn ends because I'm going to bed and maybe me being tired when I finished my turns and went to check my clanmate's turns is why I forgot to type stahr in one of the games. So now this could be abuse? It's overkill and just plain stupid.

If there was a systematic habit of this, then sure, I could agree that that's abuse, but the new "official clan sitting rules" aren't about finding a systematic habits of watching other players turns, which is found by looking at ip's, these official rules go way beyond that into, as I said, overkill and stupidity.


Look, man, I'm on your side really. You are obviously not the sort of person who these rules were meant to moderate but that doesn't change the fact that those people are out there. It's not overkill if people are abusing the system. Since we don't know for certain just how many people are abusing it(we know at least some are, even this thread proves it), we have to make a rule that covers everyone, even the ones who don't bend the rules. If the concept of a few rotten apples spoiling it for everyone is new to you, I'm sorry but it's a fact of life.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby agentcom on Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:04 am

Evil Semp wrote:
eddie2 wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
eddie2 wrote:the only thing that does concern me is that some of the sitting rules for clan wars could be seen as a breach of site rules


Not sure what you mean. The clan rules seem to be in line with the site rules (except for Rule #1 which is not a big deal), just put more clearly.


yep i am not wording it very well am i.

ok 2 recent cases cof, josko, both ended up in a ban/warning. this is on the escalating scale of site punishments. but if we were to follow these new clan rules they would not be punishable by c and a moderators. instead they would be dealt with by the clan moderation team who will issue clan war bans etc.

but we have not seen a post from king achilles to confirm this will be followed. example if a case like the previous c and a cases are brought forward will they be passed over to the clan mod teams to be dealt with on a clan war escalating punishment and can we get some confirmation that this will happen.


eddie

I think I can speak for C&A. If a site rule is broken and it is brought to our attention it will NOT BE IGNORED. These new clan rules only pertain to account sitting.


Evil Semp, you beat me to it. I think there's a lot of confusion over the mechanics of what is happening here. Clans are a side benefit of CC that CC has elevated to a certain status, just like Tournaments are. There are site-wide rules in place that govern EVERYTHING including Clans and Tournaments, but there are also specific rules in place that govern only Tournaments or only Clans. We don't need administrators or multi-hunters to give credence to the rules that are decided by the leaders of the Clan world. What they say pretty much goes as long as it's not too crazy or violating site rules.

I understand people being concerned about what the site rules are for account sitting, but those rules aren't changed by any of this stuff going on here. Now that we've ascertained that simply having someone's password is not against site rules nor against clan rules, the whole issue is pretty much irrelevant to the current issue: whether these ADDITIONAL rules governing play in clan games are appropriate.

I still haven't received any response to these ideas. I just want to make sure they're not missed.

First, the 1 hour rule should probably be expanded, but at the very least there need to be exceptions. Exception 1: An emergency in which the sitter has been informed that turns need to be taken should be treated the same as any prearranged absence. Exception 2: Once a player comes within the 1 hour rule and after efforts have been made to contact that player, sitting should be permitted at the minimum levels necessary to ensure no missed turns. If only one player has their password and that player is going to bed, this means they could clear 8 hours or so. Exception 3: After a player has missed a turn, he is considered in a state of emergency and the other exceptions apply. Exception 4: Other exceptions handled on a case-by-case basis, e.g., Goranz' posts about being in a different timezone.

Just thought of this: change "vacation" or whatever it says now to "prearranged absence, e.g., vacation"

I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that I can't play some other turns while I'm away. Sometimes, as a favor to my sitter, I try to clear the easy turns or the turns in games that are already decided to decrease the sitter's gameload. I understand how this could be abused, so I get why the rule is as it is, but I'm not terribly happy about not being able to help my sitter out while he's helping me.
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