$168 Per Day

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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:27 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Juan, if you're so jealous of CEO pay, why don't you do something with yourself and become a CEO instead of demanding that the government take money away from others and hand it to you?


Because people who think something is wrong generally don't want to become the wrongdoers?


If you buy anything from the corporate structure you are part of the problem, AKA wrongdoer.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Night Strike on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:45 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Juan, if you're so jealous of CEO pay, why don't you do something with yourself and become a CEO instead of demanding that the government take money away from others and hand it to you?


Because people who think something is wrong generally don't want to become the wrongdoers?


Why not? He can distribute his entire salary to the workers while only keeping his "living wage". He can be a role model for other CEOs instead of just another greedy person demanding the government take it away from them.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:54 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Juan, if you're so jealous of CEO pay, why don't you do something with yourself and become a CEO instead of demanding that the government take money away from others and hand it to you?


Because people who think something is wrong generally don't want to become the wrongdoers?


Why not? He can distribute his entire salary to the workers while only keeping his "living wage". He can be a role model for other CEOs instead of just another greedy person demanding the government take it away from them.


This is not a method by which one can reform the system. Other CEOs will not follow the lead of a role model; if they would, Warren Buffet would already have convinced all wealthy people that they should pay more in taxes.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby john9blue on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:02 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Juan, if you're so jealous of CEO pay, why don't you do something with yourself and become a CEO instead of demanding that the government take money away from others and hand it to you?


Because people who think something is wrong generally don't want to become the wrongdoers?


Why not? He can distribute his entire salary to the workers while only keeping his "living wage". He can be a role model for other CEOs instead of just another greedy person demanding the government take it away from them.


This is not a method by which one can reform the system. Other CEOs will not follow the lead of a role model; if they would, Warren Buffet would already have convinced all wealthy people that they should pay more in taxes.


warren buffett is giving away most of his wealth to charity... and if more CEO's shared buffett's views, i'm sure it would have a bigger effect on national politics.

that being said, it's way harder for someone like juan to become a CEO as opposed to someone who was born rich, so it's pretty dumb to blame juan for that.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Night Strike on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:20 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Juan, if you're so jealous of CEO pay, why don't you do something with yourself and become a CEO instead of demanding that the government take money away from others and hand it to you?


Because people who think something is wrong generally don't want to become the wrongdoers?


Why not? He can distribute his entire salary to the workers while only keeping his "living wage". He can be a role model for other CEOs instead of just another greedy person demanding the government take it away from them.


This is not a method by which one can reform the system. Other CEOs will not follow the lead of a role model; if they would, Warren Buffet would already have convinced all wealthy people that they should pay more in taxes.


Maybe if Warren Buffet actually wrote checks to the government instead of demanding higher income taxes (that he won't be paying), he might actually be credible.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:22 pm

Night Strike wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Juan, if you're so jealous of CEO pay, why don't you do something with yourself and become a CEO instead of demanding that the government take money away from others and hand it to you?


Because people who think something is wrong generally don't want to become the wrongdoers?


Why not? He can distribute his entire salary to the workers while only keeping his "living wage". He can be a role model for other CEOs instead of just another greedy person demanding the government take it away from them.


This is not a method by which one can reform the system. Other CEOs will not follow the lead of a role model; if they would, Warren Buffet would already have convinced all wealthy people that they should pay more in taxes.


Maybe if Warren Buffet actually wrote checks to the government instead of demanding higher income taxes (that he won't be paying), he might actually be credible.


Warren Buffet has pledged to give a very large portion of his income to charity. I think he has proven that he is willing to sacrifice his personal wealth for the betterment of society. The same cannot be said for many others.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Night Strike on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:27 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:Warren Buffet has pledged to give a very large portion of his income to charity. I think he has proven that he is willing to sacrifice his personal wealth for the betterment of society. The same cannot be said for many others.


How do you know how much every single CEO donates to charity? Heck, you all reamed on Mitt Romney, a former CEO, even though he gave something like 20% of his income to charity. And why are you all praising Buffet's claims of donating to charities when you're also using this thread to demand the government take the money away from the rich, which means they won't be donating it to charities? And why do you praise Buffet for giving to charity while demanding others pay more to the government when he doesn't give more money to the government on his own? Furthermore, why are you comparing a BILLIONAIRE investor to the owner of a small business (since they're both considered the same level of rich under Obama)?
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Timminz on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:47 pm

Sometimes I really enjoy the stream-of-consciousness rants of talking points. I mean, small business owners?! From way out in left field....
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Lootifer on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:56 pm

patches70 wrote:
Lootifer wrote:
Firstly I wasnt supplying a solution; just identifying what I think the problem is.


You think this is the problem?-

Lootifer wrote: I would identify the fundamental problem as being that the person earning 60k is not being paid enough



I don't think that's right at all. It's not that the person isn't earning enough, it's that the currency they are earning is not valuable enough.

There was a time when earning $60K a year would be more than enough.
We think it's only natural that prices rise. That's not true at all, it's anything but natural. When you look prices of things in another medium, a more stable medium, you see that prices of things has dropped dramatically.

Thirty years ago a dollar would have bought you eight loaves of bread. But look at it in another medium of exchange, gold. Thirty years ago an ounce of could would have bought you a hundred loaves of bread where the dollar would have bought you only eight.

Today, a dollar won't even buy you a loaf of bread, not even half a load. But how much bread could you buy with an ounce of gold today? Around 600 loaves.


When you look at prices in a stable medium of exchange, such as gold which is about the most stable medium of exchange there has ever been in the history of mankind, you can clearly see that the prices of things as gone down, a lot!
You can compare this with anything that can be bought or sold. And results are always the same.


But the dollar, what we use every day, what we are paid in, it's value only gets worse and worse.

Therefore you should be able to clearly see that this isn't that people aren't getting enough money, it's that what they are getting for their labors is worth less and less and less. It's the currency itself that is the problem. It is the central problem that has to be corrected first before there is ever going to be a chance to correct anything else.


Lootifer wrote:And my premise is that to pay for the welfare programmes the government is not printing money to do so.


Where did the bills that are in your wallet come from?

LOL

Absolutely the government is printing money, how else did it come into existence in the first place if it were not printed or created some way out of thin air?
Our currency isn't tied to gold or any other commodity. Ctrl P. That's where money comes from. And it all has to be paid back, every single penny. And when it's all paid back, every dime ever created, we'd still owe the interest, which we would not be able to pay because the currency to pay the interest is never printed. Only what is borrowed is printed. To pay the interest we must borrow more so that more can be printed.

Don't you see that?

And every newly printed dollar makes every other dollar already in existence worth less. And it is impossible to not keep printing because of the very nature of how currency comes into existence. It's borrowed (thus the term "debt based").

And this leads to problems, like the ever increasing need for more and more welfare funds, as an example. Which only contributes more to the problem. It is unsustainable and in reality is only "kicking the can" down the road. Until such time comes (and it always comes) that the "can" can't be kicked down the road any longer.
Then it gets interesting.
And by interesting, I mean for many people it will be quite horrible, namely poor bastards who are on welfare, for one.....

I want to reply to this btw, rest assured im not dodging. I am just, ironically enough, busy as f*ck at work lol.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:06 pm

Night Strike wrote:How do you know how much every single CEO donates to charity?


I do know that systematically, wealthy Americans donate significantly less of their income (as a percentage) than people of lower income levels.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/2 ... 19142.html

Heck, you all reamed on Mitt Romney, a former CEO, even though he gave something like 20% of his income to charity.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/edwindurgy/ ... iven-away/

Most of the money Romney has donated to "charity" has really just been to support his church, which I do not consider to be charitable giving of the type that benefits society as a whole. Apparently if you're Mitt Romney, you essentially only deserve his support if you believe in the same religious views he does.

And why are you all praising Buffet's claims of donating to charities when you're also using this thread to demand the government take the money away from the rich, which means they won't be donating it to charities?


Because charitable giving is no longer needed if people contribute to that cause as a result of their taxation.

And why do you praise Buffet for giving to charity while demanding others pay more to the government when he doesn't give more money to the government on his own?


As I already said, because Buffett writing a check to the government wouldn't actually cause systematic change. Being an advocate so that he and everyone else of his level of wealth is forced to pay more in taxes, would result in change.

Furthermore, why are you comparing a BILLIONAIRE investor to the owner of a small business (since they're both considered the same level of rich under Obama)?


Was I doing that?
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Lootifer on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:10 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:As I already said, because Buffett writing a check to the government wouldn't actually cause systematic change. Being an advocate so that he and everyone else of his level of wealth is forced to pay more in taxes, would result in change.

For what its worth, you and I want systemic change not systematic change :P
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby thegreekdog on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:13 pm

Quick question - If we raised the minimum wage to $9.80 an hour, which the Democrats proposed earlier this year, would that help a lot or not help at all?

Let's see. Assuming 8 hour work day and 5 day work week, that's $78.40 a day, $392 a week, and $20,384 a year. That can't be enough to live on. I wonder why the Democrats want to raise the minimum wage?

By the way, for whatever it's worth, I'm all for raising the minimum wage if it's an actual, for realsies, increase that actually affects more people instead of this fake crap to make sure union carpenters can make $98 an hour instead of $80 an hour.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:20 pm

Lootifer wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:As I already said, because Buffett writing a check to the government wouldn't actually cause systematic change. Being an advocate so that he and everyone else of his level of wealth is forced to pay more in taxes, would result in change.

For what its worth, you and I want systemic change not systematic change :P


Systematic change is the word I intended to use, as it accurately expresses what I was trying to say. If there's any real difference between the words, in this context, it might be that systemic change would be something like the nature of government fundamentally changing. On the other hand, I was expressing the hope that we would have a systematic change to a state where donation to charitable causes is handled by the government in an ordered manner rather than on an ad hoc basis by individual giving.
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Phatscotty on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:24 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Night Strike wrote:Juan, if you're so jealous of CEO pay, why don't you do something with yourself and become a CEO instead of demanding that the government take money away from others and hand it to you?


Because people who think something is wrong generally don't want to become the wrongdoers?


Why not? He can distribute his entire salary to the workers while only keeping his "living wage". He can be a role model for other CEOs instead of just another greedy person demanding the government take it away from them.


This is not a method by which one can reform the system. Other CEOs will not follow the lead of a role model; if they would, Warren Buffet would already have convinced all wealthy people that they should pay more in taxes.


Maybe other people will start paying more in taxes when those people who are obsessed with other people's money start leading by example. There is nothing courageous or compassionate about lust for other people's money, and is actually probably the greediest thing in our world currently.

Besides, other people paying more in taxes does not fix anything
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Re: $168 Per Day

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:26 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Maybe other people will start paying more in taxes when those people who are obsessed with other people's money start leading by example. There is nothing courageous or compassionate about lust for other people's money, and is actually probably the greediest thing in our world currently


You think that wanting to redistribute other peoples' money for societal good is more greedy than building up a large pile of cash so that you can buy nicer toys?
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