DoomYoshi wrote:Ok, well regardless of whether Woodrow actually invented German identity, if he did, he was directly responsible for the holocaust.
So regardless of the actual truth? What? Woodrow Wilson had nothing to with German nationalism and oyu're doing an awful job of backtracking.
Well regardless of whether DoomYoshi talked with lizardpeople, if he did, he was directly responsible for 9/11. Wee, I can do this too.
You've managed to be completely wrong in your entire post about basically everything.
Iliad wrote:It's not a mathematical or a scientific factor, but it is certainly a social one and an important part of a person's identity
This is the problem. The fact that this statement is true makes the Holocaust, and all non-random genocides, justifiable.
Random genocides are justifiable just because I like the idea of drawing random groups of people out of a hat and destroying them. Preferably a bowler hat. I imagine jonesy has one.
And my point was that nationalism and national identity does exist, despite your attempts to claim it doesn't or it didn't, it's a fairly important social distinction. If you claim there is no such thing as Germany there are a lot of baffled Germans, because to them there is certainly such a thing.
DoomYoshi wrote:On to other points. Heimat is a concept from post-Wilson Europe.
No it's not, no idea what your 10 second google search told you.
DoomYoshi wrote:Napoleonic Nationalism can't be overlooked, and I made sure to not say that Wilson invented nationalism as an individual concept. In any case, it doesn't matter what political scientists or literary spanks were writing about for years before Wilson. The point is that he implemented this stuff. Academics don't deserve any credit for anything, ever.
If they do, then surely Liddell-Hart is responsible for the Nazis quick conquering of France.
Finally, the Wiki version of Benedict Anderson doesn't seem to actually contradict any claim I am making.
Oh boy. You said Woodrow Wilson forced nationalism onto Europe and that caused the Holocaust.
Firstly Wilson did not force nationalism on Europe. I directed you to actual causes of nationalism but you in all glory decided to ignore it altogether. Once again, nationalism predated Wilson and he had nothing to do with that. You're going to have to go a level beyond Wikipedia champ if you actually want to argue about this. Google Benedict Anderson and Imagined Community.
Also, secondly, it wasn't just nationalism that led to the Holocaust. Plenty of states today with a healthy national identity and distinct lack of ethnic purging. It takes more factors than just a national identity for people to start rounding up minorities. You're kinda absolving a lot of blame from the Nazis here.
I've explained and mentioned enough authors and concepts for you to actually to get started on this and and not have a batshit arguments. Have fun.