Funkyterrance wrote:If you are caught cheating it's safe to assume that you didn't earn your medals in the first place.
That's probably not true, but I don't have a problem with some kind of punishment here.
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Funkyterrance wrote:If you are caught cheating it's safe to assume that you didn't earn your medals in the first place.
chapcrap wrote:Funkyterrance wrote:If you are caught cheating it's safe to assume that you didn't earn your medals in the first place.
That's probably not true, but I don't have a problem with some kind of punishment here.
Evil Semp wrote:Is stripping of medals going to stop people from creating additional accounts? Will it be a deterrent?
My opinion is no it will not be a deterrent. Many multi's are created to get around the 4 game limit.
I personally don't concern myself with medals. I have medals and points but I don't play for them. It doesn't matter to me if stripping medals would be an added punishment.
agentcom wrote:I think we can safely say that CC will not be handing out "cheater" medals. Let's not start up that discussion.
Commander62890 wrote:What about users who were wrongly convicted of cheating? This would hurt them a lot more than the premium strip.
Funkyterrance wrote:chapcrap wrote:Funkyterrance wrote:If you are caught cheating it's safe to assume that you didn't earn your medals in the first place.
That's probably not true, but I don't have a problem with some kind of punishment here.
My feelings are that if you end up a cheater you aren't deserving of any medals, you're a disgrace. Someone with this mindset can't earn a medal. If you think that medals are just a symbol of winning x number of games on x setting then sure, I agree with you.
I think a more appropriate punishment would be to have a big label below your username, sort of like mods, that says in big red letters: CHEATER. That way you could just write them off as bullshitters and scum. I think it's odd how people can sort of wear off a bad rep on here, in the real military it's not like that at all. In rl you are forever marked, as it should be.
Gillipig wrote:I have a little bit more radical suggestion, I was thinking of castration!? Would work as a deterrent for sure .
chapcrap wrote:Gillipig wrote:I have a little bit more radical suggestion, I was thinking of castration!? Would work as a deterrent for sure .
Please stay on topic.
Dukasaur wrote:Funkyterrance wrote:chapcrap wrote:Funkyterrance wrote:If you are caught cheating it's safe to assume that you didn't earn your medals in the first place.
That's probably not true, but I don't have a problem with some kind of punishment here.
My feelings are that if you end up a cheater you aren't deserving of any medals, you're a disgrace. Someone with this mindset can't earn a medal. If you think that medals are just a symbol of winning x number of games on x setting then sure, I agree with you.
I think a more appropriate punishment would be to have a big label below your username, sort of like mods, that says in big red letters: CHEATER. That way you could just write them off as bullshitters and scum. I think it's odd how people can sort of wear off a bad rep on here, in the real military it's not like that at all. In rl you are forever marked, as it should be.
Exactly as it should NOT be. The whole point of punishment is that it settles the debt you have incurred by your transgression, and therefore by definition you are starting back with a zero net balance.
It's just as wrong when this kind of dragging shit out goes on in real life. When someone does his jail time or pays his fine in real life, we say "he's paid his debt to society" but then he suffers all kinds of additional penalties that weren't judicially levied, being barred from employment in various fields and from housing in certain buildings, etc., etc. That's double jeopardy, and it's just plain wrong. If he's been punished that should end the matter forever.
And I've never been in the military, but I've read lots of memoirs written by soldiers, from medieval times to Vietnam, and my impression is the opposite of yours. It seems to me the military is much more sensible about these things. If you commit some kind of infraction like sneezing while on stealth recon or whatever, the sergeant takes you out back after the patrol comes in and either gives you a good beating (in rougher times) or gives you three weeks latrine duty or whatever (in gentler times). Either way, when the punishment is done, the incident is over and nobody will ever mention it again. That's the way it should be. Punishment exactly balances the crime. Plus one and minus one become zero -- nothingness -- once they have met.
If people are unsatisfied with the scale of punishments then they should lobby to increase the severity of the scale, but not try to sneak in extra punishments that aren't part of the original bargain at all.
Dukasaur wrote:And I've never been in the military, but I've read lots of memoirs written by soldiers, from medieval times to Vietnam, and my impression is the opposite of yours. It seems to me the military is much more sensible about these things. If you commit some kind of infraction like sneezing while on stealth recon or whatever, the sergeant takes you out back after the patrol comes in and either gives you a good beating (in rougher times) or gives you three weeks latrine duty or whatever (in gentler times). Either way, when the punishment is done, the incident is over and nobody will ever mention it again.
Funkyterrance wrote:Dukasaur wrote:And I've never been in the military, but I've read lots of memoirs written by soldiers, from medieval times to Vietnam, and my impression is the opposite of yours. It seems to me the military is much more sensible about these things. If you commit some kind of infraction like sneezing while on stealth recon or whatever, the sergeant takes you out back after the patrol comes in and either gives you a good beating (in rougher times) or gives you three weeks latrine duty or whatever (in gentler times). Either way, when the punishment is done, the incident is over and nobody will ever mention it again.
I'm sorry, sneezing isn't nearly an accurate comparison. Cheating is more akin to something like being a traitor or a coward during battle in the military. In these cases, the infraction is not forgotten after the "punishment" has been enacted. You're indelibly marked.
deathcomesrippin wrote:Being in the situation where I deal with the cheaters, I really feel like weighing in on this.
Who cares. Take away their medals. I know that I stated otherwise way back when, but the more I think the less I actually care about the fact that cheaters have medals or not. And, if it deters even a handful of people from doing it, that lessens the workload of the entire website. So get this done, and let's move forward. Remove the medals from multi cheaters and serial Secret Diplomacy cheaters.
Funkyterrance wrote:I think a more appropriate punishment would be to have a big label below your username, sort of like mods, that says in big red letters: CHEATER. That way you could just write them off as bullshitters and scum. I think it's odd how people can sort of wear off a bad rep on here, in the real military it's not like that at all. In rl you are forever marked, as it should be.
Finsfleet wrote:Sadistic bastard, f*ck off. I honestly hope that you don`t have any kind of power over other people`s lives in rl. If you think that crime is beyond redemtion, then deal with it accordingly. This is why we have foe lists, and this is why people are banned from sites. Marking people in any way doesn`t accomplish anything except making one group of people feeling better about themselves on account of another group of people.
Funkyterrance wrote:Finsfleet wrote:Sadistic bastard, f*ck off. I honestly hope that you don`t have any kind of power over other people`s lives in rl. If you think that crime is beyond redemtion, then deal with it accordingly. This is why we have foe lists, and this is why people are banned from sites. Marking people in any way doesn`t accomplish anything except making one group of people feeling better about themselves on account of another group of people.
I also think that child molesters should have to have their foreheads branded with "CM". If this makes me a sadist, so be it.
Finsfleet wrote:Funkyterrance wrote:Finsfleet wrote:Sadistic bastard, f*ck off. I honestly hope that you don`t have any kind of power over other people`s lives in rl. If you think that crime is beyond redemtion, then deal with it accordingly. This is why we have foe lists, and this is why people are banned from sites. Marking people in any way doesn`t accomplish anything except making one group of people feeling better about themselves on account of another group of people.
I also think that child molesters should have to have their foreheads branded with "CM". If this makes me a sadist, so be it.
No. It makes you __________ .
And the fact that you would even think about comparing these two situations makes you _________ .
And the rest of your post makes you either _________ or __________ .
I`m calm today so I`m not gonna use inappropriate words, but consider that I insulted you three times here. For explanation, read my previous post again. Well, part of it. The other part I just don`t feel like explaining right now.
Funkyterrance wrote:Finsfleet wrote:Sadistic bastard, f*ck off. I honestly hope that you don`t have any kind of power over other people`s lives in rl. If you think that crime is beyond redemtion, then deal with it accordingly. This is why we have foe lists, and this is why people are banned from sites. Marking people in any way doesn`t accomplish anything except making one group of people feeling better about themselves on account of another group of people.
I also think that child molesters should have to have their foreheads branded with "CM". If this makes me a sadist, so be it.
There are certain things that shouldn't be forgotten, for safety's sake. Besides, we are talking about an online game here; it's not like these people can't just leave and find somewhere else to go. You've got to keep your house clean.
betiko wrote:even a child molestor could deserve a second chance, depending on what he did, you can't label people (never better said) and put them in the same bag without even a trial. I just think that we should trust the mods judgment and let them decide according to the situation. noted, warning, forum ban, temporary site ban, point reset, medal stripping and guessed. Medal stripping is already something they can do anyway. You are basically asking to give a life sentence for any given crime on the site (as if there wasn't a scale of importance...), which is slightly manichean.
macbone wrote:I'd have to say that it should be proved that the medals were earned as a result of cheating. I'm sorry that I didn't read the whole thing, symmetry, and maybe I would if I had more time, but if it could be shown that medals were earned as a direct result of cheating, fine.
But I'd disagree with saying that all multis should be stripped of their medals (which seems to be what some people in this thread are calling for.)
People create multis for various reasons. If, say, someone created five multis so they could play all their multis on random games to win random medals, then obviously, yeah, strip 'em of those medals. Or if someone creates a multi, enters a doubs tournament with that multi, and wins the tournament, strip that person of the tournament medal.
But if someone's gained X number of medals by playing other people, and they've created multi(s) to, I dunno, play other games, then I don't think that person should be stripped of their medals. I'm in favor of the punishment fitting the crime. If someone creates a multi, ban that account and strip 'em of premium. Losing a very real $25 seems to me like a much harsher and more appropriate punishment than taking away medals.
Are we including farmers in the "cheaters" category (farming seems to be cheating to me). I'd say any medals earned while farming should be stripped as well - medals are a reward for achieving certain milestones, and if those milestones are achieved unfairly, remove those medals.
Funkyterrance wrote:betiko wrote:even a child molestor could deserve a second chance, depending on what he did, you can't label people (never better said) and put them in the same bag without even a trial. I just think that we should trust the mods judgment and let them decide according to the situation. noted, warning, forum ban, temporary site ban, point reset, medal stripping and guessed. Medal stripping is already something they can do anyway. You are basically asking to give a life sentence for any given crime on the site (as if there wasn't a scale of importance...), which is slightly manichean.
Yeah, a child molestor could deserve a second chance but I don't think they should be babysitting anyone's kids without the parents knowing his/her history.
I feel that banning a player would be the equivalent of a life sentence, what I'm suggesting is more like a criminal record, a red flag if you will. I'm sorry to those who have cheated and may find this concept upsetting but you don't know what it's like to not be a cheater and therefore have no frame of reference. You're what we like to call a sociopath.
As far as being manichean, that's not exactly accurate either since I don't necessarily believe that a cheater is always a "bad person" but in an online gaming setting, it's just about as close as you can get.
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