freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:24 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
macbone wrote:Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common.


Dude, in a clanwar environment this is completely shady.


+1 from every member of the Fallen. This shouldn't be common practice, its CLEARLY against the site rules.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby macbone on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:25 pm

Funky, I understand the rules say that being on another player's account for any reason other than taking a turn or posting to a clan or tournament forum is against the rules and can be busted. But it's not uncommon at all to ask for an opinion from other clanmates on a particular move in a game. In a sunny game, it's no problem - post a link to the game in a PM and discuss it there (or on Skype or MSN for clans that do that, I guess). Foggy makes it difficult to do that. As far as I'm aware, giving advice in a clanmate's game (or even a friend's game) isn't against the rules.

What isn't kosher is one player taking a second player's difficult turn when the second player is fully capable of taking the turn. But giving advice isn't disallowed, is it?
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:28 pm

macbone wrote:Funky, I understand the rules say that being on another player's account for any reason other than taking a turn or posting to a clan or tournament forum is against the rules and can be busted. But it's not uncommon at all to ask for an opinion from other clanmates on a particular move in a game. In a sunny game, it's no problem - post a link to the game in a PM and discuss it there (or on Skype or MSN for clans that do that, I guess). Foggy makes it difficult to do that. As far as I'm aware, giving advice in a clanmate's game (or even a friend's game) isn't against the rules.

What isn't kosher is one player taking a second player's difficult turn when the second player is fully capable of taking the turn. But giving advice isn't disallowed, is it?


It is when you log into someone elses account.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby Lindax on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:58 pm

macbone wrote:Guys, logging onto another player's account to look at a foggy map and give advice is fairly common. If this is against the rules, let's codify it, but there's no reason to single out one player for something that many do on Conquer Club.


This getting worse and worse. I have now seen several TeamCC Members admitting to "doing it', condoning it, or at least admitting they know it's a "fairly common practice".

First of all, of course it's against the rules. The rules are crystal clear. How come seemingly intelligent people don't get it?

Second: You shouldn't be in a clan war or tournament (or any other tournament, actually) if you cannot play the game and/or take your turns. Why the hell do we have the rules about so many games per player in clan wars (for example). And what's the point playing at all if you can't play a game without advice form somebody else?

This is getting ridiculous. High time CC starts implementing the clear and simple rules and get rid of the cheaters!

Lx
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby hwhrhett on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:09 pm

everytime someone says 'every clan does this, which is why i do it' it makes me cringe... its retarded, and these are just bad people rationalizing their shady behaviour. im glad there are official rules and enforcement on this now...
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:10 pm

hwhrhett wrote:everytime someone says 'every clan does this, which is why i do it' it makes me cringe... its retarded, and these are just bad people rationalizing their shady behaviour. im glad there are official rules and enforcement on this now...


There are already rules in place for some of these, not even included in the new rules, that people just seem to be ignoring. Picking and choosing which ones they like to follow.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby Vid_FISO on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:18 pm

IcePack wrote:
hwhrhett wrote:everytime someone says 'every clan does this, which is why i do it' it makes me cringe... its retarded, and these are just bad people rationalizing their shady behaviour. im glad there are official rules and enforcement on this now...


There are already rules in place for some of these, not even included in the new rules, that people just seem to be ignoring. Picking and choosing which ones they like to follow.


The issue now seems to be that people with coloured names accept it as common practice. I don't mind losing, it's something that I'm quite good at after all, but if it's not my actual opponent(s) but someone else pulling their strings just what is the point?
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby Qwert on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:26 pm

well, if some player use this,then what its purpose for some other player to be in clan? Its look that one player can be everything in one clan-leader, player 1,player 2 ,player 3,,,,,,,,, Its like having puppet army.
I know that in mine clan people play on maps what they have best knowledge. People never going to learn how to play,if some other people play on hes account.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby freakns on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:37 pm

qwert wrote:well, if some player use this,then what its purpose for some other player to be in clan? Its look that one player can be everything in one clan-leader, player 1,player 2 ,player 3,,,,,,,,, Its like having puppet army.
I know that in mine clan people play on maps what they have best knowledge. People never going to learn how to play,if some other people play on hes account.

again and again people are misinterpreted what i have said.
i havent take turns for others, i havent even shared my view on games, why is this such a big problem to understand?! both you and Lx are talking about those things. why?!
let me rewrite this in serbian, so im sure you understood me:
nisam igrao poteze umesto drugoga, nisam cak ni davao savete drugima, vec sam se logovao da vidim stanje na fog mapama bez da uticem na igru na bilo koji nacin. jel sada jasnije?
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:43 pm

macbone wrote:Funky, I understand the rules say that being on another player's account for any reason other than taking a turn or posting to a clan or tournament forum is against the rules and can be busted. But it's not uncommon at all to ask for an opinion from other clanmates on a particular move in a game. In a sunny game, it's no problem - post a link to the game in a PM and discuss it there (or on Skype or MSN for clans that do that, I guess). Foggy makes it difficult to do that. As far as I'm aware, giving advice in a clanmate's game (or even a friend's game) isn't against the rules.

What isn't kosher is one player taking a second player's difficult turn when the second player is fully capable of taking the turn. But giving advice isn't disallowed, is it?


Mac, I am entirely sure that you didn't realize that this sort of thing is against the rules but it is. I will admit that I too have done this, one time exactly. It was not a clan game but a friend of mine asked me to look at a game and see what I thought. I later learned that it was against the rules and I haven't done it since nor will I ever do it again. I actually remember feeling pretty guilty afterwards since if I had thought it through more thoroughly I would never have done it. In the moment I was focused on doing a favor for my friend but this was not fair to my friend's opponent and I wish I could take it back.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby Lindax on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:44 pm

freakns wrote:again and again people are misinterpreted what i have said.
i havent take turns for others, i havent even shared my view on games, why is this such a big problem to understand?! both you and Lx are talking about those things. why?!


I talk about breaking the rules.

Ok, I murdered somebody, but hey, I didn't steal his money or in any other way benefited from it.

Question freakns: Was it ok for me to commit the murder?

A rule is a rule, you break the rule, you break the rule.

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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby freakns on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:47 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:Freakns, I realize the point you are trying to make but I think you may underestimate how serious the mods can be about this sort of thing. If you continue to "peek" at other players games you are account sharing. In a perfect world everyone would believe you when you say you don't offer advice but the fact is that people are distrustful of people they don't know in rl. I get the impression that you don't believe that you will get banned for any of this because you consider it trivial but I can assure you that not everyone does. Does admin? Who knows? They won't say even if they do think it's silly because they have a role that requires them to take seriously what the players take seriously.
Ultimately it does come down to you respecting the rules of the site and respecting your peers. If you aren't gaining any advantage by peeking into game by giving advice then why is it such a big deal for you to stop in the interest of your fellow players? I don't think you want to get banned but counting on the fact that you think the matter is trivial is not helping your case.

i dont think its trivial, i think its stupid. i also said, i have no problem of stop doing that, but in that case we are coming down to trust issue. as i said i can easily play this from different IP addresses(since i have dynamic IP address, after rebooting my router i will get different IP address... and i play game regularly from 3 different IP address from which only one is static) and we all share the same flag. so it comes down to trusting me if i say i will not do it anymore, just as it comes down trusting me when i said i havent given any advice or take move instead of someone.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby IcePack on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:49 pm

Freakns it was brought up as well from what macbome said not directed @ you. Perhaps it's best to stay on topic and discuss the rest elsewhere. (macbone comment specifically)
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby freakns on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:50 pm

Lindax wrote:
freakns wrote:again and again people are misinterpreted what i have said.
i havent take turns for others, i havent even shared my view on games, why is this such a big problem to understand?! both you and Lx are talking about those things. why?!


I talk about breaking the rules.

Ok, I murdered somebody, but hey, I didn't steal his money or in any other way benefited from it.

Question freakns: Was it ok for me to commit the murder?

A rule is a rule, you break the rule, you break the rule.

Lx

and i said im fine with taking punishment for something i have done, simple as that.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby macbone on Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:56 pm

Funky, I'm pretty sure giving advice on a game is not against any site rules.

Rules are revised when it's clear that they're not fair (see same sex marriage, legalization of pot, and abolition of slavey for three examples of this). I don't see a victim in what freakns is describing, and although I have no reason or desire to do what he's describing, I can't see that it either harms anyone in the game or fits any but the broadest interpretation of account sharing (ok, so maybe not the broadest - some argue having another player's permanent password would be account sharing, but I'm pretty sure IcePack agrees with me that that's not account sharing).

Does the practice harm someone else? Does it result in an unfair advantage? Does it result in Conquer Club being a less enjoyable place to play? These are the criteria that are lost important to me.

And yeah, sorry for muddying the waters - freakns is describing checking the progress of a game, not giving advice or suggesting strategy.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby Vid_FISO on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:00 pm

freakns wrote: as i said i can easily play this from different IP addresses(since i have dynamic IP address, after rebooting my router i will get different IP address...


You can play from as many different IPa s as you like, if the accounts that you log into don't change theirs frequently then your actions will stand out like a sore thumb.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:17 pm

I am locking this. If you have any information on the complaint send me a PM. This is not a discussion thread.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[pending]es

Postby Evil Semp on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:52 pm

freakns has received a WARNING for account sharing.

Signing into the account of someone else at your will is not allowed. Some might it is harmless because they aren't posting, leaving advice just looking at games. If you aren't sitting for the account there is NO REASON to log into the account of others.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

Postby Leehar on Tue Dec 11, 2012 4:03 pm

The ruling is pretty reasonable. You can only enter into someone's account for bona fide purposes; Those being whats already set out previously of sitting for them when they're absent (and lest people forget since it's rarely mentioned, updating clan war or tournament OP's that are in the community interest and delayed).

Again, all you have to do if you want to know whats going on in a clan game, is ask the actual players in-game to use a simple tool like Gyazo
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

Postby Lindax on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:58 am

Leehar wrote:The ruling is pretty reasonable. You can only enter into someone's account for bona fide purposes; Those being whats already set out previously of sitting for them when they're absent (and lest people forget since it's rarely mentioned, updating clan war or tournament OP's that are in the community interest and delayed).


Mmmm.... When I was a TD it was most definitely not allowed to edit a post of a TO. If the TO was absent for a short time, just wait until he/she is back. If the TO is awol, somebody should rescue the tournament and create a new thread (with a link to the original thread). No way should people just edit the OP to "help out".

I would think this applies to clan wars as well. If absent a shirt while, be patient. If awol, start a new thread under your own name.

Now, I don't know if this policy has changed, but it may be a good idea to have a current TD, CD or C&A Mod confirm if what Leehar says is allowed or not.

Lx

PS: This may not be the place for this, but I don't know what would be.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

Postby Leehar on Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:08 am

I'm glad you challenged it since I'm not sure when it came about, but it was specifically mentioned as acceptable.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7785#p2865163
  • Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

Postby Lindax on Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:22 am

Leehar wrote:I'm glad you challenged it since I'm not sure when it came about, but it was specifically mentioned as acceptable.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7785#p2865163
  • Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.


Ah, but that's not quite the same as what you originally said: "updating clan war or tournament OP's that are in the community interest and delayed".

You're talking about editing a post of another person. This quote says "posting" in topic".

And how would you read this statement from the Head Tournament Director?:

Night Strike wrote:There's no reason for any account sitter to be updating tournaments as far as I'm concerned.


That would even exclude "posting".

Lx
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

Postby greenoaks on Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:12 pm

Lindax wrote:
Leehar wrote:I'm glad you challenged it since I'm not sure when it came about, but it was specifically mentioned as acceptable.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7785#p2865163
  • Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.


Ah, but that's not quite the same as what you originally said: "updating clan war or tournament OP's that are in the community interest and delayed".

You're talking about editing a post of another person. This quote says "posting" in topic".

And how would you read this statement from the Head Tournament Director?:

Night Strike wrote:There's no reason for any account sitter to be updating tournaments as far as I'm concerned.


That would even exclude "posting".

Lx

i would think if you are sitting for someone it might be reasonable to post in a tournament thread that a game has finished or to post another's name for those challenger types of tournaments.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

Postby chapcrap on Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:31 pm

I agree with Lindax on this matter.
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Re: freakns: Account Sharing[warned]es

Postby SirSebstar on Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:07 pm

i dont agree with lindax on this.
it is because there is a fine line between posting or updating a tournament thread IN GENERAL, or doing be because the thread or TD demands !!! an update.
there have been cases in the past where people had to give a map or simular order to the tournament organizer in order to proceed. if the player was awol, then his sitter could, as an special excemption, send the info from the players account.

same with tournaments. daily updates for a tournament are not mandatory, but if a player is awol (for longer) and his tournament is finished safe for the updating, then the final post is allowed by the sitter. this to ensure that things proceed as smoothly as possible dispite the absense.

note that the general rule is, thou shall not post of another is superseeded by, unless it is obviously and expressly desired by the siterules(including tournament rules).
since i dont do not moderate these rules, i dont know for sure, but thats how I see it anyways
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