[Abandoned] Classic Cities: Cairo

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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [1/1][V4][P1/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:54 am

generalhead wrote:Neat and Unique idea with the conditional borders
This is going to be fun to code.

nicarus wrote:the border rules are awesome, great idea :)

Thanks guys.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [1/1][V4][P1/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:17 am

New territ lines. Going to go with the blue, red and grey lines for colour blind purposes.

Any one with any suggestions on the borders. Swap red and blue, take one of them away or even add one in.
Added another bridge to the north and moved one of the Ra'.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [1/1][V4][P1/2]

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:49 am

koontz1973 wrote:New territ lines. Going to go with the blue, red and grey lines for colour blind purposes.
Any one with any suggestions on the borders. Swap red and blue, take one of them away or even add one in.


could you try shorter parts of coloured borders and mix them in this order: grey/red/grey/red (or grey/blue/grey/blue)?

Every 4 connected regions +1, so if I hold: Haram, Omrania, Monib, Giza, Kari Tuhmos, Dokki I get +2?

to be honest I have not feel that I see city. coul you add any city background instaed green?

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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [1/1][V4][P1/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:09 am

Oneyed wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:New territ lines. Going to go with the blue, red and grey lines for colour blind purposes.
Any one with any suggestions on the borders. Swap red and blue, take one of them away or even add one in.


could you try shorter parts of coloured borders and mix them in this order: grey/red/grey/red (or grey/blue/grey/blue)?

Every 4 connected regions +1, so if I hold: Haram, Omrania, Monib, Giza, Kari Tuhmos, Dokki I get +2?

to be honest I have not feel that I see city. coul you add any city background instaed green?

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It is every 4 territs connected. So with the first 4 you have (Haram, Omrania, Monib, Giza,) +1, grab another region, it goes up to a +2, but depending on the region, it could go to a +3 or +4. It is every 4 regions connected. Remember though, the conditional borders will stop and start bonuses so as you get stronger in the game, bonuses will open up whilst others close down. You may find that taking an opponents region may give him a stronger bonus next round as you will open up his borders. This will make for tricky game play and stratagy will become a nightmare for most players.
As for the city background, no, I tried it and it does not work. It makes the map to fussy and with the conditional borders it needs a simpler background. Sandstone is the texture and that fits the region. But what colour would you like to see for the background and I will bung it on? How about a sandy colour?
Image
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:40 am

now it looks better. maybe you could try also what I advice for coloured borders...

new/old (Ra) faith, I have feel that the idea is from ancient (medieval) egypt. am I right?

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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:47 am

But the borders like that would stop game play. If you have grey red grey red, where do the blue fit in? Then when you get to a certain amount of territs, all territs will become trapped and you cannot move anything at all. More grey needs to be in as it allows for freedom of movement, but the red/blue are there to act as impassables during the game.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:04 pm

koontz1973 wrote:But the borders like that would stop game play. If you have grey red grey red, where do the blue fit in? Then when you get to a certain amount of territs, all territs will become trapped and you cannot move anything at all. More grey needs to be in as it allows for freedom of movement, but the red/blue are there to act as impassables during the game.


here is a misunderstanding. about borders I meant something like this (look at North City Araafa borders).
Click image to enlarge.
image


Oneyed wrote:new/old (Ra) faith, I have feel that the idea is from ancient (medieval) egypt. am I right?


and ones more the same question.

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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:08 pm

I see, the blue and red gets split up into tiny sections. That is a good idea. Will use that as soon as final positions are set.

Other question, what is it you want? I am not clear on what you are trying to say. Do you want me to reword the old faiths?
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:13 pm

koontz1973 wrote:I see, the blue and red gets split up into tiny sections. That is a good idea. Will use that as soon as final positions are set.


glad that I help a little :)
koontz1973 wrote:Other question, what is it you want? I am not clear on what you are trying to say. Do you want me to reword the old faiths?


no. my question is because your Cairo is modern one, with modern borders, modern names (Cairo International Airport), but the old/new faith looks that the map would be from ancient/medieval times.

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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:20 pm

Ah, you are right about the names being modern, but Cairo is a very ancient city. Maybe the words do not really fit as both are not really old/new. Will keep that little extra but re work it to be slightly different.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby Oneyed on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:49 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Ah, you are right about the names being modern, but Cairo is a very ancient city. Maybe the words do not really fit as both are not really old/new. Will keep that little extra but re work it to be slightly different.


I think that it will be hard to do map of ancient/medieval Cairo. as I said the borders of town were different, the quaters were different. so to fit the modern Cairo maybe just change faiths? there are muslims, copts as main religious...

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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby jonofperu on Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:09 pm

Really interesting idea with conditional borders. I like the idea of complicating things for someone as they get stronger to the point where it all opens up again. =D>

I'm confused on the +1 every 4 connected regions bonus.
How does Haram, Omrania, Monib, Giza, Kari Tuhmos give +2?
Either it's 5 connected regions or it's at least 3 potential combinations of 4 (looking at it quickly):
Haram, Omrania, Monib, Giza
Haram, Omrania, Monib, Kari Tuhmos
Omrania, Monib, Kari Tuhmos, Giza

So is it +3?

But then every additional connected region you add increases the number of 4-region combinations exponentially... although it's somewhat limited by which regions can connect to which.

Maybe do something like Route 66:
4 connected regions: +1
5 connected regions: +2
etc.

Is that what you meant?
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [2/1][V5][P1/2]

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:26 am

It is every possible 4 connections. So connect 4 get +1, connect 5, +2, but depending on the next territ, it could go to +3 or +4 depending on where you attack next. Bolauq Aboul-Ela, Fraggala, Sakakini, Islamic Cairo, Downtown. 5 regions but with 4 ways to connect 4 territs.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [3/1][V5.1][P1/3]

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:18 am

Minor update.
Minarets seems like a winner for the auto deploy, but still cannot find anything for the decay. Anyone with an idea? Lastly, with the 4th side of the smaller pyramid, anyone with a bright idea on what should go there?
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [3/1][V5.1][P1/3]

Postby jonofperu on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:15 am

Maybe for decay use a stack of papers or people standing in line? I understand in recent history Egypt has been pretty high on the list of worst countries for bureaucracy.
A "bureaucratic decay" would certainly resonate with me... Spent 5 days trying to renew my driver's license here a few weeks ago. Lots of hour-long lines to have them tell me, "No, you have to go to that other line" and "you need this other form, come back tomorrow".
Aha! People standing in line holding stacks of paper! :lol:
Something like:
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [3/1][V5.1][P1/3]

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:43 am

I also really like the conditional border play, but is there a chance that players will still think the white borders are passable borders as well? Would it help to make them look more like an impassable, or to add a white line to the "bridges" pyramid and say "Borders are only passable at colored sections", or something like that.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [3/1][V5.1][P1/3]

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:49 am

jonofperu wrote:Maybe for decay use a stack of papers or people standing in line? I understand in recent history Egypt has been pretty high on the list of worst countries for bureaucracy.
A "bureaucratic decay" would certainly resonate with me... Spent 5 days trying to renew my driver's license here a few weeks ago. Lots of hour-long lines to have them tell me, "No, you have to go to that other line" and "you need this other form, come back tomorrow".
Aha! People standing in line holding stacks of paper! :lol:
Something like:
Click image to enlarge.
image

Not sure about the paper, I like the symbol I have now as it is the Cairo symbol (on the flag and official things) but the wording needs to be found for it.
Seamus76 wrote:I also really like the conditional border play, but is there a chance that players will still think the white borders are passable borders as well? Would it help to make them look more like an impassable, or to add a white line to the "bridges" pyramid and say "Borders are only passable at colored sections", or something like that.

You are right, the white ones are confusing things a bit. I will probably end up doing all lines with both colours (red or blue) as under 10 and over 31, all become open. When I did the starting count, in 1v1 games, both players start with 11 territs. So if first player attacks, he opens up all borders for player 2. Should make for some interesting starts.

Let me get a draft up with the two colours only to see what it looks like.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [3/1][V5.1][P1/3]

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:52 am

koontz1973 wrote:
Seamus76 wrote:I also really like the conditional border play, but is there a chance that players will still think the white borders are passable borders as well? Would it help to make them look more like an impassable, or to add a white line to the "bridges" pyramid and say "Borders are only passable at colored sections", or something like that.

You are right, the white ones are confusing things a bit. I will probably end up doing all lines with both colours (red or blue) as under 10 and over 31, all become open. When I did the starting count, in 1v1 games, both players start with 11 territs. So if first player attacks, he opens up all borders for player 2. Should make for some interesting starts.

Let me get a draft up with the two colours only to see what it looks like.


Yeah, those games will be pretty fun with that set up.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [3/1][V5.1][P1/3]

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 12:45 pm

This should stop all confusion over the lines. Removed all the grey ones. Now all lines are blue or red. Bridges have new text to say they are passable at all times. Tax is now Bazaars which cost you.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [4/1][V6][P1/3]

Postby Seamus76 on Fri Jan 04, 2013 1:04 pm

Nice. I think you need to move the bridge on the pyramid down a bit, as well as the top left legend.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [4/1][V6][P1/3]

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:33 pm

Seamus76 wrote:... as well as the top left legend.

actually....given this is the large, wouldn't it be better to have larger legend so it is easier to reduce to small and still be legibale in small....shortcut :idea:
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [4/1][V6][P1/3]

Postby jonofperu on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:10 pm

Didn't realize that was the government symbol, so it makes sense I guess. Only without knowing that it just looks like two versions of the same thing since both have/are minarets.

The lines look good now.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [4/1][V6][P1/3]

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:33 am

cairnswk wrote:
Seamus76 wrote:... as well as the top left legend.

actually....given this is the large, wouldn't it be better to have larger legend so it is easier to reduce to small and still be legibale in small....shortcut :idea:

Top left legend can be scaled down from what it is now and still be read in the small. Been down the small map/bad text road before so it is one of the things I automatically do now when choosing a text. But will make it larger though.
jonofperu wrote:Didn't realize that was the government symbol, so it makes sense I guess. Only without knowing that it just looks like two versions of the same thing since both have/are minarets.

The lines look good now.

Not sure if it is a government symbol. It came of the flag. The seal of the city also uses the same but with a sun in the background. One of the things Cairo is famous for is shopping.
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [4/1][V6][P1/3]

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:23 am

Next one. Fixes the legend issue pointed out by cairns.
Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: Classic Cities: Cairo [5/1][V6][P1/4]

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:19 am

Nice start on a Cairo map, but I feel like its missing some of the key elements that define Cairo when experiencing it in person. Maybe it's because I am a massive tourist, but I feel like a lot of the landmarks that made Cairo interesting are missing. A collection bonus is beginning to get cliché for city maps right now, but it is one possible route to go. I wish I could think of something more novel than a collection bonus, but that's all I got right now. Well, you could just put in little pictures indicating significant places and put in no bonus, just have them in there for decoration.
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