A new year, a new foundry!

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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:55 am

koontz1973 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:how many of our current mapmakers got their first idea all the way to Quenched ?

how many would have received a ban for the early attempts before their current success ?


Out of the ones with maps quenched:
koontz - yes -Rorke's Drift
Flapcake - yes - Kingdom of Denmark
Seamus76 - yes - Tribal War Florida
Oneyed - Not yet but it is very close to beta (CSFR)
dana1971 - Not yet (Cow)
Lancelot du Lac - Not yet (France 2.1)
Vaughn03 - Not yet (Battle for Spice islands)
generalhead - Not yet (Alamo)

The others in the main foundry are either blue boys or cairns. But Flaps, Seamus and myself all made it through first time. As for the others in the foundry right now like Oneyed, the only thing stopping them is themselves. I believe I am the only one with a map that could get an unofficial warning (Escape). All the others are clean as a whistle.

that's much better than i thought it would be.

i would just hate to see someone who abandoned 5 maps out of 55 attempts be treated the same as someone who is 5 for 5 with fails.
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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:45 am

greenoaks wrote:it is the same with running tournaments. successfully completing tournaments earns you points to offset any you've acrued from abandoning some.

can something like that be considered here ?


It was considered. Please take a look at the announcement and the additional info i gave with my previous post:

thenobodies80 wrote:Obviously we want to reward serious and committed mapmakers, so we're looking for possible incentives (e.g. a prize for having successfully completed 5 maps in a row)..more info about them soon! ;)

thenobodies80 wrote:It doesn't means you can "stack credits" to abandon future maps, but we might take into consideration the fact you will resecue a your own abandoned map project. So, if for example you reach the 3rd step and after some time you complete the same abandoned map, you might find yourself again at the 2nd step. As said I'm a true "redention" believer. ;)


The policy is not Ten Commandments, it's not written by God...so we can change it slightly if we see that is too restrictive. What I can say for now is to start to live with it, look if it really has a so big negative impact on the mapmaker's production. (i don't think).
I don't understand how people can judge the policy when it has not applied once yet...:-k

Probably the issue is based on the fact the english language uses the same word for too many situations, when my native language (italian) doesn't.
Like I said the policy will be applied with a bit of salt....i'm not going to ban or move any mapmaker on the ladder system without a VERY VERY valid reason. And in most of cases I think the main reason will be that the mapmaker will not update the map for months without giving a reason. To give a couple of quick examples that come to mind:
- Golfe Du St. Laurent (before the contest), abandoned without a valid reason.
- Conquer 500, actually abandoned when it was so close to the completion.
- New Papua Guinea, won a contest, took the prize..then the map was abandoned.

Situation like Golfe du St. Laurent shouldn't happen anymore....do you remember what mess that map caused? Yeah, we did a contest to change something bad into something good, but we can't hope all time that there's a Tisha around that will finish a map just because the original mapmaker found really funny to not finish his own map. Moreover because the origianl mapmaker came after years and posted something like that: viewtopic.php?f=358&t=125279&p=3938977#p3938977

Using conquer 500 again as example (remember that is just an example because the policy is not retroactive)....if dolomite13 won't finish the map he will receive a unofficial warning. But if a day he will finish it, he will find himself again at the starting point. So it is exactly what you're asking greenoaks. ;)

greenoaks wrote:i would just hate to see someone who abandoned 5 maps out of 55 attempts be treated the same as someone who is 5 for 5 with fails.


No, this won't happen. The policy is done exactly to get rid of those "funny" elements that post maps just for the sake of it or abandon them without caring about all the rest that comes with the map process.
If someone start 5 maps and abandon 5 maps...then sorry but mapmaking it's not what he should do.

I'll give an answer to other questions later today, but let me state clear that the policy....considering how it will work...it won't have a real impact on people like cairnswk. We are not so idiot to write a policy to get rid of people like cairnswk, we wrote a policy to give to people like cairsnwk the attention and the time "stolen" by the others who don't take seriously the foundry process.

I think you can get what i mean. Like I said from the start, serious mapmakers has nothing to fear.

Sorry guys, now I have to go...more inputs will come later today.
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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:00 am

its not quite what i was thinking.

with tournaments i have another 60 original ideas to go, that's not including series/franchises. i suspect prolific mapmakers would be like me, they have a database of ideas/concepts to be fleshed.

the problem is if 1 of my tournament ideas turns out to be crap i can push through it to the finish. no harm done. it gets forgotten and buried. noyt so for a mapmaker. they will forever be shamed by that obvious to all NOW, crap idea. thee is no way they can make up for it by completing other maps like i can by completing other tournaments.

now i dont wont to come off as an eddie who argues for argues for arguements sake but i would like to see a formal system where perhaps 1 abandonment is a point but completing 1 removes that point. with tournaments each abandonment takes 10 successful tourneys to erase, but they are easier to complete than a map so please don't be that harsh.
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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:48 am

tbh 1:5 is balanced imo, perhaps I can do 1:3.
In any case it will be 1:1 only for the same map.

It's not to be harsh, it's be serious with what you do. No one force you to draw maps.

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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby cairnswk on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:50 pm

i've been watching the discussion...

tnb...no-one forces us to draw maps, but many of us do it for pleasure, myself included, and as have done many of those who only have on map quenched.

while i appreciate your comments that the system is not targeted at myself (above) and that there is a degree of flexibity in it, i do think that greenoaks has a good idea in that 1 gain (from successfully quenched map) wipes out a previous point loss (from not completing a map or abandonment) against that mapmaker's name. this would then not discourage those who want to try to get a map made to become more serious about completing their efforts.
If the point losses then stack up to -5 or -3 (<-my preference) whatever is decided, then i think a ban or warning might appropriate what ever is the policy you decided.
this would then assist "Drafts" to fulfill a much better function, as long as each idea provided worthy is treated as reasonably serious and not totally negative. I beleive that any idea is worthy of an attempt if it has merit and can be explained. :)
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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:56 pm

mmm....what i do not want is that people can stack points. The biggest number should be 0 imo.
Things like I did 3 maps so now i can throw away 3 maps is what i do not want. (numbers are casual)
If we make it to something like if you abandon 3 and then you quench 3 you're at 0, then i think i'm fine with it. :)

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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:51 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:mmm....what i do not want is that people can stack points. The biggest number should be 0 imo.
Things like I did 3 maps so now i can throw away 3 maps is what i do not want. (numbers are casual)
If we make it to something like if you abandon 3 and then you quench 3 you're at 0, then i think i'm fine with it. :)

i like that compromise
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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby ender516 on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:15 am

Yes. This would be what we call a demerit point system, similar to what is used with driving licenses. You start at zero with a clean record. Offenses add demerit points (which are bad) and as various levels are reached, restrictions apply. Remedial work and/or good behaviour clears points from your record.
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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:23 pm

So, after the recent discussion this is the revised policy for Abandoned Map Projects:

Abandoned Maps Policy

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I think that now you're all happy with it and you can't say that the above system is not fair. ;)

Oneyed wrote:or you realy mean that after 3rd Abandoned map (map X) mapmaker can not work on his another map (map Y) or also can not "relive" his another map (map Z)?

About this, if you abandon 3 maps you can't start a NEW map project having the same role. This was done because maybe you don't have the time to draw a map but you can have the time to write the xml for the next one. So if you find yourself at the 3rd step and you were the graphics developer of that map, you won't be allowed to draw a new map project for the next 3 months. (the same for any other role you can have in the development)
Instead if you abandon 4 maps, you can't start any other map project or have any role into any new other map project.
The ban doesn't apply on pre-existing projects that are currently under development. This was done because it would be silly otherwise. The ban is given because you abandon a map, not to don't allow you to finish other maps you're working on. Again we want you finish your maps.

So using your example, if you abandon the map X and the map Y is already in development (draft stamp), you can continue the map Y and you can also restart to work on another map (Z) that was abandoned before the ban (again if the map has already received the draft stamp).
What you're not allowed to do is to start a new one when you're not able to finish what you've already started.
Is it clear how it works now? O:)

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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby Oneyed on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:16 pm

yes it is clear now.
thanks nobodies.

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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:18 pm

We have not finished yet...expect some other news in few days. 8-[

Stay Tuned! ;)

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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:42 pm

Here we are.

I had to wait some days since I didn't want to make confusion with colors etc etc, but now I can officially announce something that maybe some of you have already noticed.

As you know, one of the best mod of this site has recently decided to step down due real life reasons. It was a very sad news for me to know that Gilligan was going to leave the Team CC, first because few have been able to give a so extraordinary contribution to this site like him and also because I consider him a good friend of mine.

Even if I understand and respect the reasons behind his decision, I can't live with the idea to not have him around like before. So using the friendship power and some kind word, I've convinced him to spend some time in the foundry and help us in one of things he knows the most: XML.

For this reasons, even if with an unofficial capacity, I'm pleased to announce that from today Gilligan is our primary XML Checker.
He will help me and the blue team in ensure that the code for your maps is properly written and everything is in the right place; I'm sure that with his help we will be able to speed up a bit more the process.

Just a small note: Gilligan is the primary XML checker and he will be your main contact when your XML file has to be checked and approved, so he will probably demand to you some small changes if required and things like that...but please remember that is no more Team CC, so if you have a big issue (high time consuming) with xml or if you have questions that are related with the mapmaking process or how to use XML features, please consider to contact me and I'll be happy to give you a hand in any case.

So, please give a warm "welcome" to Gilligan! =D>
Thank you for your help mate :)

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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby ender516 on Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:41 am

Oh, nobodies, you smooth talker, you snagged Gilligan. Well done!
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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby Gilligan on Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:48 pm

Haha, ender. ;)

Just to clarify a bit of nobodies' statement, my door is open if you want to learn the basics of XML, I can guide you through either my way of doing it, or the public tutorial.
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Re: A new year, a new foundry!

Postby Aleena on Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:35 am

I'm a noob....
I'm also trying to build a map...
I hear from above on this thread that the community want's to give a negative point system for those whom abandoned a map.... I do not know much of this point system - but I feel to punish someone for abandoning a project that is clearly highly subjective based on those whom are controlling the Foundry and not really set in any clear achievable standard is wrong.

The whole stamping practice needs to be changed... Currently I've been help back in the draft stage because my graphics are not up to some unclear standard. (Basically those controlling the Foundry feels that the graphics can be better) I'm not even on the graphic stamp section yet, and based on the Draft Stamp guide lines - I have met all standards. So if after some time of re-doing this map over and over again - and If I still do not get clear directions on what is wrong with the work, but keep being held back because of one or two peoples opinions about it's over all appearance could make many give up and abandon the map. It would not be their fault, but that of the Foundry for preventing them from moving forward with out giving them clear reasons why. "Your graphics can be better, is not a clear reason... What is wrong with my graphics, is it all from the water to the text, or is it only part?" Plus they should not assume that all players whom want to contribute are graphic artists.

I feel they should be easier on those whom are trying - and maybe offer a grading scale for each map - based on a voting rank the players whom played it, gave it. These ranks will start with the beta testers and move on to actual game play. Then when a player wishes to start a game they have 3 tabs to select their game from:
4+ star games, 3+ Star games, Less then 3 Star games...
All games will be sorted and displayed based on their ranking given to them, not by the Foundry but by the community based on:
1) Graphics
2) Game Play
3) Enjoyment
4) Fairness
As players continue playing these games they can continue being graded at the end of each match, just as we currently rank other players. Then maybe after 6 months or 1 year any game that fails to move up to 3 stars or more will be removed from the database. This way all players trying to build their map will be able to - plus once in Beta and beyond they can receive a ranking progress report with suggestions if any of changes, by the actual community instead of by the Foundry. This will both prevent many maps from being abandoned as well as insure that this site maintains a high quality of game designs based off the views of the actual players.

This is just my 2 cents...
Though I'm new and it most likely does not mean much.
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