What specific gun control measures would you support?

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What proposed gun control measures do you support?

None of These
7
5%
Prosecute People Who Lie on Felony-Record Background Checks
38
27%
Add the Names of the Known Mentally Disturbed to Background Check Database, in Addition to Felons
30
21%
Create a Registry of Who Owns What Firearms
14
10%
Require a Government-Issued License to Purchase
18
13%
Reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban
22
15%
Require Firearms be Stored at a Gun Range or in a Government-Inspected Vault in the Home
10
7%
Ban all Firearms
3
2%
 
Total votes : 142

What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:44 am

Prosecute People Who Lie on Felony-Record Background Checks
In 2009, the FBI reported 71,000 cases. The DOJ only prosecuted 77 of them.
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/l ... 86006.html


Add the Names of the Known Mentally Disturbed to Background Check Database, in Addition to Felons
Under DOJ’s proposal, agencies like the Social Security Administration would have to alert the F.B.I. if they were sending checks to a trustee because a beneficiary had been ruled mentally incompetent.
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/l ... 86006.html


Create a Registry of Who Owns What Firearms
"I think under the Heller decision, registration would be constitutional," Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation in Bellevue, Wash., told CBSNews.com this week. "It doesn't make it good public policy." At the moment, a minority of states including New York, Maryland, California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts require mandatory registration for handguns.

This isn't a mere abstraction: four years ago, after Hurricane Katrina laid waste to much of New Orleans, local police, the National Guard, and U.S. Marshals began breaking into homes at gunpoint and confiscating lawfully-owned firearms.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504383_162- ... 04383.html


Require a Government-Issued License to Purchase
A Possession and Acquisition Licence is a licence that allows individuals in Canada to possess and acquire firearms as well as ammunition. Licences are typically valid for five (5) years and must be renewed prior to expiry to maintain all classes. Individuals who wish to possess or acquire firearms, and acquire ammunition in Canada, must have a valid Possession and Acquisition Licence. This licence is distributed exclusively by the RCMP and is generally obtained in the following three steps: safety training, application, security screening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession ... on_Licence


Reinstate Federal Assault Weapons Ban
The Federal Assault Weapons Ban ... was a federal law in the United States that included a prohibition on the manufacture for civilian use of semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following: folding stock, pistol grip, bayonet, grenade launcher, flash suppressor. The Act also defined and banned 'large capacity ammunition feeding devices', which generally applied to magazines or other ammunition feeding devices with capacities of greater than a certain number of rounds. The now defunct federal ban set the limit at 10 rounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_As ... eapons_Ban


Require Firearms be Stored at a Gun Range or in a Government-Inspected Vault in the Home

Ban all Firearms
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:43 am

In order to preserve the unity of the state as well as to receive free blow jobs, we must ban all firearms; otherwise, the dissenting elements will deprive us of our God-given and/or natural rights through which we interact with each other on a more equal basis. Without such a ban, our moral sanctity will be lost, our children will be destroyed in meaningless conflicts, and we shall be deprived of blow jobs.

A vote for blow jobs banning all firearms is a vote for freedom, unity, and long-lasting peace. Any vote for the other options will lead to damnation and blue-balling.
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Postby 2dimes on Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:45 pm

You forgot, "Use two hands."
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:32 pm

I voted for mandatory gun lockers and for government licenses. Both of those things are reasonable restrictions on gun ownership (as someone who cannot even pass a minimum training course is not likely to be able to effectively use a firearm in self-defense; and because of the harm of children or other unauthorized people gaining access to your weapons, for the former).
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby KoolBak on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:38 pm

The bad guys would definitely follow those laws. Every gun owner I know is a hunter as well and all hunters are required to pass an authorized Hunters Safety Program prior to acquiring hunting licenses....just sayin.

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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:52 pm

KoolBak wrote:The bad guys would definitely follow those laws. Every gun owner I know is a hunter as well and all hunters are required to pass an authorized Hunters Safety Program prior to acquiring hunting licenses....just sayin.


The intent of the training and safety courses is not to diminish the number of gun owners but to increase the effectiveness in self-defense of those who do own firearms. Isn't this something we can all get behind?
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby Borderdawg on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:42 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:I voted for mandatory gun lockers and for government licenses. Both of those things are reasonable restrictions on gun ownership (as someone who cannot even pass a minimum training course is not likely to be able to effectively use a firearm in self-defense; and because of the harm of children or other unauthorized people gaining access to your weapons, for the former).


Tell me Mets, what kind of training are we talking about? Is the training a one time thing, or timed renewal? Will a fee(tax) be charged? Any circumstances you could see for exemptions? And the mandatory locker thing, could you expand on that? What kind of government approved home gun vault do you envision?
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Postby 2dimes on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:50 pm

Borderdawg wrote: And the mandatory locker thing, could you expand on that? What kind of government approved home gun vault do you envision?

I don't really know if I'm for having a bunch of people that would be needed to do inspections but I'd like to see weapons stored properly in something with a good solid structure when they are idle. In the closet isn't really my idea of a good idea though I'm being a hypocrite as I know a few people doing something like that and I'm not phoning them to ask they get a vault of somekind.

Most of the gun safes I see in a place like Bass Pro shops seem good. I realise it's only a deterrent but...
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby CBlake on Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:58 pm

Numbers 1, 3, 4, and 5
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:06 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
KoolBak wrote:The bad guys would definitely follow those laws. Every gun owner I know is a hunter as well and all hunters are required to pass an authorized Hunters Safety Program prior to acquiring hunting licenses....just sayin.


The intent of the training and safety courses is not to diminish the number of gun owners but to increase the effectiveness in self-defense of those who do own firearms. Isn't this something we can all get behind?


If someone really requires such training, then let them and/or their friends convince them to voluntarily take such classes.

Compulsory self-defense classes that are monopolized by the government are unnecessary.
And mandatory gun lockers would reduce the effectiveness of self-defense at the home.
Together, your two policies are counter-productive, thus wasteful.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby KoolBak on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:25 pm

I lock up the majority of my guns (in a bigass 3,000 pound safe) because they're valuable....not to hide them from a potential thief.

The loaded, accessible weapons hidden throughout my house are to deter (permanently) the potential thief; the signs outside that say "Criminals Will Be Shot; Survivors Will Be Shot Again" and "Protected By a Doberman" have been effective for over 25 years..... :)
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:20 pm

This is from an Australian university so the research may have consisted of a couple roo hunters checking-out their buddies trailer outside Alice Springs while on a beer run, but, for what it's worth ...

Safe Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime
It is frequently assumed that safe storage gun laws reduce accidental gun deaths and total suicides, while the possible impact on crime rates are ignored. However, given existing work on the adverse impact of other safety laws, such as safety caps for storing medicine, even the very plausible assumption of reduced accidental gun deaths cannot be taken for granted. Our paper analyzes both state and county data spanning nearly twenty years, and we find no support that safe storage laws reduce either juvenile accidental gun deaths or suicides. Instead, these storage requirements appear to impair people's ability to use guns defensively. Because accidental shooters also tend to be the ones most likely to violate the new law, safe storage laws increase violent and property crimes against low risk citizens with no observable offsetting benefit in terms of reduced accidents or suicides. During the first five full years after the passage of the safe storage laws, the group of fifteen states that adopted these laws faced an annual average increase of over 300 more murders, 3,860 more rapes, 24,650 more robberies, and over 25,000 more aggravated assaults. On average, the annual costs borne by victims averaged over $2.6 billion as a result of lost productivity, out-of-pocket expenses, medical bills, and property losses.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... _id=228534
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby thegreekdog on Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:57 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
KoolBak wrote:The bad guys would definitely follow those laws. Every gun owner I know is a hunter as well and all hunters are required to pass an authorized Hunters Safety Program prior to acquiring hunting licenses....just sayin.


The intent of the training and safety courses is not to diminish the number of gun owners but to increase the effectiveness in self-defense of those who do own firearms. Isn't this something we can all get behind?


If someone really requires such training, then let them and/or their friends convince them to voluntarily take such classes.

Compulsory self-defense classes that are monopolized by the government are unnecessary.
And mandatory gun lockers would reduce the effectiveness of self-defense at the home.
Together, your two policies are counter-productive, thus wasteful.


I wonder if we can make an analogy to something else - another tool that causes many deaths for which you have to take a test before operating. Let's try to brainstorm.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby Timminz on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:21 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
KoolBak wrote:The bad guys would definitely follow those laws. Every gun owner I know is a hunter as well and all hunters are required to pass an authorized Hunters Safety Program prior to acquiring hunting licenses....just sayin.


The intent of the training and safety courses is not to diminish the number of gun owners but to increase the effectiveness in self-defense of those who do own firearms. Isn't this something we can all get behind?


If someone really requires such training, then let them and/or their friends convince them to voluntarily take such classes.

Compulsory self-defense classes that are monopolized by the government are unnecessary.
And mandatory gun lockers would reduce the effectiveness of self-defense at the home.
Together, your two policies are counter-productive, thus wasteful.


I wonder if we can make an analogy to something else - another tool that causes many deaths for which you have to take a test before operating. Let's try to brainstorm.


I think I might have a clue as to what you're talking about. If I'm correct, then one of them is a tool designed to kill, while the other is not but does sometimes.

It's pretty interesting (dumbfounding, really) that the tool with non-lethal intentions requires a license, while the one intended to kill does not.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby Army of GOD on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:23 pm

1 and 2 seem almost obvious so I voted for them.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:27 pm

saxitoxin wrote:This is from an Australian university so the research may have consisted of a couple roo hunters checking-out their buddies trailer outside Alice Springs while on a beer run, but, for what it's worth ...


The authors conclude with the following statement:

The impact of safe storage laws are consistent with existing research indicating that the guns which are most likely to be used in an accidental shooting are owned by the least law-abiding citizens and thus are least likely to be locked up after the passage of the law. The safe storage laws thus manage to produce no significant change in accidental deaths or suicides and yet still raise crime rates because households with low accidental death risks are now the ones to most likely to obey the law.


This is an issue with implementation and enforcement, not necessarily the idea itself, of course. How strongly the two issues are linked is not something we can necessarily answer with the limited sample size we have of states that have tried this (and many of them were requiring trigger lock type things instead of gun vaults).

What I can say is that we still have a lot of room for improvement before we should dismiss the gun vault idea.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:30 pm

thegreekdog wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
KoolBak wrote:The bad guys would definitely follow those laws. Every gun owner I know is a hunter as well and all hunters are required to pass an authorized Hunters Safety Program prior to acquiring hunting licenses....just sayin.


The intent of the training and safety courses is not to diminish the number of gun owners but to increase the effectiveness in self-defense of those who do own firearms. Isn't this something we can all get behind?


If someone really requires such training, then let them and/or their friends convince them to voluntarily take such classes.

Compulsory self-defense classes that are monopolized by the government are unnecessary.
And mandatory gun lockers would reduce the effectiveness of self-defense at the home.
Together, your two policies are counter-productive, thus wasteful.


I wonder if we can make an analogy to something else - another tool that causes many deaths for which you have to take a test before operating. Let's try to brainstorm.


DMV and driving licenses come to mind. Their record is about 36,000 fatalities on government roads and highways per year. Since management (government) is the fundamental cause, then the government is largely to blame for failing to more effectively curb such deaths associated with the use of their products (roads, driving licenses, etc.).

Oh wait, this analogy doesn't help Mets' position at all!
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby saxitoxin on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:30 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:This is an issue with implementation and enforcement, not necessarily the idea itself, of course.


While true, it logically places the onus on supporters of gun safes to ideate and present a program that is significantly different from every other program previously attempted before further advocacy on the concept as well as to describe the legal mechanism by which it could be accomplished (that is, some method that would not be a violation of the 4th Amendment).
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:53 pm

A few of those are fawking scary, particularly number 6. You're one sick individual just for even mentioning/listing it, saxi.
I'm all about punishment after a fact, and severely. Except for the assault weapon one, those things are just ridiculous.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby tzor on Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:01 pm

A few thoughts:
  • Create a Registry of Who Owns What Firearms: Too many guns to monitor; even legal guns are too fluid; illegal ones are even more so.
  • Require a Government-Issued License to Purchase: What government? I worry that it would be too easy to forge. Underage kids get booze all the time with forgeries. Crooks >> Kids
  • Reinstate the Assault Weapons Ban: Is a crappy feel good law that did nothing. Columbine happened during the ban. I know people wonder why anyone in their right mind would want one but if you are defending your store in an urban area from a riot mob abandoned by the local police (true story) you need to be as much "A-Team" as possible. (Grant you that in the case of a small occupy mob all you need is a loud sounding pump action double barrel shotgun (also a true story).
  • Require Firearms be Stored at a Gun Range or in a Government-Inspected Vault in the Home: You know some people love to display a rifle over the moose head in the hunting lodge. I can't see how this would be enforced, although it is common sense.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby PLAYER57832 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:03 pm

A massive registry has several problems. From a practical perspective, it requires a lot of time and energy. If you have a registry, then there has to be a penalty for people who don't register or its pointless. If you penalize people for not registering guns, then it winds up intruding on a LOT of people's privacy for no good end.

And, is a registry really going to be useful in preventing violance? The basic answer is that it will provide a way for the government to come in an seize guns from legal gun owners, basically law-abiding citizens -- like they did in New Orleans and like they have done historically in the past in other countries. A registry does NOT do a thing to prevent crime, not really.

Back ground check is reasonable. I would like to see a few of the existing loopholes sealed. Buying a gun at a gun show, at a minimum, should require a check. Tracking private purchases would be more difficult, but is something worth considering if we want checks to work. Similarly, I can definitely see cause to add some people with mental illness, BUT we have to be very, very cautious here. People tend to target folks who are just "different" and see them as being some kind of threat.. even if the real evidence is that 99.999% of those people are not a threat. To be effective, a registry of people with mental illnesses needs to happen only after a lot more research. The current approach of targeting behavior is probably better overall. We are not yet able to really predict who will or will not wind up being a killer... with a few exceptions.

Exceptions to the "we don't know who will be a killer". I would like to see limits placed on people who abuse animals. People who actively abuse animals (not just neglect them or "hoard" them, I mean people who torture them for fun) often wind up hurting humans next. IN some cases, I think juvenile convictions in this regard.. and certain kinds of rape ought to be carried over into adulthood, though with a great deal of caution and some stop gap measures to ensure that a kid isn't, say targeted for life because he got mad at age 10 and hit a dog. On the other hand, if he had a habit of collecting neighborhood strays and doing "experiments" on them... well, maybe. Similarly, we already target the teenager who basically pissed off his girlfriend's parents a bit too much, but the boy who rapes his 5 year old neighbor at age 11 might need to be tracked.. or at least, the file should be tagged so that it might be visible IF other events happen later (if he is convicted of other rapes, etc.). Anyway, those types of people probably ought not to have guns.


People who knowingly try to buy a bun when they are on the "do not buy" list ought to be at least tracked. I am not necessarily comfortable with putting someone in jail for trying once.. particularly if there is any chance that there could have been some confusion on the part of the person applying as to whether they were eligible or not. However, if someone tries again to buy a gun after being turned down.... that ought to engender some penalty, perhaps jail.

Other than that, I think the concentration should be on better mental health care, and better training of youth about positive gun use. When the only association people have with guns is violance, then of course they are used for violence.

Along those lines, gun owners have to take more responsibility for teaching and using guns safely. The stray bullet that hits a pregnant woman in her car in her driveway hurts every hunter -- no matter how reasonable the use was deemed by the law.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby tzor on Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:20 pm

One of the things I see with gun shows is that (and I admit I could be wrong here) I don't think they are spur of the moment things. It's not like your typical buyer of guns is going to say, "Hey, there is a gun show tomorrow, let me just get a ticket at the door." I would assume that these things are anticipated and planned for weeks, if not months, in advance. So why can't you select an option to have the gun show pre-background check you when you order the tickets (or x number of days before the show so that the results arrive before the show starts). That way, they can hand you a proper clearance right there on the spot. I think the whole gun show issue is a smelly red herring.

And by the way, least anyone not notice this, tzor and Player57832 are in perfect agreement on an issue. Somebody stop the presses. Let's do a group hug.

Although do you really don't want Michael Vick to own a gun? Well, I guess I don't want him to either. Still perfect agreement!
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Postby 2dimes on Sat Jan 12, 2013 7:22 pm

I don't want people to have a vault so all the guns are locked up putting them out of commision. (might be an ok idea but..)

I don't mind if Playa wants to arm herself with several fire arms to move from one location to another in her house. I just want to make it more difficult for someone to walk in and take firearms that are not being used from under the towel while you're out. Goofy Doberman is possibly more effective than a metal box with some sort of lock on it.

If the wrong person wants your gun they'll get it. I just want to make it a tiny bit tougher.
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Re: What specific gun control measures would you support?

Postby Night Strike on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:59 pm

I support banning automatic weapons and heavy weapons (like RPGs) as well as making sure violent felons are kept from owning guns.
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Postby 2dimes on Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:03 pm

Question about banning weapons. I'm not against that but wonder.

Do you try to completely prevent them from existing or restrict them to military use or somthing?
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