The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Old Version)

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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:42 pm

chapcrap wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:It has always been against site rules to be in someones account for any other reason than to sit a turn.

Does this include not logging in for people who are inactive so that you can edit their forum posts with the private clan forum?


Editing war threads is fine, as long as you are not involved in games
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby crispybits on Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:53 pm

Nicky15 wrote: The hour rule is being discussed with Clan reps and whatever the majority decide in regards to that will determine if that is changed or not.


Can I just ask why our nominated clan rep for clan FISO hasn't been invited to any new usergroup or discussions yet please?

(not having a go, I'm sure it's just an admin oversight)
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:43 pm

Nicky15 wrote:Many people are/were unaware of even the existing site rules, as proven by the posts in this threads. So yes we have cleared up grey areas for many.


Making a new set of rules to restate existing rules isn't clearing up a "grey area" and especially when some of the directors are claiming you guys "put alot of thought into these." You put alot of thought into how to repeat what the site already says?

I appreciate you reviewing the 1-hour thing. If someone's abusing existing site rules by taking turns excessively when they were not specifically asked to do so, they can do that excessive taking at 1 hour till as easy as 3 hours till; but if someone says, "I'm not sure if I'll be on tonight, will you watch my games for me?" it can be mighty inconvenient to have to wait (to avoid any questions).

When I read through the comments in this thread, it looks like no one's objecting to cracking down on excessive use of "sitting." I'm not the only one, however, who objects to the idea that it's not excessive at 1 hour but it's excessive at 3 hours, which is what these rules currently imply.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:33 am

stahrgazer wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:Many people are/were unaware of even the existing site rules, as proven by the posts in this threads. So yes we have cleared up grey areas for many.


Making a new set of rules to restate existing rules isn't clearing up a "grey area" and especially when some of the directors are claiming you guys "put alot of thought into these." You put alot of thought into how to repeat what the site already says?

I appreciate you reviewing the 1-hour thing. If someone's abusing existing site rules by taking turns excessively when they were not specifically asked to do so, they can do that excessive taking at 1 hour till as easy as 3 hours till; but if someone says, "I'm not sure if I'll be on tonight, will you watch my games for me?" it can be mighty inconvenient to have to wait (to avoid any questions).

When I read through the comments in this thread, it looks like no one's objecting to cracking down on excessive use of "sitting." I'm not the only one, however, who objects to the idea that it's not excessive at 1 hour but it's excessive at 3 hours, which is what these rules currently imply.


Last response as i don't think it really matters what I say this may carry on forever. The rules are there so everyone is aware of what they are old, and new. Anyone can see by reading this thread that many people were not even aware of existing rules, so we are quite justified in putting them in black and white. These rules are not hard to follow. They are not here to punish honest players. Have a Merry Christmas.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:48 am

Nicky15 wrote:
Squirly wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:
These rules will come into force Monday after we have had the chance to pm all clan leaders and make sure everyone is aware.

Thanks

The CD team.


so when do these rules come into effect?
I haven't received any pm's from any of you. My co leaders haven't either.
Maybe you've only sent pms to the clans that have caused the need for all these additional rules?
that would actually make sense.


I have looked it up. Ishihara received one on behalf of ID


who recieved it for aka
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:58 am

eddie2 wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:
Squirly wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:
These rules will come into force Monday after we have had the chance to pm all clan leaders and make sure everyone is aware.

Thanks

The CD team.


so when do these rules come into effect?
I haven't received any pm's from any of you. My co leaders haven't either.
Maybe you've only sent pms to the clans that have caused the need for all these additional rules?
that would actually make sense.


I have looked it up. Ishihara received one on behalf of ID


who recieved it for aka


Bruce has the list of people pmed and I am waiting for him to pass it along. I will re-issue the pms when I get the list. As a bunch seem to have gone unread/lost.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby ViperOverLord on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:01 am

Bruceswar wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:We are not trying to make things difficult, less fun.....


And yet, that's precisely what a rule that says you are only to account sit when a game has one hour or less does. Do you know how freaking annoying that is?


The one hour rule was put into place so it gives the player every chance to take his own turn. I think we both know that this is why we have it at an hour. This is to keep the abuse from happening.


I don't know if any progress has been made in the last 18 pages. Assuming not__ The one hour rule is a freaking terrible rule. I'm not going to sugar coat it. All of the sudden, account sitters need to get up at 3 in the morning if the turn is ending at that time? That's just freaking terrible. That'd be worse than not allowing account sitting at all.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:17 am

ViperOverLord wrote:I don't know if any progress has been made in the last 18 pages. Assuming not__ The one hour rule is a freaking terrible rule. I'm not going to sugar coat it. All of the sudden, account sitters need to get up at 3 in the morning if the turn is ending at that time? That's just freaking terrible. That'd be worse than not allowing account sitting at all.


If you are a legit account sitter (meaning someone is away from the site) you can take the turn at any time. I know you didn't read the last 18 pages, but you could have at least read the first post.

As for the one hour, that is only when you do not have explicit permission from that person to cover turns for the immediate future. One hour is being generous as you really shouldn't ever be on someone's account without permission.

I know it sucks to have missed turns, but thinking back to G1's recent wars it happens to us maybe once per war? It's a team competition and part of the team dynamic is knowing you can trust people to take their own turns. A missed turn is part of the overall (lack of) strength of the clan. But seriously... is it THAT big of a deal to have a rare missed turn? You guys are arguing over something that should not happen more than in extremely rare circumstances anyways.

Are your clanmates that unreliable that they disappear without asking someone to cover for them on a regular basis? Maybe you shouldn't be placing those individuals in important games.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby ViperOverLord on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:26 pm

^^^

Who the heck is concerning themselves with whether advance permission was given for account sitting? And even if he/she/they did, it'd require a tedious investigation. If over-use of account sitting is a problem, then I have no problem with discussing potential options. But this current rule does not seem to even be practical.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:54 pm

considering it is to eliminate excessess, its then perfect.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:18 pm

Bones2484 wrote:I know it sucks to have missed turns, but thinking back to G1's recent wars it happens to us maybe once per war? It's a team competition and part of the team dynamic is knowing you can trust people to take their own turns. A missed turn is part of the overall (lack of) strength of the clan. But seriously... is it THAT big of a deal to have a rare missed turn? You guys are arguing over something that should not happen more than in extremely rare circumstances anyways.

Are your clanmates that unreliable that they disappear without asking someone to cover for them on a regular basis? Maybe you shouldn't be placing those individuals in important games.


Watch out bones, your attempt to cut through bullshit will not be well received. ;)
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:56 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:Watch out bones, your attempt to cut through bullshit will not be well received. ;)


I'm used to it by now! But someone has to call out the obvious.

I just have an extremely hard time grasping why so many of these hyper-competitive clans appear to have "issues" getting their own turns taken or merely letting someone know they will be away from the site. I consider G1 to be exceptionally casual and, like I said, we very very very rarely have missed turns.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby eddie2 on Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:01 pm

ViperOverLord wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
ViperOverLord wrote:
Nicky15 wrote:We are not trying to make things difficult, less fun.....


And yet, that's precisely what a rule that says you are only to account sit when a game has one hour or less does. Do you know how freaking annoying that is?


The one hour rule was put into place so it gives the player every chance to take his own turn. I think we both know that this is why we have it at an hour. This is to keep the abuse from happening.


I don't know if any progress has been made in the last 18 pages. Assuming not__ The one hour rule is a freaking terrible rule. I'm not going to sugar coat it. All of the sudden, account sitters need to get up at 3 in the morning if the turn is ending at that time? That's just freaking terrible. That'd be worse than not allowing account sitting at all.


some has been made certain rules have been made more clear but as per usual the op thread has not been updated to what else has been said
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby rh-headhunter on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:32 pm

my two cents,i have asked to have people watch my acct from time to time,and have sat for people who were travelling..it is extra work to cover for people in a busy life..i really dont have time to sit and wait for last hour,,if i can log on and make extra plays in a 24 hour timeframe,i feel like im helping a friend and that should be the end of story,,,if somebody is unemployed and running all four in a quads game ,then let him or boot him off site if people cant accept it,,the poor guy has no life and wants to do the best he can at a gameing site..there are worse things to deal with in life..getting four people to play coordinated as a team is a challange and maybe one person taking all the turns is an advantage,,but i dont want to be dealing with any more rules than we already have,,please keep it to a minunum. O:)
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby SirSebstar on Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:39 pm

rh-headhunter wrote:my two cents,i have asked to have people watch my acct from time to time,and have sat for people who were travelling..it is extra work to cover for people in a busy life..i really dont have time to sit and wait for last hour,,if i can log on and make extra plays in a 24 hour timeframe,i feel like im helping a friend and that should be the end of story,,,if somebody is unemployed and running all four in a quads game ,then let him or boot him off site if people cant accept it,,the poor guy has no life and wants to do the best he can at a gameing site..there are worse things to deal with in life..getting four people to play coordinated as a team is a challange and maybe one person taking all the turns is an advantage,,but i dont want to be dealing with any more rules than we already have,,please keep it to a minunum. O:)


if you are sitting for someone who cannot play for himself, and you arranged that, thats fine.
these rules are only to limit those with acces to your pw to take games you could have taken yourself
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby benga on Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:02 pm

I tried to explain to all my clanmates but seems I failed.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:14 am

UPDATE:The one hour rule has been moved to 2 hours. We listened and heard you all loud and clear. We feel this is a good compromise for all parties. You are welcome and enjoy your games.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby macbone on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:18 am

Oh, you guys are wonderful. Thank you so much! 2 hours is much more workable, and it's a compromise I'll be very happy to live with.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby The_Samurai on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:51 am

Can we consider that the rules summarized in the table below are the final rules for now ?

Cheers.

Nicky15 wrote:Howdy folks.

Until we get some sort of sitting feature, we feel we have no choice but to bring in some Clan Sitting Rules. We are aware that this may cause a stir. But please try and remain calm 8-) take a deep breath and take a while to digest and avoid posting any knee jerk reactions ;) We are not trying to make things difficult, less fun or create lots of red tape, just create some fair rules for everyone.

We have been discussing how best to draft these rules over the last three months. We have used a consultation group to gain different perspectives. And have been in consultation with admin. It was very difficult to get a list of rules that covered every possibility whilst remaining simple and easy to follow.

These rules are for the clan arena only, and will cover all clan competitions and tournaments.

What the rules are trying to address

1, We have no clear and defined rule of what is and is not allowed within the clan arena. Therefore judging cases of reported abuse is very difficult. And it is hard to come up with consistent rulings.
2, The lines of what is acceptable in the Clan World have become somewhat blurred.
3, We are aiming to create a fair and level playing field for each and every clan

These rules are simply meant to bring everyone back in line with CC site rules. Your account is yours and yours alone. And you should be the only person logging on and using it unless you are away, or an emergency situation has arisen.

In regards to needing a sitter. Some members are picking and choosing what games they will take, and what games they leave to someone else. If you are in a game you should be the one playing it. The people in the team put forward for any game, should be the only ones involved in that game. There should be no outside influences. If you are away from the site and need a sitter, that is fine. But you must not choose to take some games and leave others to a sitter. You can either take your turns or you can't.

We still want to offer some degree of emergency cover for turns, but they really must be in danger of missing. So that is why the hour mark has been set. We can't keep having excuses like well I was going to bed and didn't know if he would make it back, so I took his turn 8 hours before it expired.

No one should be put in for a game unless they can take the vast majority of their turns. Agreements still can be made between clans in regards to absences, both clans must agree. These games must not include the unlimited setting, or any other setting where an advantage could potentially be had. These agreements should be run past a CD before hand. We couldn't allow for example any agreement that did not see a player taking approximately 70 % of their turns. And would have to question why they were being put forward for a game they couldn't take their turns in.

Finally The Cds will not be throwing the book at people for minor things. We don't want reports like "Joe blogs covered a turn an 1h 30 mins before it was due to expire" minor things may get noted. It is only when these minor things happen on a regular basis then we would need to do something. Again if something unexpected comes up and you need a sitter then you can have one, but if this happens regularly then we will question it. The Cds will take a common sense view when looking at any case. Real life happens and this is a game, we are all aware of that.

Ok The Rules

What has to happen.


Clan members must become responsible for their own turns. Clan members must take all of their own turns unless on vacation. Or an emergency arises.

Basic Rules

1, The announcing in chat, of the name of the person who has covered a turn will now be mandatory.

2, Emergency cover may only be given if the person really is in danger of missing a turn. Therefore a turn can only be covered if there is 2 hours or less left on the clock. But steps must be taken to contact the player before hand.

3, Sitting for the purpose of covering an extended break from the site can carry on as normal, turns can be taken whenever it is convenient, the sitter can add to chat, but the player on vacation must not take turns themselves during this time or add to game chat. Account sitting is for holidays, vacations* and emergencies only.

*The term "vacation" is being used to cover any absence from the site that you have agreed to have someone sit for.

4, You must not enter clan games if you know in advance that you will not be able to take the vast majority of your turns in any game or be unable to take your turns on a regular basis. Having your account sat on a regular basis for the duration of any clan game will no longer be allowed. If you are going to participate in clan games, it should be you who will actually play in these games.

5, You must not be in another persons account for any reason, other than to cover turns while that person is on vacation. Adding to chat in a game you are not in for example will not be allowed. You must also not give permission for anyone to wander in and out of your account at their will. Take care of your account. What happens with it is your responsibility.


In response to the idea that people will just cheat anyway, the hunters will routinely check IPs, and assist us in checking suspicious activity abusing the account sitting rule.

Punishments

Anyone caught breaking these rules will be subject to penalties as determined at the sole discretion of the CD Team. Penalties may include loss of privileges, loss of medals, forfeiture of games, and any other punishment the CD Team deems appropriate.The CD team will take a common sense approach when ruling on each individual case.


Now we know everyone isn't going to like this :o Please feel free to give your views, but if you disagree, please explain the reason why in your post. We don't just want negative comments without some reasoning behind them and alternative suggestions.

It will be easy to keep within the rules. Guidelines include

1, Make sure you inform your clan organizer of any planned vacations in advance
2, If you need a sitter, don't take turns yourself
3, If you are going to cover a teammate that has gone awol, make sure they are actually in danger of missing.
4, Post to say that you have covered a turn
5, Don't go into someone else account unless you are sitting.

These rules will come into force Monday after we have had the chance to pm all clan leaders and make sure everyone is aware.

Thanks

The CD team.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:02 am

Yes.. plus or minus a few word changes. The rules are set for now.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:48 am

There will be a further update on the hour (now 2 hour) rule, it will be more long winded but will remove the common sense element and put what is acceptable in black and white.

This will be updated soon. Along with any minor rewordings. We will post a final set soon. But as of now, work with what is stated.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby The Voice on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:42 am

Great compromise. You CDs deserve a lot of praise. I'm sure it came as no surprise that the introduction of new rules opened a can of worms, but you've all handled it with grace, and I believe we in the clan world will be better because of it.

I think now it's just a matter of informing everyone of the change. It took me a while to find this thread.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Keefie on Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:21 pm

The Voice +1
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules

Postby Nicky15 on Sat Jan 26, 2013 11:04 am

This thread is now closed.

Please use this thread if you have any further comments. http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=438&t=184812 The revised rules are there.

Thank you for your input everyone.
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