Select Amount of Starting Positions

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Would you Like to be able to Select Amount of Starting Positions?

Yes, 1 starting territory or normal drop only
4
33%
Yes, 1 starting territory, half drop, or normal drop only
2
17%
Yes, any number of territories
4
33%
Yes, but don't allow only 1 territory
0
No votes
No, no select # of starting positions
2
17%
 
Total votes : 12

Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby greenoaks on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:35 am

chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

why would you be against playing Classic & starting with 1
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby chapcrap on Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:09 am

greenoaks wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

why would you be against playing Classic & starting with 1

It was already stated.

Because if two people start right next two each other, then it's completely up to dice. It's a bad idea because of that.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:44 am

chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

why would you be against playing Classic & starting with 1

It was already stated.

Because if two people start right next two each other, then it's completely up to dice. It's a bad idea because of that.


So... ?
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:09 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

why would you be against playing Classic & starting with 1

It was already stated.

Because if two people start right next two each other, then it's completely up to dice. It's a bad idea because of that.


So... ?


So, I suspect that basically no one wants to be in a game where they stand a decent chance of being eliminated before even having the chance to take a turn.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:13 pm

Single Tert Battle Royales were fairly popular, except for a few high-rankers, last I checked.

AssDoodle is still a popular setting...
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby greenoaks on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:14 pm

chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

why would you be against playing Classic & starting with 1

It was already stated.

Because if two people start right next two each other, then it's completely up to dice. It's a bad idea because of that.

but you sign up for the game knowing there is a slim chance of that happening. i don't see a problem with it.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby greenoaks on Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:16 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

why would you be against playing Classic & starting with 1

It was already stated.

Because if two people start right next two each other, then it's completely up to dice. It's a bad idea because of that.


So... ?


So, I suspect that basically no one wants to be in a game where they stand a decent chance of being eliminated before even having the chance to take a turn.

if that is the case then those games won't fill, quickly. shouldn't those of us that want to play them be allowed to though.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby Fazeem on Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:40 pm

chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

For random, you just pick the number you want and it would give you a map that would fit the criteria.

I disagree 1 should always be a choice. People should just be choosey about whether they play certain settings just like now. I tend to avoid games with the trench setting that is my preference other love that setting. I honestly feel this options opens up a lot more gameplay opportunities. Only Maps I can see off the back not allowing this for would be doodle and random.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby chapcrap on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:46 pm

Fazeem wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

For random, you just pick the number you want and it would give you a map that would fit the criteria.

I disagree 1 should always be a choice. People should just be choosey about whether they play certain settings just like now. I tend to avoid games with the trench setting that is my preference other love that setting. I honestly feel this options opens up a lot more gameplay opportunities. Only Maps I can see off the back not allowing this for would be doodle and random.

So, you're all for free choice unless it's Doodle Earth? But Luxembourg is ok even though it only has one more territory than Doodle Earth? Your logic does not make sense to me.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby Fazeem on Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:53 pm

chapcrap wrote:
Fazeem wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
greenoaks wrote:my understanding of how this would work is you choose a map, the starting position dropdown would then allow you to select a number between 1 and the normal amount.

but how will this work for random?

I think that 1 should not be a choice for classic style maps.

For random, you just pick the number you want and it would give you a map that would fit the criteria.

I disagree 1 should always be a choice. People should just be choosey about whether they play certain settings just like now. I tend to avoid games with the trench setting that is my preference other love that setting. I honestly feel this options opens up a lot more gameplay opportunities. Only Maps I can see off the back not allowing this for would be doodle and random.

So, you're all for free choice unless it's Doodle Earth? But Luxembourg is ok even though it only has one more territory than Doodle Earth? Your logic does not make sense to me.

I do not play Luxemburg typically so no need to be a douche bag about your response. GIven that data I would say like I said earlier in maps where it is not feasible to use code it to not work like Manual does not work on a number of maps because of the way the maps are set.

Fazeem wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Fazeem wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This is quite an interesting idea. The gameplay would be different enough to perhaps really warrant a new game option. You know some people would have all the players start with one territory though. Imagine what happens if, by chance, two of them are connected? Someone's going to be rather unhappy.

LOL nature of the beast no different then when someone starts off with a bonus or both drop a manual next to other.


It is different though. In manual, if you drop your stack right next to someone else, 1) that is at least partially your fault because you should be guessing where your opponents will drop when you make your deployment and 2) you're not immediately dead if someone autos your stack, and wins. Starting off with a bonus is also not necessarily game-breaking, even in 1v1, even though it's usually a big advantage. In this case, you simply lose straight out if someone goes 6v3 and wins without even getting to take a turn.

the drop is random though so the odds of being right next to someone and having only chosen 1 starting point on most maps is quite a large spread. Not saying it is impossible but unlikely this will ever be more of a factor. The odds are almost as likely for a manual drop and incredible dice to win in one turn to happen as this worst case scenario. Also on a map like doodle earth where this is a likely issue it could be made to not work like manual does not work on some maps.


That all said how does a good idea get vetted and moved to the next steps?
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby chapcrap on Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:19 pm

Sorry if I seemed like a douche, but you didn't really respond to the criticism and your argument still doesn't make sense.

Why exclude Doodle Earth if you are for free choice? Why not exclude Luxembourg if you are for excluding Doodle Earth?
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby Fazeem on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:11 am

chapcrap wrote:Sorry if I seemed like a douche, but you didn't really respond to the criticism and your argument still doesn't make sense.

Why exclude Doodle Earth if you are for free choice? Why not exclude Luxembourg if you are for excluding Doodle Earth?

Actually I did repsond to the criticism in multiple posts 1 of which I quoted already with my last response to the issue but for the record in maps where it is not feasible to work because the territ amount is too low make it not work just like manual does not work on some maps because of how they are made and play conditions. This would include the feudals, the age of and maps like luxemburg and doodle or whatever other maps meet the unrealistic criteria(again nothing is concrete I am just naming some maps I think would have issue with the coding or not make a difference on). Again this option like manual does not need to be able to work on all maps but it would on the majority of maps like manual. Classic though would be an ideal map for 1 starting point and have lower odds then others to be dropped right next to one another. I hope this further reiteration provides some clarity if not I am unsure of what else to say to define it better for you and hope someone else that does grasp what I am stating might be able to better explain.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:19 am

Ok, so you are saying people should be able to choose to play this option with 1 starting territory if they want, because they know the risk they are taking. However, they should not be able to do it if the map is small because that would be unfair.

I understand what you are saying, I'm saying it doesn't make sense. You are arguing on both sides of the fence. You can not argue for choice and for restrictions. That is what I am saying.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby Fazeem on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:47 pm

chapcrap wrote:Ok, so you are saying people should be able to choose to play this option with 1 starting territory if they want, because they know the risk they are taking. However, they should not be able to do it if the map is small because that would be unfair.

I understand what you are saying, I'm saying it doesn't make sense. You are arguing on both sides of the fence. You can not argue for choice and for restrictions. That is what I am saying.

Now I am thinking you are just arguing to be arguing.

Manual does not work on all maps for example Jamaica it does not work on but it potetntially could. What I am saying makes perfect sense for the same reasons manual does not work on certain maps. My argument hinges on the ability to select starting points on the majority of maps on this site which would be a new dynamic of gameplay while it appears yours simply wants to be petty and split hairs because it cannot be used on all maps.

Saying that it should and could be available on most maps is not contradictory to recognising that it might not and probably should not be available on a minscule minority of maps. All that said for the umpteenth time please feel free to continue on with not grasping and wasting mental energies whether intentioanlly or unintentionally on derailing what should be a discussion on how to implement and best use this great idea.
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Re: Select Amount of Starting Positions

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:11 pm

Fazeem wrote:
chapcrap wrote:Ok, so you are saying people should be able to choose to play this option with 1 starting territory if they want, because they know the risk they are taking. However, they should not be able to do it if the map is small because that would be unfair.

I understand what you are saying, I'm saying it doesn't make sense. You are arguing on both sides of the fence. You can not argue for choice and for restrictions. That is what I am saying.

Now I am thinking you are just arguing to be arguing.

Manual does not work on all maps for example Jamaica it does not work on but it potetntially could. What I am saying makes perfect sense for the same reasons manual does not work on certain maps. My argument hinges on the ability to select starting points on the majority of maps on this site which would be a new dynamic of gameplay while it appears yours simply wants to be petty and split hairs because it cannot be used on all maps.

Saying that it should and could be available on most maps is not contradictory to recognising that it might not and probably should not be available on a minscule minority of maps. All that said for the umpteenth time please feel free to continue on with not grasping and wasting mental energies whether intentioanlly or unintentionally on derailing what should be a discussion on how to implement and best use this great idea.

Disagreement is not being petty. I'm trying to understand your thought process. Why do you think it can work with 1 territory to start, but it can't work on Doodle Earth?

As far as my thoughts, I see no reason why this shouldn't be allowed on smaller maps. There just needs to be a way to make sure it's coded properly for maps like Feudal War, King's Court, Clandemonium, etc., or just not used for maps like that.

My thought is that there needs to be some measurable way to decide a range of options that is appropriate for each map. I like that 3-whatever the normal starting positions are is a good idea for that. I would like to be able to go above 14 on Classic, but that can't be done for games that aren't 1v1. So, I think a blanket statement of only allowing the normal starting position number should be the rule.
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