Make Suggestions a two-way street

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Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby ender516 on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:15 pm

Concise description:
  • The Suggestions forum is a splendid method for incubating community-generated ideas to improve the site. However, not all site updates pass through this mill, and sometimes this leads to changes which are not welcomed by all with equal enthusiasm. (The recent changes to the Game Finder with respect to tournaments is the most recent example.) Feedback prior to full rollout of such changes could smooth their entry into the world at large.

Specifics/Details:
  • Create a new forum called Proposals where new topics are created only by admins, describing future updates in detail. The community could then review and advise on these topics, hopefully casting light into areas not fully examined by those developing the updates.
  • This could either be a top-level forum of its own, or a subforum of Announcements, or even a sub-forum of Suggestions, since that area already draws the attention of those interested in such things.
  • This suggestion is in the same vein as Make CC API Updates Public, but goes further, as there are changes to the site that go beyond the API and affect more users than just scriptwrights.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Updates to the site will be met with fewer cries of anguish and outrage and more shouts of praise and gratitude, improving the mood of all and sundry.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby IcePack on Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:28 pm

+1, similar is recent large team tournament policy.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:29 pm

Interesting proposal, ender. While I like the idea, I feel this is already accomplished by implementing the update, then listening to the complaints of the community. I suppose this could theoretically save some time if the proposal is posted early enough in development, but can we really know the pros and cons without even experiencing the feature anyway?

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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby ender516 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:21 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:Interesting proposal, ender. While I like the idea, I feel this is already accomplished by implementing the update, then listening to the complaints of the community. I suppose this could theoretically save some time if the proposal is posted early enough in development, but can we really know the pros and cons without even experiencing the feature anyway?

-Sully

I think it would depend on the level of detail given in describing the update. The best case scenario would be a separate beta site for updates (beta.conquerclub.com), so new features could get hammered out before rolling them out to the community at large. If this is not possible, then maybe mockups of screen shots and a detailed procedural outline of how the new feature would work would be enough to help the community come up with informed opinions and feedback.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:25 pm

I support this suggestion. In my mind the Proposals forum would also be a subforum of this forum. Topics could be placed there in one of two ways. The first is that the web developer(s) has an idea about a particular site feature and posts the broad brush-strokes of it in Proposals well before it is implemented, and the community is permitted to review it and suggest modifications. The second is that upon admin approval, a topic could be moved from Submitted Suggestions to Proposals, which is essentially saying that the admin does want to implement that Submitted suggestion and so they are notifying us that it is on their to-do list. This would clarify a lot of the confusion regarding Submitted suggestions, because people are often mistaken and think that a submitted suggestion is one that will definitely be implemented at some point.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby ender516 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:12 am

Metsfanmax wrote:I support this suggestion. In my mind the Proposals forum would also be a subforum of this forum. Topics could be placed there in one of two ways. The first is that the web developer(s) has an idea about a particular site feature and posts the broad brush-strokes of it in Proposals well before it is implemented, and the community is permitted to review it and suggest modifications. The second is that upon admin approval, a topic could be moved from Submitted Suggestions to Proposals, which is essentially saying that the admin does want to implement that Submitted suggestion and so they are notifying us that it is on their to-do list. This would clarify a lot of the confusion regarding Submitted suggestions, because people are often mistaken and think that a submitted suggestion is one that will definitely be implemented at some point.

This does seem like a useful extension of my idea, especially when dealing with changes like Clickable Maps. I think the community would likely have had a lot to say if it had been revealed that the site version of Clickable Maps was to be so different from the well known script. I can imagine, though, that lackattack might be a little leery of a list of things "that will definitely be implemented at some point" as that gives users a ready-made list of things to whine about.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:56 am

ender516 wrote: I can imagine, though, that lackattack might be a little leery of a list of things "that will definitely be implemented at some point" as that gives users a ready-made list of things to whine about.


I suppose, but it is evident that they will whine regardless; this just displaces when, in time, the whining occurs. The upshot is that at least users won't be surprised when it finally is implemented, even if they're disgruntled about it. Part of the problem with regard to Clickable Maps (for example, people accidentally ending their phases or whatnot) could have been prevented had people been notified of the new mechanics well prior to them being implemented.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby chapcrap on Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:23 pm

Here, here. Hopefully we can get a little dialogue going.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby rishaed on Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:06 pm

+1 I like this idea. Not only, does it take away a reason for whining, it also allows the community to make tweaking suggestions that the mods, didn't see, but would be extremely helpful. Also, some people might be able to "help" from relative fields of experience, but do not have time to join TeamCC. It takes the whining out b/c if the people complain, they can't say that they didn't get to voice their opinion. I'm pretty sure that quite a few people use the RISK side of the site, but not the forum part. Basically speaking it eliminates the "Ignorance" complaint.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby ender516 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:03 am

Thanks, people, for resurrecting this suggestion. I had long forgotten about it, but with the change in management, we might see some changes like this.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:21 pm

I agree.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby rishaed on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:03 pm

Np, I think this is a good suggestion, and think it would provide more of an incentive for the community to get involved. Especially in the suggestion thread.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby agentcom on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:11 am

ender516 wrote:Concise description:
  • The Suggestions forum is a splendid method for incubating community-generated ideas to improve the site. However, not all site updates pass through this mill, and sometimes this leads to changes which are not welcomed by all with equal enthusiasm. (The recent changes to the Game Finder with respect to tournaments winning team in round limit games is the most recent example.) Feedback prior to full rollout of such changes could smooth their entry into the world at large.



Fixed. ;)

Hopefully, there will be more communication in advance of site updates in the future. This is a similar issue that the Foundry has with maps made "behind the scenes" that don't get community feedback. The general consensus over there is that these maps are not as polished as the publicly made maps. As a result, the current administration has stated that such development will no longer happen. I am not sure whether public development of site features will be beneficial in all cases. But it is important that more than a couple people look at all the details of an improvement before it goes live.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby rishaed on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:58 pm

agentcom wrote:
ender516 wrote:Concise description:
  • The Suggestions forum is a splendid method for incubating community-generated ideas to improve the site. However, not all site updates pass through this mill, and sometimes this leads to changes which are not welcomed by all with equal enthusiasm. (The recent changes to the Game Finder with respect to tournaments winning team in round limit games is the most recent example.) Feedback prior to full rollout of such changes could smooth their entry into the world at large.



Fixed. ;)

Hopefully, there will be more communication in advance of site updates in the future. This is a similar issue that the Foundry has with maps made "behind the scenes" that don't get community feedback. The general consensus over there is that these maps are not as polished as the publicly made maps. As a result, the current administration has stated that such development will no longer happen. I am not sure whether public development of site features will be beneficial in all cases. But it is important that more than a couple people look at all the details of an improvement before it goes live.

I agree with what's in color, however you won't know until you try it. . . :roll: I must clickable maps are a great help when I play from my iTouch though, I don't have to scroll on my tiny screen to try to make sure I have the right places when I attack.
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Re: Make Suggestions a two-way street

Postby rdsrds2120 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:01 am

I both love and fear this idea ;)

In one vein, it's be pretty awesome to get you all involved some more. More feedback, easier testing, etc.

At the same time, however, some updates (not many, just a few) have to be kept secret in advance so that everything's fair when they come out, or sometimes we have something in the works that for some reason can't or won't come to fruition. I'd like to promise things in the supposed proposals forum, but a single broken promise would counter the whole idea.

The recent Round Limits Fix that happened so abruptly won't be happening again. How about an in-between system: one that doesn't work super directly with the public, but still gives it more feedback: plan to have the Suggestions and Tech Moderators do troubleshooting and are able to give gathered feedback/given input on the Suggestion that's being implemented from what you guys have posted in these threads?

The problem with working with so many people in a straight feedback setting is the lack of bottlenecking, and sometimes the big picture tends to get lost in the details! Thoughts?

BMO
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