Three Kingdoms of China - v10.0 [2013-12-31] p22 GFX & XML

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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:55 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:I will take one final look at it tonight to and address skychaser's comments before stamping. Sound good Seamus?

That's perfect, just let me know what you come up with.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby The Bison King on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:18 pm

skychaser wrote:Well. Talking on gameplay. Don't we need more bonuses? Wei is surelly stronger, but at this map is the only one who's got easy bonuses.
Take Yang as an example. You must have 6 territories to get a +3 bonus, 6X3 = 18. So you must maybe conquer 18 territories to get a bonus +3. Which will pay itself in over 6 rounds Which means that in most absolute of the matches we will never have one of these territories being taken.


Shu has no bonuses except that unexperienced players of no card and fixed cards may try to take something.
Wei has only two bonuses we can account. Most people would take then given that they are dropped with most territories there. The central part of Wei is not that much of a bonus. You must defeat 27 armies to have a bonus of 5 and 666 borders to defend.

I think this map with virtually no bonuses tends a little to lesser action. Most people would never take nothing than the +1 bonuses and it's not something to make someone jealous or something.

I don't know if people agree to me but I would put a little bit of numbers to the bonuses, the +1 would become +2 and the +2 become +4. All the other with the addiction of 2.


I have 2 thoughts on this.

The first is the obvious solution break up some of the larger bonuses into smaller ones.

The second is a little different. You could scrap the +4 for all the capitals rule. I think that's a little bit of a tired convention and doesn't add much to the map anyway. With that rule scraped you could add a new rule. Something to the tune of +1 for any 3 territories within a kingdom held with the capital. This would make the larger bonus regions more of just a territory buffet. You wouldn't need the entire region to reap a reward so long as you have the capital. The actual territory bonus would probably only come into play at the end game (as it probably would already). This would also give the kingdoms more of a unified feel if holding the capital along with bonus regions was a reward in and of itself.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby The Bison King on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:20 pm

That being said I think Sky Chaser is over emphasizing the need for more obtainable bonuses. I can see 2 bonuses in the red region that could be easily held with 2 territories. You could probably have either of them within round 5. It may not need any serious adjustment.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Seamus76 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:22 pm

Thanks so much guys for the discussion and feedback, this is great stuff.

The Bison King wrote:That being said I think Sky Chaser is over emphasizing the need for more obtainable bonuses. I can see 2 bonuses in the red region that could be easily held with 2 territories. You could probably have either of them within round 5. It may not need any serious adjustment.

I agree as well. The bonuses have been pretty well examined and seem appropriate for the size of the map.

Also, the more I mull over your capital bonus thoughts the more I like it. There is nothing more I dislike than bonuses that don't get used, so something like this is more appealing. Would the capitals still start 3n or maybe go to 4n because of the new importance?

Nole, very much still interested in your thoughts.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby skychaser on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:18 pm

I didn't make myself clear so let me try again.

The bonuses aren't "hard" do obtain. I mean. Only that People go (in classic) for Australia cause it's easy to obtain and easy to protect. Very seldom one would go for such bonuses after round 3 however. A bonus obtainable by round 5 is a bonus that mostly doesn't exists at least at 6 players escalating(I don't know but I think it's the most played mode.

These bonus will very seldom be taken at escalating.
They will be still taken if it's played by 4 people or less.
They will be taken at Fixed cards and no cards.
They will be taken at escalating provided people are playing fog of war mode(my favorite).

Not ranting here. Just that I thought a slight more bonus would make more wars about these bonuses. I can't see however not many ways of winning in this map aside from turtling in clear escalating game.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby skychaser on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:22 pm

Or it may just be because i like bonuses the most even though I hardly get one any match.(I get a bonus in about 3% of my games in medium maps like this one).
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Graceless_ on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:03 am

Just wanted to say, awesome concept for a map. Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a great book.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Vlasov on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:08 am

Mongolia, perhaps?
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Seamus76 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:38 am

skychaser wrote:I didn't make myself clear so let me try again.

The bonuses aren't "hard" do obtain. I mean. Only that People go (in classic) for Australia cause it's easy to obtain and easy to protect. Very seldom one would go for such bonuses after round 3 however. A bonus obtainable by round 5 is a bonus that mostly doesn't exists at least at 6 players escalating(I don't know but I think it's the most played mode.

These bonus will very seldom be taken at escalating.
They will be still taken if it's played by 4 people or less.
They will be taken at Fixed cards and no cards.
They will be taken at escalating provided people are playing fog of war mode(my favorite).

Not ranting here. Just that I thought a slight more bonus would make more wars about these bonuses. I can't see however not many ways of winning in this map aside from turtling in clear escalating game.

I play a lot of no spoils dubs games so this is very helpful information, and I really appreciate you taking the time to post. I'm looking forward to playing everyone on the map once it's in beta. Nole was pretty instrumental in helping shape the current bonus structure so we'll see what his thoughts are, and I'll kind of go from there.

Benzorrr wrote:Just wanted to say, awesome concept for a map. Romance of the Three Kingdoms is a great book.

Thanks, I think it's going to be a pretty popular map, but we'll see.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby skychaser on Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:29 pm

Vlasov wrote:Mongolia, perhaps?

The mongolians lead by Genghis Khan invaded China a couple centuries later the age of the Three Kingdoms of this map.

He wouldn't stand a chance if Zhuge Liang would be alive at the period.

Genghis Khan founded the Yuan Dinasty(that lasted 1000 years), this map represents the batle of three other ones.

Wei is the clan of Cao Cao, later lead by Cao Pi, Shu Han by Liu Bei and later Liu Chan and the Wu by Sun Jian and his sons Sun Ce and Sun Quan.
After these battles the Sima's could unify the country and were defeated later by Ghenghis Khan.

Thus the mongolians are far from here.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby Vlasov on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:12 pm

Okay. Good history. The 3 Kingdoms of China get my vote!
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby iancanton on Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:17 am

if u increase the smallest bonuses from +1 to +2, then the kingdom superbonuses (and probably most other bonuses except the ones needing fewest regions) will be ignored.

ian. :)
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby sannemanrobinson on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:16 am

These two sound logical to me:
The Bison King wrote:The first is the obvious solution break up some of the larger bonuses into smaller ones.

The second is a little different. You could scrap the +4 for all the capitals rule. I think that's a little bit of a tired convention and doesn't add much to the map anyway. With that rule scraped you could add a new rule. Something to the tune of +1 for any 3 territories within a kingdom held with the capital. This would make the larger bonus regions more of just a territory buffet. You wouldn't need the entire region to reap a reward so long as you have the capital. The actual territory bonus would probably only come into play at the end game (as it probably would already). This would also give the kingdoms more of a unified feel if holding the capital along with bonus regions was a reward in and of itself.


Especially the +1 for 3 territories and capital is good.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby skychaser on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:34 am

Well. Back in the days having the capital and strong cities would be a mean of conquer. Having the capital would guarantee supplies to your armies. In fact any of the provinces and there were many, would have had a capital and that was the logical view so having the capital + regions at the same territory would be nice indeed as game play and as logical historical viewpoint.
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Re: Three Kingdoms of China - v4.1 [2013-01-29] p7

Postby squeaks_is_mine on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:07 pm

As a fan of Kessen 2, and the Dynasty Warriors/Tactics Series I am ecstatic to play this...and if anyone is able can they make a Metro Atlanta, GA Map? Would be much appreciated
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